AuthorTopic: Present improvement  (Read 12874 times)

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Present improvement

on: December 28, 2009, 11:11:56 am
Well I have to say I feel really ashamed at the present I gave my person and I want to improve it for them especially seeing as what Elk made their Santee.

So yeah I would love all Constructive Criticism and critique top help improve this piece for Elk.


I already started by trying to fix a few perspective issues.




ps the train was initially meant top be steampunkish but I don't really understand the genre.

Offline Lizzrd

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 06:59:52 pm
Make the train have lot's of cogs and movy parts on it, visible. And some pipes.
Photocopier: the fact that arne can also code so well
Photocopier: is horrificly unfair

Offline Manupix

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint gallery

Re: Present improvement

Reply #2 on: December 28, 2009, 09:59:08 pm
It could use some wheels and rails, it's not really readable as a train so far.
The dithering on metal is far too even, try to give it some texture. Also it conflicts with perspective on the top.
Light is a bit inconsistent: hard cast shadows but soft highlights.

Nothing to be ashamed of though!  :)

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 08:37:09 am
@lizz- Ah alrighty then, I will give it a go, not certain where I should add these but I will start playing around.

@Manupix- The bottom case thing is meant to cover the wheels but If it's causing readability issues I probably should add at least a 1/4 of some wheels.
Ahhhh, ok. Had someone tell me metal should be smooth. Maybe it's the steampunk style for metal to look worn. Tried altering the perspective because the top where the guy is standing is the attempted perspective. 15 degree.




I think it looks more like wood. :(   (only the front top barrel is done)
Might be the colour pallet, always been bad at colour choice.

I tried to tone the shadows down a tad, Unfortunately my eyes are sensitive to light so even though my monitor is darker than most I still tend to shy more towards darks.

I still am but thanks! Not yet up to the skill of many others.

Offline Jeremy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • howdy
    • pixellerjeremy
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19218.htm
    • pixellerjeremy
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 09:02:20 am
The perspective's a little odd- is he standing ON the side of the train (rather than the top)?

Steampunk is very copper, wood and brass, perhaps you could add panels and bolts and everything to break up the large surfaces (Encountered the same problems on my SS :blind: ), and perhaps add some verdigris (The cool lookin' green stuff that forms when those metals corrode). And pipes and wheels and cogs :D

The gold colours are really good, but the rest of the colours are pretty straight-ramped.

Offline Lizzrd

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 09:13:37 am
The person's perspective is wrong according to the train, so you oculd make the train like this:
Photocopier: the fact that arne can also code so well
Photocopier: is horrificly unfair

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #6 on: January 02, 2010, 07:51:21 am
@Jeremy- No that is meant to be the roof/top. :(
I will do some research into copper,wood and brass then.
I might mess with the colour pallets a bit hen.

@Lizz- first issue I have with your edit is you've created a 45 degree angle, if you were to colour the roof the guy would look like he is leaning forward to quite a large degree. (Like Michael Jackson in smooth criminal)
The person's perspective is 15 degrees and that's also what I was trying to pull off for the train. I think the major issue is the proportion. My guy is a freaking giant on-top of the train and even though I was aiming to create a large guy but I think the size of his foot on top of the small roof distorts the view. I'm thinking I should re-make the guy a bit smaller, might help the overall image?

Offline Lizzrd

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 10:49:02 am
Well your train doesn't look like he's standing on top of it, rather than the side, like osme sort of twisted gecko-shoe-user.
Photocopier: the fact that arne can also code so well
Photocopier: is horrificly unfair

Offline CaKsTeR

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 05:50:43 pm
seems fine to me?

The guy on the train's skin colours could use a bit of alteration, they seem very saturated (right word here?)

Offline The B.O.B.

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 699
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • currently losering it up...
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 05:21:57 am
I'm sorry if this is a bit short, but it's direct and to the point: stop relying on dithering too much. Focus on the basics first(volumes, perspective, primary color/hue selection, etc.) THEN focus on the pixel art afterward.....Also, don't be afraid to use references. They help. : )
my back hurts...

Offline Lizzrd

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 09:58:32 am
Photocopier: the fact that arne can also code so well
Photocopier: is horrificly unfair

Offline Elk

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +0/-2
  • Choice Architect & Nudger
    • elkdarkshire
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/4683.htm
    • darkshire
    • darkshire.elk
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #11 on: January 03, 2010, 11:48:40 am
I'm sorry if this is a bit short, but it's direct and to the point: stop relying on dithering too much. Focus on the basics first(volumes, perspective, primary color/hue selection, etc.) THEN focus on the pixel art afterward.....Also, don't be afraid to use references. They help. : )

Bob knows me so good <3

I should have mentioned that aswell at the dislikes I believe...lol :)

Anyways, good improvement so far, be a little more open for changes
Open for business
elkdarkshire@gmail.com
Elk#2299

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 04:41:57 pm
@bob- well I guess if I'm doing something completely wrong, going back to step1 is probably the smartest idea. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

@Elk- Hmmm I'm not a fan of clean cut (dunno why but I like to see pixels in my pixel art. Beats me) but it is your present not mine, so will take that into consideration.

Started smoothing it off to it's raw original form. (yes I did start everything off with flat shapes, well except the hair and skin of the character)


Once I've smoothed it I will try altering the colour pallet. Also did some measuring and realised I have about a 9 degree angle for the roof ot a 15 degree, which will be contributing to the look of standing on a wall. Will add an extra 7-8pixels to it's depth and that should correct that issue. Probably still need to down-size my giant.
@Cak- Hmmmmm true I see what you mean. I was trying to go high saturation colours or elk as that was something put in his post. (saturated colours make me feel warm) ;D

@Lizzrd- believe it or not I did use a few referances. I will see if I can hunt down the pages as I didn't keep the link just a picture in a separate layer. A few of which I had to use the screen-Print button to get illegitimate copies of. Don't worry I will delete said images off my PC when I'm done. Biggest issue I have is I'm a newbie and I did kind of rush it the entire time to get it done on time. I also can't imagine references at different angles and I culdn't find any decent side-view referances, so I kind of worked half of referance the other half on imagination.

Anyway got to go to bed. My girlfriend is picking on me cause it's 1am and I got to get up at 6. ;)


PS I think I'm finally heading in the correct direction for the beak. :blind:

Offline Jeremy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • howdy
    • pixellerjeremy
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19218.htm
    • pixellerjeremy
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 06:49:17 pm
Btw, the chimney and other hump thing should really be at the same angle to the cylinder as the figure, that's probably contributing to some perspective issues

Offline Jorund

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 87
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 03:17:08 am
When I looked at the image something disturbes me right here, in the start of the roof:


That part of the train doesn't seem to follow the perspective. I know it's curved and the lines I made are straight, but it just to get the idea of where I think that should go.
Right know it looks like he's standing not in the roof, but in some kind of side edge.

If we see the guy without the rest of the train. It doesn't seem odd, except for his size:


I don't know... hope that helps.

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 04:46:46 pm
All hues of shading exist in their own little colorverse. Each shade goes to a darker version of itself when nearing shadow, and each highlight to a lighter version of itself. It's as though there was no colored light source, and no ambient light. Or, well, especially the skin tones of the guy - seeing as the world around him is mostly blue-gray-green, the light bouncing around everywhere would have that cold aspect, thus everything that's in shadow would also have a certain grayness to it. Soo well I suggest you make it so! It'll look nice ' u '
' _ '

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 02:00:16 pm
Hey everyone thanks for the helpful tips. I am still working on this just can't post anything yet as I'm using my girlfriends laptop. (mine's wireless network adapter has fried itself)

@Jad- Yes I know what you mean, My colour picking abilities are pretty bad, currently doing some studying of colour theory, hopefully that will help. I will take your advice and decrease the saturation for the darker colours. I'm going to change the sky colour from the gold to a more aqua colour. I want to adjust the darker colours to do a similar thing

@Jo- Hmm yeah, I see what you mean but the back of yours follows the back of the item on the roof, (not sure what you call it) and what I will call the front barrel curves so I think it needs even more width than what you've suggested. I did this edit of yours before I lost me net access.


@Jeremy- Yeah I agree, I was told at another forum I should increase the top visibility of the chimney and the other thingie I think I will change it back. the change I made in the general light on the front barrel may have had an effect on this.

Offline PsiGamesInc

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • PsiGames Inc.

Re: Present improvement

Reply #17 on: January 14, 2010, 09:18:11 pm
Wow that is really nice, and very well done. As some have mentioned the character standing at the top of the trail kinda throw me off because you can't tell is he/she is standing on top of the train or on the side. I really like the colors you've used and think that 90% of the image is complete and the other 10% just needs to be tweeked a bit. I can also tell that it is a train, but would like to see some wheels, and tracks to complete the artwork. All in all this is a very beautiful image, and hope you keep up the good work :)

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #18 on: January 22, 2010, 01:32:17 am
Yay my computer is fixed. ;D

So yea it's been getting repaired the last few days so I haven't done a lot extra to it.
Smoothed off most of it except the character. Still thinking of making him a touch smaller.



I've changed the colours but looking at more pixel art references I thin I went the wrong way with the saturation and the darker colours should be the more saturated.
I also reduced the colour count just a tad.
I still need to change the depth of the roof and make it more apparent/readable. Thinking of either making it darker or maybe switching the colours of the roof with the colours of the guys boots or a combo of both.
Also need to clean up the smoke. Lots of jaggies.

Also I might try a line gradiation (I know not a word) on the barrel part to give it more "roundness"


@PSi- Well thank you. Hmm yeah a few people seem to have an issue with the readability of the roof so I'm going to try and fix that. I was using Trigun's Sand-steamer as a bit of a reference so I decided not to add wheels, however Seems a few people would like it added so I will amend that concept. The colours I think still could use some amending too.


PS. Photobucket seems to change my colours a fair bit. ???

Offline Ryumaru

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • to be animated soonly
    • ChrisPariano
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 03:52:15 am
The colors are much improved, whether it was your doing or photobucket's.
As for saturation- in reality, or at least the general, or the ideal, or whatever word has to be said- Shadows are LESS saturated than the local color, which will have more saturation than both the shadow and the lights. Also the shadows will tend to be the opposite temperature than the light. So if your light source is giving off a yellow ish light, you would have a desaturated purple ish shadow. Generally.

Offline Atrophy

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #20 on: January 22, 2010, 04:06:26 am
I see one HUGE flaw that has been pointed out multiple times, yet nothing done to fix it. The train itself is viewed on multiple planes . for the top half its as if your looking onto it. For the bottom, its as if your looking straight at it, but the rail on it is if your looking down onto it. Truly the figure itself need A LOT of reworking to look correct to the eye.

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 05:14:50 am
I really love having internet again, my lunch breaks were so boring without it.

@Atrophy- yes a lot of people have poited this out, the major issue for me is I'm struggling to understand where I am going wrong here. (perspective is something I have had a flaw with my entire life) It's all supposed to be 15 degrees up from a side view.  The light itself is supposed to be generated from a 45 degree vertical and a 30 degree horizontal. I think the major cause to the multi-plane thing is the bottom case. I'm not certain how to shade it though. :(

I honestly think I need some major help in those areas.

@Ryumaru- So that would make the middle colour the most saturated then right? Thanks I thought the colours were quite an improvement too. Photobucket really only messes with the hue by about 5 points and the brightness by roughly 10. Someone said to me it might have something to do with the calibration or something like that of my computer. ???

Thanks to all so far for helping me. :)

Offline Elrinth

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Hello peeps
    • View Profile
    • Elrinth's personal webpage

Re: Present improvement

Reply #22 on: January 23, 2010, 10:18:14 am
I like where this is going.

A couple of hints on what you could work on:

* make legs taller
* improve right arm, looks like it's broken right now
* perspective seems off.. to the left from the character the train looks like it's totally seen from the side, this would mean the character is very likely to fall, however the shadows at his legs tell the train is seen in somekind of perspective which doesn't apply to the rest of the train other than the very surface he's standin on. You are implying:
(1) train is seen totally from side
(2) train is seen from top-down (Zelda perspective)
"Truly, if there's evil out there, it lies within the heart of mankind!" - Edward D. Morrison
Mai fav games: Seiken Densetsu, Rockman, Doom, Final Fantasy, Zelda no Densetsu, Metroid, Kid Icarus
Fav consoles: Sharp Twin Fami, Super Nintendo Jr., Wintendo Gamecube

Offline Ultimaodin

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Unknown Artistry
    • View Profile

Re: Present improvement

Reply #23 on: January 24, 2010, 03:11:44 am
I tried to actually do some measurements to try and escape from the non-intended side view.


Showed a tiny piece for each edit to see if people think I'm going in the right (or wrong) direction before I change the whole thing.

Also just started changing the bottom front of the case to curve, which was one of the big issues to it looking side view. (Don't know how I didn't pic that up earlier. -_- )

@Elrinth- Enlarging the legs I feel would make the character look more side-view which is what I'm trying to reprimand to the desired 15 degree perspective. They should be the correct length. As for the arm, I did not even notice that until you pointed it out. It looks like it sticks back rather than forward and it's impossible to read the fact that the pants are supposed to be overlapping over-top of half the hand. :(
Thanks for the points, hopefully my measurement edits will fix the perspective issues, at least a majority of them anyway.