AuthorTopic: GR#007 Yeti Project - Sprite Development  (Read 42317 times)

Offline 8bitty

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #50 on: August 13, 2009, 08:47:37 pm
very nice edit helm. evileye take some points from that edit, it is by far the most pleasing to the eyes. you need to work on colour values as the piece looks quite bland as it is. contrast. i also like helms pieces of fur that are coming off.

Offline Opacus

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #51 on: August 13, 2009, 09:03:04 pm
Okay. Show you something of similair or better quality of something done within an hour.
Did you even read Nd's post?

Yep.

Quote
I'll post the link again:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/15981.htm#

Yes I saw it when helm posted it in the creativity thread.

And as I told helm, that is a fairly simple piece and certainly doable within an hour.

Maybe I should have explained it a bit more?

*Note I am not trying to rag on helm here, and I am not saying its a bad piece*

But:

1. The pose is very simple. No wild perspective, Nothing that pushes the limits of pixel art in any way.

2. Mostly 90 or 45 degree angles on the body, which are easy to do.

3. The creature is not based on anything that we are too familiar with, so none of the features have to be very correct. I.e. He can have upper arms that are bigger then the foream and noone will really notice. Same with the head and other parts.

4. Very little muscle definition on the fur, makes for much easier work.

5. No fingers or toes, helm cheated a bit IMO and just wrapped them up and hid them.

6. Lighting is actually pretty sparse, there are some parts that should have a lot better lighting but don't. Again, probably because it was done in an hour.

actually helm agreed with me that it was simpler then the piece I was attempting.

1: No, the pose is not very amazing, I'll give you that. But it serves it's purpose. I like the pose of your yeti more, though.

2: That's a common technique. Since 90 and 45 degree angles don't require AA, it can often make pixel art look better [You can't screw up on the AA after all] and also reduces the work load a bit.
You don't need complicated lines to make something look better. Why complicate things when it looks just as good with a simpler aproach?

3: It IS based on a real creature. It's simply a gorilla with the head of a manta ray. Unlike a Yeti, which is pretty much based on nothing. Though I'd say yours has something of a gorilla.

4: That's actually a big problem in your yeti: He shouldn't have so much muscle definition. The muscles obscure the fur texture, and make him look more like a shiny bodybuilder.

5: Your yeti's toes aren't very prominent either. In fact, especially those on the front arm don't work that well. The whole hand looks a bit seperated from the arm.

6: There isn't alot of lighting. So? That's just a matter of preference. Helm chose to do so so his glowing eyes would be more prominent, and he'd get and overall more menacing look. [That's my interpetation anyway]
The lighting on your yeti is a bit TOO prominent. Fur doesn't glow that much, unless he just got out of the water or something.

I made a colour edit here, maybe it's a bit too extreme, but bear with me here.


I really toned down the contrast. I think it's nescassery here though.
Fur just doesn't glow like that. I also got rid of those strange stray pixels you had going on here.
[Yes, I also think Helm's colour edit is still too high contrast. Too shiny.]

Quote
Very few people have offered any real advice ( except for the edits at the top of this thread ). A lot of the "advice" offered is just arm-chair pixeling and thinly veiled insults.
If you are truly interested Opacus, and if helm doesn't mind, I can point out the flaws in his piece and explain why I don't think its at a similar level to the one I did. I'm sure that would stoke the fires of hell some more, but hey :lol: That is, if your really curious and not just saying this to argue.

No, I'm not here to argue.

Helm's has flaws. Sure it does. But yours also has flaws. It ain't any more perfect than Helm's is.
It's very nice, certainly, but it still has issues.

And I think you just did pretty much point out what you think is wrong with it, right above here, ey?

Quote
Say hello to your seeing-eye dog for me.

Let's keep it civil here please. That's uncalled for.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 09:21:30 pm by Opacus »

Offline Froli

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #52 on: August 13, 2009, 09:09:03 pm
Evileye, you are becoming full of yourself. It's like everyone's post doesn't matter and your ego is getting ahead of you. You are like one of those posters in the past that has gotten banned because of the similar attitude.

And I agree with opacus that helms gorilla mantaray is better.

Btw, the texture of your last rendition of your yeti more like ice/icicles rather than fur.

maybe this artwork by  BigBrother could help.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/41947.htm
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 09:14:45 pm by Froli »

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #53 on: August 13, 2009, 09:23:16 pm
That's a very pleasing color edit, Opacus. Looking at it I agree mine is too high contrast... there's something to be said about using a selection from the whole value range to an aesthetic result, sometimes i'm so preoccupied with 'covering my bases' I forget that. Stoven also does what you did in his pieces quite masterfully. I think it comes from SNES-type art initially? (I mean the impulse to shelft the values, not that it's not noticed in other art besides SNES stuff, heh)

Offline big brother

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #54 on: August 13, 2009, 10:36:55 pm
Froli: don't drag me into this! :)

I like Opacus' color edit, though I believe it unnecessarily flattens the sprite. A high-contrast character may look out of place when we critique it specifically, but stronger colors will help it read against a background (since I'm assuming this is intended to function on a game register and not just as "pixel art," right?). I would suggest darkening the hindquarters so the arm and head really pop out in front. Darkening the shadow beneath the leading arm and under the jaw would also be a good idea. With higher contrast on its face, it will be easier for a viewer to identify it, an issue inherent when drawing imaginary creatures. It will also help heighten the yeti's expression and inject more personality into the character.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #55 on: August 13, 2009, 11:35:01 pm
Oh, about colors and fur texture, perhaps this edit will help:



This took about 15 minutes, if that interests you.

See now that's what I was talking about. That is a good edit helm. The colors for sure, some of the body work is so-so, but it does give me some ideas. I'll try to put some fur on his other body parts.

That shadow under the chin shouldn't really be there, but it does bring out the face.

I guess I should have messed with the colors a little :blind:

Quote
edit: 'lowlevel' I mean as in dealing with 'low' CG, art that is meant to be displayed at small resolutions, few colors etc, I didn't mean low as in qualifer.

K. Fair enough.

I made a colour edit here, maybe it's a bit too extreme, but bear with me here.


I think your version is a bit too desaturated. Maybe the correct values would be between yours and helms.

Froli: don't drag me into this! :)

I like Opacus' color edit, though I believe it unnecessarily flattens the sprite. A high-contrast character may look out of place when we critique it specifically, but stronger colors will help it read against a background (since I'm assuming this is intended to function on a game register and not just as "pixel art," right?). I would suggest darkening the hindquarters so the arm and head really pop out in front. Darkening the shadow beneath the leading arm and under the jaw would also be a good idea. With higher contrast on its face, it will be easier for a viewer to identify it, an issue inherent when drawing imaginary creatures. It will also help heighten the yeti's expression and inject more personality into the character.

Yes it is for a game. Thanks for the advice.

Well in light of getting some edits I will have to do some more work on this :yell: Thought I was done.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 07:20:08 pm by EvilEye »

Offline D~Dawg

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #56 on: August 13, 2009, 11:45:11 pm
So...Are you done or what?

Actual Critique:
The shadow under the chin --however-- brings out that he has a neck. :-\

Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #57 on: August 14, 2009, 07:35:20 am
Well, the only reason I decided to butt into this thread is because I really like Dekutree's effort. With a bit of refinements on the outline, so it also works against a dark background, his Yeti would be a great "boss sprite". :)
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Chris2balls

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #58 on: August 14, 2009, 09:00:43 pm
I think the furriness could be brought out moreso in Helm's edit by adding some sort of AA like this, but I don't think this'll work on a dark background.
And I agree that there should be a version between Opacus's and Helm's colour edit and with what bigbrother explained. I'm eager to see more.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 10:00:10 am by Chris2balls »
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Offline st0ven

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Re: [WIP] The Yeti project

Reply #59 on: August 15, 2009, 03:04:51 am
Ive read the thread thoroughly enough to follow what has been going on - i was really curious by the proposition of being able to make such a pixel piece rival that of the scaled down cg version.


 - initial block in and shape stage, id say about 30 minutes at this point to get here

i got home and was able to continue


 - adding more form and lighting details - fleshing out some fur texture in choice area. this took me out about another 25 minutes. Far from perfect - but i think from this stage, working on a deadline you could easily have this wrapped up in another 30 miinutes. it should be pretty near pixel perfect in 60 - arguably should rival the original piece in both form and detail as well.

I do think that there was a lot of frustration shown in this piece and i think this came mostly from an unsurety of form / anatomy - Ive read helms take on the situation and while i mildly do agree there seems to be a workflow issue here i think the main conflict is some insecurity over the form. for some reason this is less of an issue for your CG piece, but in the end i think that your pixel piece came out with more interesting shape and structure and i have to wonder if it is because there was more deliberate thought put into the piece in that medium.

I can say that i could generally relate to the frustrations shown in this piece because i will rightfully admit, i still go through this when drawing things particularly that ive had little exposure to in the past. One thing ive really found to help is sketching - all the time. different forms and subject matters. i cant lecture anyone on what they will discover but i can notice a very large difference in my understanding of form and shape in just a few short months of serious study.

I really enjoy this thread because it gives us things to talk about - some personal arguing aside (feels like the pixelation i used to know and love, heh) i think the subject matter is one of the more meaningful ones to be found around here in a while. I think these things should be questioned, in the end, many different people throw in their hand in the discussion and add their artistic pieces into the fold of discussion and it becomes a true community experience. Many people walk away from threads like these with a lot more to think about than the usual0 'help me' post (honestly, nothing against them at all, just want to see more of these types too).

I hope the discussion doesnt die out!

Oh i have almost forgot - i made a quick video of some timelapse progress from midpoint to end point (at least the hour long end point). uploaded the video for you lads to view if you find it curious.

www.spriteart.com/edit/ape_avi.avi