AuthorTopic: dump time  (Read 30785 times)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #70 on: June 18, 2009, 04:36:50 am
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 04:40:35 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Helm

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Re: dump time

Reply #71 on: June 18, 2009, 11:27:29 am
All your characters suffer from the same symptoms. Let's look at your predator-type dude there.



Your art at this size over-relies to outlines, doesn't use lighting to separate the different parts of the anatomy of the character, and is quite pillow shaded. There is a disregard to how pixel clusters work together that is indicative of sloppy work or uninformed work.

Most of all your art needs disambiguation. I need to look at your robot dude and be able to tell what everything is, what is leg, what is arm, what is just armor plating and what is tech gismo. You need to simplify and you need to use the palette so the bits of the character that have priority pop out. Instead of thinking 'I WILL OUTLINE THESE PANTS' you should be thinking of each pant leg as a volume that takes priority over the things that are behind it. You don't need dark outlines to convey volumes, in fact if anything they hurt the volumes, you need a proper understanding of how simple geometrics are shaded under different light conditions, and then you need to wrestle with making your pixels convey this.

The problem is that you work at such a res where pixel concerns are very tightly intertwined with real life art skills you lack about how volumes work and lights work and anatomy and such. You're hiding one behind the other. A single pixel here is very powerful, and what you mostly do with them is band and hug your lineart. Take the predator dude for example, and draw a pencil sketch of him, as accurate and detailed as you can, sorta like reverse concept art. Do that and then we can look at where you're failing to convey him in pixels. If however, your pencil sketch predator suffers from the same problems as your pixel art does (bad volumes, anatomy, priority confusion, posture) then it might be time to accept that there are fundamental studies you should be doing, not so much wrestling with pixels, at this stage.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #72 on: June 20, 2009, 02:40:00 pm

Okay, I think Drei and I fixed most of the issues (Han Solo's just there for size comparison) but to be completely honest I didn't fully understand some parts of your post.

Offline Atnas

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Re: dump time

Reply #73 on: June 20, 2009, 05:28:41 pm
Well HOLY SHIT that's really drastic.

The light sources are inconsistent now. Really, though the new predator is more visually pleasing, by Spock's beard I do not think that is what Helm wanted you to get out of his critique. He looks really cool! But he is inconsistent with the other sprites. Not to mention any flipping will add to the confusion.

Much better anatomy, posture, and use of outline. But his whole contrast and lighting does not work with the other sprites. I suggest you apply what you learned when making him towards making another rendition with the same lighting as the other sprites. Also, because without the whole wacky lighting he is truthfully much better done, I think you'll want to go over your other sprites in the lineup.

Though honestly?

Quote
The problem is that you work at such a res where pixel concerns are very tightly intertwined with real life art skills you lack about how volumes work and lights work and anatomy and such. You're hiding one behind the other. A single pixel here is very powerful, and what you mostly do with them is band and hug your lineart. Take the predator dude for example, and draw a pencil sketch of him, as accurate and detailed as you can, sorta like reverse concept art. Do that and then we can look at where you're failing to convey him in pixels. If however, your pencil sketch predator suffers from the same problems as your pixel art does (bad volumes, anatomy, priority confusion, posture) then it might be time to accept that there are fundamental studies you should be doing, not so much wrestling with pixels, at this stage.

I saw the drawing you made of the predator guy on TIGSource and it's subject to all the flaws that Helm described. See, he suggested you do a detailed drawing. You drew a silhouette. Don't get me wrong, I'm merely inferring you drew him because of Helm's post. But I would assume anyone capable of doing so would be eager to draw all the juicy! happy! little mechanical parts and techy stuff.

I don't know why but this is something I've seen in nearly every thread you make. On Greaser guy you added heavy shadow to his face, concealing his features. On the run you made him turn into A BALL OF ENERGY. There's a consistent avoidance of specific things - namely the ones you aren't yet confident in rendering. It's better to fail than to not try at all, so lets see some awesome art from you!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #74 on: June 20, 2009, 05:47:19 pm
That was all on the robot dude right? Anyway, I'm going for a darker, more atmospheric look with his levels. Like he took out the lights. I have been trying a few different styles with this guy and this was just the one I liked best. Also the drawing, while I did do it because helm asked me to, was more of a test with how the style would look in a drawing. I will do a more detailed roboty one. So in that case, I will try a more detailed, consistent version of the robot for practice, but chances are I'll stick with this one.
Edit: also, all I'll have to do for flipping is switch the yellow and blue.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 06:47:01 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Helm

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Re: dump time

Reply #75 on: June 20, 2009, 11:44:04 pm
I hope you start dealing with fundamental issues soon and not eye candy because you might find yourself soon to be 25 years old or something and you still won't be able to draw human beings in believable situations and poses with any degree of confidence. Your pixel skills will be all flash and your animations super-tweened, but that'll just be hiding the elementary problems beneath the hood. It's happened to a lot of people.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #76 on: June 21, 2009, 01:06:59 am
I'm trying to but it takes time. I have been practicing and with these guys I tried to base them off human proportions in the most recent update.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #77 on: June 22, 2009, 04:30:40 pm

gonna work on some consistency issues now.

Offline Mathias

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Re: dump time

Reply #78 on: June 22, 2009, 08:06:19 pm
Consistency would be good. Neat chars, tuna.

That first Han Solo looking guy is totally different from the others.    EDIT*  Whoops, I failed to read you already stated he's just for reference.
Green bot looks much better with that highlight kolour.

Are there any mockups yet? You really oughta be advancing environments along with chars at the same time, things are bound to change as you go.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 02:52:05 am by Mathias »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: dump time

Reply #79 on: June 23, 2009, 01:30:47 am
han solo is just there for height reference, I didn't make him. Also I'm still considering how to do the environments. I'm leaning towards hand painted.