AuthorTopic: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ  (Read 25759 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #30 on: October 22, 2007, 05:12:00 pm
you know what's odd about the definition of selout?  The term is slowly shifting to redefine itself as "colored outlines", but helm and others insist keeping it in it's negative form.  Often times tutorials teach of the "good selout" - as defined by colored outlines.  Many people also refer to Kenneth's work for Selout.

If it wants to shift to something good, then why stop it?

Because if it all falls under the same term, we'll have to keep explaining the difference between 'good' and 'bad' versions of it endlessly.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #31 on: October 22, 2007, 06:23:16 pm
sure, but don't throw out colored outlines all together.  heck even my grunt uses it, but doesn't disregard form. (http://www.spriteart.com/indigo/images/art/pixelart/grunt_done.gif)

that's a perfect example of what i mean by creating contours using shapes and values.  You haven't outlined anything with clean single pixel lines, you've used smooth, attractive forms.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Indigo

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #32 on: October 22, 2007, 06:54:35 pm
are you kidding?  I almost never broke my 1 pixel colored line.  -It's only disguised by better rendering of forms within them.

zoom to see what I mean.


there are only a couple areas where i didn't and that's purely by mistake.


but to stay on-topic here, I'm having a bit of issues with the forearms.  in the pixel version as well as the paintover.  They seem much to large/ bulky - especially for a woman.  Hands also are a bit lacking.  You might want to look up some reference photos
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 06:59:15 pm by Indigo »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #33 on: October 22, 2007, 07:04:40 pm
lol, i already did, you can't just take the edge pixels and say that it's an outline, silly.  Maybe you aren't AWARE that you are employing better skills (which would disappoint me, to be honest), but you are showing them.  Every one of those shapes speaks to another nearby and is either continued or approached organically.  good treatment of contour and edge is not the same as colored outlines or selout, and your pixel has neither.  Your shapes are narrow, but they are shapes - not outlines.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Indigo

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #34 on: October 22, 2007, 07:12:46 pm
I'm taking this to PMs

Offline eghost

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #35 on: October 23, 2007, 05:17:47 am
Ok...I decided to "square one" this piece taking into account all the crits thus far...Spent about 5 minutes with a pen and a Post-It working up the tail into something I thought would flow a bit better and came up with this...

From there I scanned it in fiddled with it a bit and found that it didn't sit real well with the torso...So I reblocked the base parts of the piece, trying to pay especially close attention to the forearms and hands...They're only blocked in atm, but I think the size works a bit better...Also stumbled upon some interesting palette possibilities while I was rotating and scaling the tail sketch so that I could get it to work with the piece...
->->

After spending a lot of time reading and re-reading through the various posts in here I think I'm going to try to use shape and value to determine the outline...Probably a bit more of a skill stretch for me, but I'm all for learning...Thanks again for all the C&C...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 05:21:12 am by eghost »

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #36 on: October 23, 2007, 05:44:19 am
Sad you didn't make it for the contest. This was a lot better then any of th entries.
As for the new style, I don't got shit to say, though remember to make the black rubber shiney  :P That's important.
Oh yes naked women are beautiful
But I like shrimps more haha ;)

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #37 on: October 23, 2007, 06:24:17 am
The new shape is better definitely. Keep these things in mind: When someone is holding a weapon in a combat situation, especiallly a heavy one, their muscles are tense. Right now she's holding the thing like it's a dead weight, shoulders slumped and arms 90 degrees down. Give her a wider reach, tense muscles, and good, firm ghrasp on the rod end. Take a reference picture of you with a broom handle or something, you'll notice how different it is from what you drew. Also, the original had her holding the weapon too low, but at least at the right angle. She's not guarding right now, she's just holding a thing to pass along to her husband warrior and then go do the dishes and change the diapers on the snake-babies. You don't want to give off that vibe, make her pose determined!

Offline big brother

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #38 on: October 23, 2007, 03:01:51 pm
She's not guarding right now, she's just holding a thing to pass along to her husband warrior and then go do the dishes and change the diapers on the snake-babies.

I wish you hadn't said that -- now I really want to see the snake babies added to this picture!

As for the new shape of the coils, try adjusting the sprite in silhouette form. Does it still read, or at least look snake-like?

Here's an idea. Basically, if these shapes were filled in, the coils would still retain form and not look like a blob. There is fun stuff you can do compositionally to contrast the straight edges of the weapon with the curves of the character (although I didn't do much in this quick edit).


« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 03:18:27 pm by big brother »

Offline eghost

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Re: [WIP] Selout challenge from PJ

Reply #39 on: October 24, 2007, 05:38:53 am
*grins* I actually considered pixeling a snake baby but I didn't get a lot of time for pixeling today, guess I coulda done an egg though... :P
Though I did get some accomplished and here it is...

I'm feeling pretty good about the arm locations, though I am considering moving the left arm out some...

I definitely get what you mean about the shape contrast and while I am feeling better about the tail as it stands I see your point...Might fiddle around with it a bit more once I get down there...

Hopefully I'll get a bit more time to work on this tomorrow...Thanks again y'all...