AuthorTopic: GR#173 - Battlebackground - Gameart Scenery  (Read 5836 times)

Offline Johasu

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GR#173 - Battlebackground - Gameart Scenery

on: February 28, 2014, 06:37:07 pm

Been mashing my brains out on this.  I feel as if my bones and the floor are at a place I am comfortable with, but the walls are killing me!
Anyone have any advice on how I can bring these to a more detailed point while not stealing the show?
I want them to feel somewhat muted, but not simple blobs of color.
Of course as always I am willing to accept critique and advice on any part of this piece so if something can be improved... feel free to pipe in with advice.

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[Applied Mockup]
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 04:03:33 pm by Johasu »
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Offline Alp

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 07:04:38 pm
Eh, why not. I can mock up a quick example for ya'.
(I'm sitting on my arse, waiting to go to a funeral.)

Here's something quick, with some advice:
(Try to ignore my wonky colour selection.)


Don't be afraid to paint out your volumes directly, with a pixel brush, and go back and touch it up later. Try to create organic clusters, and just go with what "feels right". Looking at some photos will help you with this.

Your palette is a tad muddy-looking. You may want to improve those colours.

Offline Johasu

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 07:13:12 pm
Thank you for helping out.  [Sorry about the funeral]
What do you mean by "organic clusters"?  Are you saying to use clusters in the shape of the wall segments?
The setting is a cave near a river in which a tribe of primitive ape men reside. So I was going for like a wet sedimentary floor.  Like clay or hard packed sand.
I don't know how well I accomplished that.
Shouldn't I keep my wall a similar color to the floor?  Most cave images I find show very similar color ratios because the floor is basically made out of the wall in most cases.
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Offline Alp

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 07:39:01 pm
Thank you.
Yeah, that's what I mean. By organic clusters, I simply mean natural or realistic shape.
(I'm sorry if anything I say is not helpful/understood, English is not my native tongue.)

Oh? Is that what kind of cave, you were going for? Allow me to make another edit.

Yeah, the colours in a cave should generally be similar, but you should account for the light source, and reduction.  Below is another, more refined edit towards a clay cave, with some colour adjustments closer to your original palette. The floor and wall colour-ramps have been partially merged.



Note the thick ridges at the bottom of the wall. This is common in these types of caves. The wall details are also closer to what you were aiming for, so try to take some note from what I have done here.

Offline Johasu

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 10:37:51 pm

Trying this.  I was having a hard time getting grooves/recessions to look correct and ended up with a sort of boulder pile look.
Thoughts on how this looks.  I feel like maybe the wall is leaning a bit too yellow/green to match well with the floor so I will experiment with colors some too.  I think if I contrast the solid green masses with the shadows by taking the green more towards a gray I will it will pull it out a lot.

Conceptually?
Palette advice?
Is the shadowy area where the floor meets the wall readable or is it too flat?
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Offline Johasu

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 02:52:01 pm

Took this to a further level of detail.  I adjusted the palette some to pull some of the green out.
Thoughts?
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Offline Alp

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 06:27:26 pm
Well that works! Also, good job on improving the colour range.

Though on close inspection, you appear to have rings of banding in the shadows (Colour index 10 appears to be the culprit.), making things look a bit pillow-y. So you may want to break up the texture in the shadows a little more. Don't worry about  breaking up those lines, it will help improve the texture definition.

Offline Johasu

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 07:07:56 pm
Thank you for the compliment.
Can you explain what you mean by "color index 10" ?
I was struggling with pulling my stones outward or pushing them inward and giving them less of a uniform depth.
What I mean is: at first glance it seems okay to me, but when I think about the composition realistically, all of my rocks are piled up on a flat plane that doesn't really create any depth.
I've been toying a bit with this, but I haven't yet captured my goals.
Advice or ideas on how to adjust that are appreciated until I get a satisfactory edit ready to post.

Thanks again!
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Offline Alp

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 07:48:13 pm
A Colour Index Number, is the exact number out of 0-255, in your palette.
I think I may have been a little TOO specific, here! :lol:

To invert rocks inwards, what you want to do, is separate the rock using shadow, and apply somewhat heavier shading to the top of the rock, and have light to the bottom.

I have applied this, to your newest version on one of the rocks as an example. Try to ignore those smaller ones on the ground, I was just trying something out.

Offline Manupix

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Re: Monster Den [WIP] Advice on cave walls please.

Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 02:43:19 am
I have questions ;)

Is this a stand-alone piece, a mockup, a game background? Is there going to be something in the foreground, sprites or other?
Why the long narrow format? Is it part of a larger image?
I'm asking because unless there's a reason, the composition is not so good.

This will likely not read as a cave, because all we see in this narrow frame is a patch of ground and the base of a wall; there is no idea of an inner space surrounding these elements, no depth, darkness, mysterious passageways.
The frame is cut in two equal halves, and is mostly empty except for the piles of bones at both ends: the viewer's eye is lost, unguided and not knowing what to do with the empty space.

Again, unless reasons, I think you need to redefine all these major options before going on. Check references (lots!). Visit a cave if you can!

There will also arise the question of light. Caves are dark except near the entrance (and in that case the light is very specific); you'll have to define a light source that will likely appear in the image: explorer's torch, phosphorescent fungus, vampire eyes or whatever ;)
It won't read as underground if you shade it as you would a wall and floor in a building or outside, with low contrast, soft light and no shadows.