Am I going crazy here?

[ptoing]

Alex is simply saying "hue shifting" is the knee-jerk reaction bad artists have to "oh my god, what color would be best here?" I think he's trying to say we shouldn't even have the term hue-shifting, because it teaches new artists that simply sliding the hue over to the left or the right will produce good color selections for us, when that's obviously not true. He's saying to learn how colors actually work, instead of relying on cheap tricks. I agree that hue-shifting IS used as a cheap trick a lot of the time, with bad results. I see the advice posted here constantly, by artists who don't know any better. "Hey, your drawing looks dull. You should make all the shadows purple! That's called hue-shifting! If the object's brighter, make it more yellow, instead!" Half the time, that advice makes absolutely no sense, hence (from what I gather), Alex's aversion to using the term at all.

Any practise can be used badly, does not devalue the term. And yes, you are right, there are times when generic and bad advice is given here as well, tho I have not seen that bit of advice in a while now. A lot of this I feel comes from stuff like the Seiken Densetus 3 trees and similar game stuff. Hue shifting can work, and given that is is so easy in pixelart to manipulate the palette it is a term that makes sense as well. How someone ends up using it has nothing to do with whether the term is valid in what it conveys. That's really is all there is to say to whether the term should be used or not.

[AlexHW]

But what is hueshifting? The term doesn't really represent color truthfully because you're removing the understanding involved with how color and light function, which is fine, but it doesn't seem appropriate for critique about colors(see my point?). If there is a problem about color, you shouldn't use a term that blankets the understanding of color. All that does by suggesting it is enforce a practice that doesn't promote an educated foundation involving light/color. Hueshifting describes a practice, not an understanding. We're not here to force everyone to create art the same way(at least I'm not).

[ptoing]

Neither am I. Hue is the part of the colour minus the shade, the pure colour if you will. And I think that the term is useful to say things like "The hueshifting on those trees is a bit excessive, maybe tone that down." or "Seeing as this is supposed to be set in bright daylight, maybe hueshift the shadows toward blue a bit to represent reflected light from the sky." The latter one is a bit long and could be put shorter, yes, but for the former hueshifting is a good and short term and people generally will understand what you mean by it.

What I would agree with, and I think you do too, is that hueshifting can more or less be put in a box with things like selout, as in they are both things which are used too much and often by people who just start out with pixelart and do not know too much about pixelart or art in general.

[AlexHW]

Color doesn't involve shade. It's a misconception to think it does. Color and hue represent the same phenomenon when you understand how Chroma fits into the equation. Chroma describes the colorfulness(how intense the hue is), and it is dependent upon how light interacts with matter(how the spectrum becomes bent). Luminance is the scale of brightness or directness of the light which produces the shades between light and dark.

When you refer to "The hueshifting on those trees is a bit excessive, maybe tone that down.".. What does that mean?.. The hues are shifting too quickly?.. the hues' intensity too conflicting?.. there is too many adjustments to the hues happening?.. Just saying that that the hueshifting is a bit excessive is a bit vague- It's like saying that the hues are too colorful or the shades are too shaded or something. It's better to go to the base of the issues.

[ptoing]

Lightness (which also results in shades) is part of what makes colour. I am not gonna discuss semantics with you here. What I am saying is that most people familiar with the term hue shifting as used in the pixel art scene will get what someone would mean by "the hue-shifting is a bit excessive." It might be a vague statement, but it is not something that is totally stupid like "the shades are too shaded."

Anyway, last thing from me on this.

[AlexHW]

Lightness has shades but color is not a shaded characteristic in the same sense that brightness is. Color is simply a characteristic of how light bends. Darkness and lightness have nothing to do with the hue/color.
And yes, saying that the hueshifting is a bit excessive is essentially saying that the colors in the image are too colorful. Simple as that because you haven't really proven it otherwise. Try understanding color a bit more and you may see what I'm saying.

[rikfuzz]

When you refer to "The hueshifting on those trees is a bit excessive, maybe tone that down.".. What does that mean?.. The hues are shifting too quickly?.. the hues' intensity too conflicting?.. there is too many adjustments to the hues happening?.. Just saying that that the hueshifting is a bit excessive is a bit vague- It's like saying that the hues are too colorful or the shades are too shaded or something. It's better to go to the base of the issues.

If he said that to me I'd take it to mean the effect is over pronounced (the hues at either end are too far appart or too arbitrarily tinted), and then investigate exactly what's pushing that particular piece over the edge.

Can definitely become a little tiresome on the eye if the whole screen is full of unusual and conflicting hue-shifts and not enough contrast in the saturation (but I don't think I've ever seen an example I don't prefer to dull flat ramps). 

[AlexHW]

(but I don't think I've ever seen an example I don't prefer to dull flat ramps).

just curious what you think of this since this game doesn't use any crazy "hueshifting"
 

[ptoing]

Dodonpachi does have straight ramps as well in most cases, as do most other arcade and console games.

Those arcade and console games mostly have straight ramps because it is way easier to get a coherent look if you have more colours with straighter ramps. If you have something that only has 16 or 32 colours like on Atari ST / Amiga 500, then hueshifting can work nicely and you need a smarter palette anyway.

Also esp in fighting games sprites are done to be easily palette swapped for alternate looks. This again is a lot easier and more straight forward if you have straight ramps.

Also, I know I am breaking my promise to myself here: Colour is the totality of what we percieve. Stuff like Chroma, Brightness, Hue, Lightness, Saturation and so on are all parts of colour, and they are also not super consistently defined, depending on what colour model you are talking about, but I think saying that colour can be taken further apart into bits (such as HSV for example) makes sense. Again, this is mostly semantics.

ptoing, OVER AND OUT.

PS: Alex, I dunno if you are doing this kinda stuff on purpose, but your post here, with the Last Blade screenshot is kinda trollish, and some of your other posts are semi trollish. You do not need to reply to this here, it is just an observation. It just seems to me that you want to get some sort of discussion going which does not necessarily have much value. I recall a certain discussion about veganism from a couple of years back. Not quite as bad right now, but similar kinda stuff.

Enough derailing from me.

[r1k]

This is just an idea, but maybe when begginers think about hue shifting, they may tend to think of hue as being seperated into "hue families" rather than hue simply being a smooth scale from red to magenta.  By hue families I mean like: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple.  So when they have something green its easy to think that they must shift into the adjecent hue families (yellow and blue) rather than thinking they can just move into a warmer green and a cooler green.  Or maybe its just too much SD3 influence.  In anycase whenever I suggest someone does hue shifting I try to explain the basic cooler shadows, warmer lights idea, but also suggest that the opposite could work in some situations too.  Too often the hue shifting I see is too predictable and boring (purple/blue shadows, yellow/orange lights).  I think thats because theyre only open to the cool shadows, warm lights idea, without being open to other possibilities.  Subtler hue shifts may open more possibilities too (orange shadows and blue lights might look totally wrong, but a more subtle variant might look interesting)