AuthorTopic: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...  (Read 144362 times)

Offline linx

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #180 on: January 16, 2010, 06:05:07 am
I'm waiting for that gun's fire animation  :D

Offline Howard Day

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hey, I'm a doofus.
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #181 on: January 17, 2010, 01:12:13 am
9_6: Key words: "So Far". :D
CrazyMLC:I'm actually considering having a "block" type shield. Simple power-recharge mechanic to make it interesting. That's make the bracelets the shield emitters. :D
Conceit: Thanks. I think I'm gonna stick with the less-realistic animation style I've got going now. Thanks for those walk/run refs, though - those are in fact hugely helpful. as for the guy's face - I need to re-do that anyway. it was based off a rather crappy reference, and I know I can do better.
Stratto: Yeah, I'm still playing with the legs. haven't come up with anything noteworthy yet, though.
Stab: Thanks - glad I was able to convince you. Now to convince everyone else!
Gil: That is...extremely interesting. I hadn't considered that idea, but it's definitely one I'm going to have to. Would be a really neat gameplay mechanic!
CrazyMLC: Yes! I'm working on fixing that - I'm making the arms slightly brighter and more steel-gray. hope to update that shortly.
Konrad : Right now everything I'm making is designed and formatted for the PSP.
big brother: YES! Thank you, thank you, thank you. That is exactly the problem. Hopefully fixed in the next update!
linx: still playing around, but I'll have something to show soon.

Now for something slightly different!
http://www.hedfiles.net/AE/index.html
IT MOVES! Hit "a" to turn the logo on and off.

Thoughts?

Offline Pawige

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Noisy Sanctum

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #182 on: January 17, 2010, 03:16:36 am
Bloody lovely!! The gorilla's animation and design looks much better in motion and on the background. One thing I think that might help is slice the farthest background up into a few pieces and scroll them very very slowly. At the moment it still seems a bit flat.

 |
\ /  Uhhh... What?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 03:38:29 am by Pawige »

Offline Stab

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I'M WILLOWS!
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #183 on: January 17, 2010, 03:35:43 am
Perhaps not the best place to initiate a discussion (or, more appropriately, "rant"), but it is relevant to what's going on here... an' pixelation is one of the few hidey-holes on the internet where you can pose your thoughts and have reasonable hope for an informed reply!

So, I begin.

How much does it matter?

In this case, the "it" is the feeling of weight of the gorilla. In the context of the game, how much does it matter? The animation, as is, looks... well, like a gorilla running. it doesn't necessarily look like a slaughterous, 900 pound cyborg primate feline, it doesn't necessarily project each of our specific images for what it -should- look like*... but at the end of the day, in the context of the game, it -is- emitting a mood and seems to be performing the actions it is supposed to be performing.

It is/was also being judged primarily (by myself, at least) as a stand-alone animation, without regard for the context it was in. If/when it is seen in its home context, I have a hard time believing the already small errors of weight in animation will be all that easy to pick out, or noticeable... especially considering the player will likely have more important things to worry about, such as robots shooting LASERS at his FACE.

This is my opinion, though. I was raised and have always taught myself in a more or less absolute, black-OR-white yes OR no sort of way. The reason I'm raising my voice here is because there's quite a few minds (helm-who-must-not-be-named ( :P ), NDChristie and/or Adarias (I still fight with your name change!) would be the two most vocal) who comment upon and point out the merits of subtlety in game design and art in general. I've never outright disagreed with that notion, but there are times when I struggle to see its strength, and times where I see the pursuit of subtlety be damaging to the process in general.

Off on a bit of a tangent, here, but I'm sure I'll work my way back to... uhh... somewhere.

"It's the little things that count" is a saying that comes to mind. I don't disagree with that saying. It is one that popped up occasionally in my formal education, and every time I heard it I could think of examples where it rings true. Take the entire "knytt" series as a shining example. There's a ton of subtle environmental interaction and sound effects and... things that all wonderfully support the main theme of the game. Most of 'em you don't even consciously register until you realise that it's the subtle things that are sucking you in, and start looking for 'em. It works brilliantly, and why it works brilliantly, I think, is directly connected to a saying that was welded to my chest by my formal education.

"YOU'RE POLISHING THE TURD". The reason "knytt" works so well is because its core is solid. The concepts, gameplay, and progression all work, and all the little subtle things compliment the fact that the core is solid, and make the whole game enjoyable (for some). To get away from the game theme, and back to why/how I find focus on subtlties to be detrimental to the whole process is this: Often, I find myself (and other artists) focussing on something that essentially amounts to "polishing the turd" (NOT YOU, HOWARD DAY! I'm off on a tangent, just needed to clarify that this does not pertain to your work!). For 'zample, how often have we seen (and done!) someone working really hard on a human face, trying to convey this precise emotion, drawing and redrawing and redrawing the smile and CURSING THE SKIES BECAUSE THIS FRIGGIN PORTRAIT ASDFFFFFFFF... only to have someone walk in and mention "Hey, your perspective / proportions are off!"

Same thing goes for people attempting to draw drapery over volumes they don't understand. Adding the interaction of subtlety over a core that is broken is only going to result in it being shiny poo.

I think I did that thing where i answered my own quesiton. Lemme check. Yep!

Subtlety matters, but the biggest thing to remember is that subtlety adds, not masks.

HOW this relates back to the topic and subject and whatnot (Kay, Howard. This is you again!) is that either our, the critic's view of the core is bustigated, meaning we don't know something he does that makes it work... OR the core of the beast is bustigated, meaning it is not designed or constructed in a manner that makes sense or reads correctly to the viewer.

Personally, after a bit of observation, I'm opting for the latter. Unless the character is redesigned in a way that supports more believable subtle motion (Primarily, I think, the allowance of shoulder motion would do wonders. I'm not too sold on the rotating disc shoulder joint, as it doesn't allow for much chest rise/fall on impact, and I feel that a lot of the weight in four-legged creatures of this nature is shown by the shoulderblade breaking the contour of the back/neck.)

OF COURSE, that is just criticism in the context of Howard Day's pursuit of believable animation as an artist. I don't have any criticism for the animation in the context of the game, as I think it works well now, and adding anything further to it will excessively complicate matters without reaaaaaaaaally adding that much.

This post was something of an experiment. Thanks for allowing me to let my train of thought do a couple laps around the mountain!

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #184 on: January 17, 2010, 11:52:39 am
Its all moving a bit fast, if the spider bot was walking at it's speed and the gorilla at its, they would just smack into eachother.

The background is really nice but maybe you should make it a tad larger, so it can also scroll slightly.

A nice effect you could add is a slightly jerky motion with the camera, like every time the gorilla takes a leap forward the camera jumps forward, you know? Just a little subtle effect like that would help a lot.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:54:11 am by CrazyMLC »

Offline Howard Day

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hey, I'm a doofus.
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #185 on: January 17, 2010, 04:37:58 pm
Pawige: Good call! I broke up the background and added a bit of atmospheric haze while I was at it.
Stab: Sweet god man. :D Thanks for the...support? I do greatly appreciate all the feedback I've been getting. I think it's made te whole thing WAY better, so keep it coming!
CrazyMLC: Well, I am gonna give this guy a normal walk animation, this is more of a sprint. I already split up the background - the link should be updated.

http://www.hedfiles.net/AE/index.html
Updates: The monkeys got new fur, new animation, and the background is now far more dynamic.
Here's the new ape anim:

And the first run on the gun animation - both walking loop, and firing animation.


Thoughts?

Offline Stab

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I'M WILLOWS!
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #186 on: January 18, 2010, 12:50:51 am
I don't think the off-timed double barrel recoil is helping you much, if any.

Also, I think it'd probably be wise to stick some sort of recoil absorption method on the pivot, so the character doesn't rip his own shoulder off every time he fires. Exaggerated and too powerful, but an edit:

http://megaswf.com/view/9ca90f9d0cd1dbd1540cea733cbfdd8d.html

Ehh, or maybe the double barrel recoil is cool. Iunno.

http://megaswf.com/view/59222dc505cd9e974b2d0de77581be2d.html
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 01:06:43 am by Stab »

Offline sculptedpixel

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • abusing pixels since 1989
    • View Profile
    • sculptedpixel.org

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #187 on: January 18, 2010, 02:06:17 am
Nice Howard, really nice.  I like the recoil-effect on the weapon;  the orange thing below screams laser-targeting system to me ;)  Perhaps if you offset the barrel's recoil more - so it was bang / BANG - a few more frames between the two barrels firing / recoiling...

The fur is nice - I think that will stand out a lot better against your BG elements.  I think there should be some more hip rotation resulting in some up/down motion on the hips as he plants and pushes off w/ his feet - something to consider.  Perhaps some more specular highlighting  - it's a tad dark in your processing build linked above; hair at this scale is hard to duplicate though - and should be anistropic if shiny.....  hrm. 

What AA & rendering engine are you using for these?  Scanline?  I gotta say, the antennae thingies aren't my cup of tea, but they help convey the motion - I'm curious to see if they'll get lost with the cannon up on his shoulder or what.

KEEP IT COMING :) 
"If you canít beat them, arrange to have them beaten." ó George Carlin

Offline Howard Day

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hey, I'm a doofus.
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #188 on: January 18, 2010, 03:05:59 am
Update - made the muzzle flash more ferocious, and added some recoil.

Offline Howard Day

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hey, I'm a doofus.
    • View Profile

Re: Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

Reply #189 on: January 21, 2010, 10:16:47 am
So, yes - still working on this, after being delayed intermittently by apartment floods, buying a new house (TIMING!) and virus infected jumpdrives and work computers. Joy. Anyhow, I started working on the intro sequence - not a whole lot of gameplay here, but lots of pretty. Here are two shots from the intro.

That's the scoutship approaching Eden - just before it's shot down. And yes...those *are* a pair of DualShokCannons strapped to the nose of that thing! Now we know where that big-ass gun comes from!