Some characters

[cels]

That's a good tip but I think most Sierra and Lucas Arts adventure games have a style that is too cartoony for what I'm going for. I suppose that's why Flashback has blank faces - to avoid something cartoony. I'm just trying to see how much detail I can add before it looks like Leisure Suit Larry or something. 

I've started on some more characters to fill up my time between tasks. Sans umbrella this time. Cheeky bastards.

[fskn]

You've been killin' it with these characters. Nice job.

[SeinRuhe]

Hey those look really nice and you got rid of the umbrella diet which is good, next concept I want to introduce you is the center of balance.

Pretty much hang a pendulum from the chin of the characters to the ground, this will give you a visual cue of the current state of balance of a standing position, in this case I'll use the Poet (Bard who left his instrument at home?) to demonstrate. In this case the balance point seems to be leaning forward a bit too much, you can either move the torso a bit to the back to compensate or open the leg to our left a bit so it supports better the weight of the body (Or adjust the entire pose if you are feeling like it)



For dynamic poses this method won't work, in that case is a bit harder and less intuitive since you will have to calculate the weight, the counterweight and the point where those weights are supported, If you wanna dig into that I'd suggest making a ballerina, they do amazing poses to keep the body in balance!

I really dig the face of the male blacksmith, looks detailed yet simple, seems just like what you are aiming to! I did tried to put some extra effort on the face of the poet although not sure if it is an entire success. Also, you really should try to do hands, most of the time having all the fingers but the thumb merged works well as long as you draw at least 2 planes for the merged blob.

Again, hope this helps and this time I really want to see you implement the suggestions before submitting! *gun cocks slowly*

[fskn]

Great tips from SeinRuhe as usual.

As I can't help myself, I did something too. Sorry, I just love dabbing with these characters you come up with...



Not really any corrections, I know they're just past the initial rough stage... But his head looked way too long for me. Could be a stylistic choice, though.

And you know what? I really like those dark, black areas on every character. Especially on the blacksmith and the girl with the hammer (also a blacksmith?)
Lovely detail with the hammer on the guy's chest.

[cels]

Hey those look really nice and you got rid of the umbrella diet which is good, next concept I want to introduce you is the center of balance.

Pretty much hang a pendulum from the chin of the characters to the ground, this will give you a visual cue of the current state of balance of a standing position, in this case I'll use the Poet (Bard who left his instrument at home?) to demonstrate. In this case the balance point seems to be leaning forward a bit too much, you can either move the torso a bit to the back to compensate or open the leg to our left a bit so it supports better the weight of the body (Or adjust the entire pose if you are feeling like it)



For dynamic poses this method won't work, in that case is a bit harder and less intuitive since you will have to calculate the weight, the counterweight and the point where those weights are supported, If you wanna dig into that I'd suggest making a ballerina, they do amazing poses to keep the body in balance!

I really dig the face of the male blacksmith, looks detailed yet simple, seems just like what you are aiming to! I did tried to put some extra effort on the face of the poet although not sure if it is an entire success. Also, you really should try to do hands, most of the time having all the fingers but the thumb merged works well as long as you draw at least 2 planes for the merged blob.

Again, hope this helps and this time I really want to see you implement the suggestions before submitting! *gun cocks slowly*

First of all, that is super helpful! Thanks for taking the time to write a pedagogical explanation. It's useful to have those principles in mind when I'm imitating references, to make sure I'm accurately reproducing the stance / posture. Secondly, great edit! I like the changes you made to the face, I'm just playing around with that minimalistic balance. I don't want to add too much AA or isolated pixels that will be hard to keep track of if I ever try to animate these characters. I actually was planning to do hands this time (honest), I just hadn't got that far yet.

The two people on the left are supposed to be masons and the people on the right are supposed to be sailors... on airships (I don't know what kind of clothes they'd wear but I went for this). And I'm trying to emulate mostly 1100-1300 era continental European clothing, combined with a few other elements to keep it interesting. So the fur coat is inspired by late 16th century, but I'm still trying to avoid the balloon pants of the 16th century that you added (which look great, just a bit too modern for what I had in mind). It's weird to be so specific about a project that only half a dozen people will ever see, but there you go. Gotta get it right in case Netflix calls, you know?

Great tips from SeinRuhe as usual.

As I can't help myself, I did something too. Sorry, I just love dabbing with these characters you come up with...



Not really any corrections, I know they're just past the initial rough stage... But his head looked way too long for me. Could be a stylistic choice, though.

And you know what? I really like those dark, black areas on every character. Especially on the blacksmith and the girl with the hammer (also a blacksmith?)
Lovely detail with the hammer on the guy's chest.

Thanks man! I appreciate you tinkering around with and improving my designs. Fair point about the head, it looked too cartoony. Yours looks good but I'm seeing if I can have many different types of faces as well. How does the new compromise look to you?

I'm very glad that you mentioned the black areas because I kind of like them too. It started out as a simple way to ensure I had enough contrast and I figured I'd replace black with other dark shades later but now I'm wondering if I should stick with it. If not pure black, then something very close. Because I do think it makes them pop and forces me to work with higher contrast than I usually do. It reminds me of certain types of comic books or games like Hades.

Me: I don't want to make the faces too cartoony. I want more realism.
Also me: Ah, this black shade looks great. Reminds me of comic boo.... fuck.



Here's the latest version, still WIP and many unfinished parts all over the place.



All kinds of feedback welcome. Does the chrome effect on the hammers work at all?

[fskn]

Hmm... I can tell the shape of the guy's hammer, being that's in a profile and easy to read, but the girl's is hard to tell what's going on, if it's head is turned away from us or...what.

Everything else looks pretty neat to my eyes. I would only think about changing the left arm of the blacksm... mason guy (xD) if that bucket isn't supposed to be empty. It would be cool to show some weight if it isn't.

The other day I ended up making more face options for your peasant woman, maybe some of it could be useful for you some day, not necessarily for her, of course.



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EDIT: On the mason's right arm... shouldn't these colors be reversed? Brighter shade on top, darker on the bottom?

[cels]

Thanks, fskn!
- Not sure what to do about the hammer. I wonder if I should leave it like this. I mean, it's quite small and it's not at a right angle so I can't make it a perfect rectangle and make it look crisp. Maybe it's enough to let people see that it's a hammer and leave some room for imagination? Not sure. I'm open minded about this.

- I hope the stonemason's pose shows a little bit of weight already, I just didn't want it to look like he was struggling. After all, he's a burly blacksmith mason. By the way, I tried to improve the shading on the chest a little, as I noticed you had done in your edit. I just forgot to fix that before.  However, it's really difficult to add shadow to his pecs without resulting in banding.



- Thanks for the study of peasant woman faces! It's definitely useful. The question is, if the goal is to make her look like a young and attractive woman: which woman would you want to hook up with? I think maybe B (pouty lips ftw) or E. Not sure. The single pixel eyes are kind of scary, like a predator's eyes. Peasant woman C looks like the kind of woman who kills her lovers and eats them.

- Good point about the right arm!

Added a ginger inuit guy, exploring the frozen wastes with his torch. Really not sure about the shading on this one, I couldn't find good references. And maybe I picked a bad reference, I just wanted someone who didn't look like they were walking in the park.

[fskn]

Haha! Aw, I'm a bit partial about C and D myself. But that could mean that I'm an easy target for women that eat their partners. xD

Anyways! The thing about the arm of the stone mason dude that's holding the bucket is that he may get tired (no pun intended) very quickly of holding it like that. The guy from your ref. photo is resting that tire against his butt/leg a bit and, well, he's posing for a photo...
That's a very nitpicky thing, though, and definitely not a complaint.

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I did some experiments. See if you like any of them:





Your inuit guy looks noice!
I'm not sure, but maybe you could make the light of the flame go over his right leg and boot too (a little more over his boot than what you got there now).

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to add the blue "band" around the arm of the mason. But you get the idea.

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EDIT2: Perhaps she "needs" to rest that big sledgehammer on her shoulder:



EDIT 3 (aka: getting too carried away)

I think the back of her hand that's resting on her hips should be lighter than the fingers:

[cels]

You're among friends here, fskn. Nobody minds your vorarephilia. 

Your version of the sledge definitely looks better and has more readability, thanks! The fist on her hips looks properly lighted, but I just can't imagine anyone placing a closed fist on their hips. Maybe my joints are simply too stiff. I made her put an open hand on her hip. Hopefully it looks ok. Also put the sledge down on her shoulders, finally!

I figured it would be kosher to do a burly photo session pose but I really like the way you pixelled that vertical arm and the bucket itself. Banding is a real issue at this scale, of course, and I'm not sure how to avoid it in cases like that. But more importantly, wouldn't the bucket be hitting the knee unless he twisted his torso or put one leg further back? I tried to have a go, let me know what you think.

Thanks again for the help!

I also keep adding new characters instead of finishing the first ones or actually studying anatomy, posture and gestures like I'm supposed to.  Because I'm a terrible person.

[fskn]

The fist on her hips looks properly lighted, but I just can't imagine anyone placing a closed fist on their hips.

Umm... I'm not sure I follow you here. I didn't exactly mean to have her with a closed fist, more something like this (please excuse the half-assedness... and the stubby fingers. :p):



EDIT- But I guess you're right, the fingers shouldn't be too dark, as the light comes not from straight above, but a little bit from the front of her body. So at least the same amount of light as the forearm. And the forehead.

But more importantly, wouldn't the bucket be hitting the knee unless he twisted his torso or put one leg further back? I tried to have a go, let me know what you think.

Yeah... Maybe... I think it could be touching his knee.
Both look fine, though, to my eyes. I didn't want to put that leg back (or try to imply that) because I was afraid it might look like he could lose his balance.