[WIP] C64 tiles: water and sand.

[Stefano]

This is obviously not good, but I can't find new approaches to try, so I've decided to ask for help.
I've looked at both water photos and game tiles. Then I've tried to come up with something of my own, but failed.

I'm using Ptoing's slightly lighter C64 table () and figured less contrasting colours would work better for ground tiles.
Water: 4 best results, 4 tiles each.

Sand: I need 2 types of sand... My best 2 attempts.

Anyone has ideas on how to improve them?

If you feel like taking a look at the rest of the tiles (for curiosity or to critique), please do: HERE.

[heyy13]

Bottom left of the water examples is the best imo. It reads immediatly as water and as being in motion. The limitation is that with the bright points you can see where it tiles relativly clearly once you look at it for abit. My issue with the two right ones, (especially the bottom right) is that it took me afew moments to figure out if they were water or hills, however they do tile much better. Either way with the pallet excelent job. 

Sorry i can't help much, but i thought i'd put in my two cents.

[Stefano]

Thank you very much for your two cents, heyy13!
A fresh set of eyes always help us think outside our own decision loops.

1. Water:
I agree that the bottom left water tiles look the most convincing. But the thing is, they also stand out as the most clichéd (as in: overused in every cheap RPG), don't you think?
To me, the high crests (pointy and shiny at times) add to the feeling of caricatured water, close to what a child would draw if asked to represent water.
The other designs are simply not fun to look at. Their perspective and predominant horizontal lines imply that the observer is close to the surface, contradicting the game perspective. So, yeah, they're crap.

I'm still trying and I did try to come up with something else but it looks like coral sprouting from the ground.  
Maybe the pallette limitations won't let me take it further than the results I got?
I guess I'll just have to be patient and resilient to find out.


2. Sand:
Yellow/gray were the only basic colours I've found to be satisfying in the portrayal of sand.
Again, maybe I need to experiment a little bit more, but it seems to me that sand can't use any lower values without looking like dirt or other non-sandy soils.
On my previous attempts, the dunes were just too big and made of too contrasting colours, thus creating too noticeable (highlighted) patterns.
It just wasn't working on the mock-up. Not knowing what else to do, I've decided to keep the yellow/gray base and spread speckles over it (these are WIPs!), as gracefully as I could.
Maybe I'll just settle for plain colors... haven't decided yet.

Any thoughts or good examples??


I'm finding this palette/restrictions to be very interesting and educative in many aspects.

[EDIT] Adding an early mock-up to make the thread less dull.

[EDIT  02.11.11] I'm still updating the image above, as you can see (and the complete tiles sheet link, seen on 1st post).
If you feel like critiquing any other tile, please go right ahead.

Apart from what I already said, I'm still unhappy with my grass, because I think it reads as stubble, but I haven't been able to improve it any further so far.
The trees look blobby and have too many details. Is it affecting its readability? I'll have to work on those some more.

Since this is a remake for an existing game, there's some things I just can't change, like the lack of perspective/outlines on he brick walls tiles.

[Mathias]

Yikes, that palette! Believe me I know it well. Too well.

What are the spikey things? Tell me those aren't mountains. Too outa scale, juxtaposed to the shrubbery, even for a classic RPG map view. Love the shrubs/trees, btw.

Man, I dunno about that yellow path . . . and those purple building tiles. Phew.

And as for me, I like caricaturized things. Striving for realism may well NOT be advisable. Are you working with any restrictions other than the C64 pal??


*EDIT   Came across this at PJ. Reminded me of your water tile attempts. I think 7sons did a great job on his water tiles. More realistic like you're trying to do, but detail resolution larger, which creates at the same time a nice simple iconic appearance because obviously if to scale those water frothy shapes would be so tiny you'd only be able to make a generic noise texture.

[Stefano]

Thank you for your help and for the reference, Mathias.
I've been processing your input, reading more, consulting other people's posts and experimenting with (what I felt) could lead me to more personally satisfying and fairly authentic results.
The palette is indeed tricky, but once you start to digest and incorporate its well documented restrictions and advantages, the learning process gets really a pleasing and addictive. Almost like solving a puzzle.

A. Answering to your question, I'm working with no other restrictions, except respecting the original tile sheet positions/quantities.
That alone is difficult enough for me, as it means I can't unify the perspective of tiles and it's driving me crazy. Some tiles end up representing multiple views. It's the case of walls. Due to the lack of perspective and continuous disposition of the brick blocks, I tend to perceive them viewed from above, but then there are windows, indicating it's actually a front view; on top of that there is the furniture suggesting perspective.
The pointy things are, indeed, supposed to be mountains! I don't like them, but I'm having a hard time conciliating the multiple views in order to convincingly portray them. If I addopt the "viewed from above" approach, it looks shallow, as if it was large pool on the ground. If I try to represent "full frontal" height, it works for the cliffs with invisible tops (the ones on the edge of the map), but looks really unconvincing for mountains on the middle of the screen.

The pointy scaily things were my attempt of creating something as symbolic as the brick walls - that would represent it in the logic of the game, without really replicating reality. It makes sense to me, but I'm not that good with abstractions when it comes to visual espatial description and scale.

B.To the next topic: I agree the purple tiles look dull. They are low contrasting if compared to the background tiles, thus pushing them back into the floor plane. I have tried to address address the issue, as you may see below.
The sand was just crap, like I've mentioned, and was completely redone. It look less like typical RPG sand, but the yellow was too prominent against all other colours, lighting it up and pushing it toward the viewer.

C. I think I'm searching for a balance between caricaturized and life-like (part of the "authenticity" I have so boldly mentioned before), but I just feel I'm managing to get mostly unoriginal and generic tiles. I can't blame it all on the palette, though. It's also due to my lack of experience experience, but the solution is keep thinking, pushing pixels around and coming back for more help/different points-of-view.


(I've also updated the tiles set on 1st post)

Not entirely sure if I like it, but it's starting to take shape, at least. Enough over-thinking sh** for today. 

[Helm]

man, this is a tricky situation.



I tried this, not sure if it helps things any. I think you have too soft a contrast range in how you did these and although they look individually fine as elements, all of it together looks super-flat and it makes the places where you use black as ink appear very fragile. I'm not sure if my solution helps this much, but at least you can tell the walls will stop the player from moving on them?

edit: have you looked at this? http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/legend-of-blacksilver/screenshots/gameShotId,154913/