AuthorTopic: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator  (Read 27614 times)

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #30 on: December 03, 2009, 01:11:12 pm
One thing that I've been doing wrong so far was to present it in a light or soft coloured background. The itself we'll be featuring very dark environmets, similarly to space hulk, so as soon as I accidentally dropped a black paintbucket on the background, magic happened and the sprite suddenly looked a lot better. Added darker shaders and remade the helmet. He looks like he means business now. Should be adding a few more black shaders. Also added mdchristie's gun (hope he doesnt mind), reduced the torso size and the arms a bit. Reversed the hunchback.

"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #31 on: December 03, 2009, 04:25:44 pm
Great edit ndchristie, that looks a lot better!

Monochrome: I wouldn't have said it looks more cartoony, just perhaps darker as fitting with the subject matter. Your latest sprite does indeed look better against a black background, especially with the dark shades. I think though that the helmet still needs to be more distinctive, as I find it hard to see what it is now.. I would rather have a recognisable, distinctive 'face' on a sprite, than something that is more accurate in terms of size and shading, but is less readable. For figures I think faces are very important as we pay so much attention to faces with the way the visual systems work in our brains.

However, it is your sprite! Just my thoughts.. :)

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #32 on: December 03, 2009, 06:24:43 pm
Great edit ndchristie, that looks a lot better!

Monochrome: I wouldn't have said it looks more cartoony, just perhaps darker as fitting with the subject matter. Your latest sprite does indeed look better against a black background, especially with the dark shades. I think though that the helmet still needs to be more distinctive, as I find it hard to see what it is now.. I would rather have a recognisable, distinctive 'face' on a sprite, than something that is more accurate in terms of size and shading, but is less readable. For figures I think faces are very important as we pay so much attention to faces with the way the visual systems work in our brains.

However, it is your sprite! Just my thoughts.. :)


Then again, try to understand I'm trying to reproduce a terminator as faithfully as possible on a very specific perspective. ndchristie's version looks great, but it's excessively stylized and  fdoesn't fit the look I'm aiming for in therms of design, proportion and perspective. My version is far from perfection, but it fits a more serious tone. The recent changes I did to the helmet are based on upon other pixel artwork that is by far the best pixel rendition of a terminator I've yet to see, though it's a simple adaptation of EA's own version I posted before.
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline Photocopier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 07:19:30 pm
but at the size you're working it's too small too get away with it not being stylized, the thing about spriting for a game is to create readability. Therefore it is much more difficult to draw in as much detail as the sprites you've just linked to. Could we see some of your other graphics? because I much prefer the edits with the larger helmets to the version you are currently working with.

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 07:35:24 pm
but at the size you're working it's too small too get away with it not being stylized, the thing about spriting for a game is to create readability.

Yet remember the sprites are zoomed while in game.


Therefore it is much more difficult to draw in as much detail as the sprites you've just linked to. Could we see some of your other graphics? because I much prefer the edits with the larger helmets to the version you are currently working with.

But not impossible. If you take a look at any of the chaos engine character sprites, you'll realize how the artist managed to create a lot more intricate details at a smaller scale with no more stylization the one I'm using. Plus by observing the basic shapes of the terminator armor itself, one can realize they're a lot more straightfoward to come up with than certain, let's say a more human or animal shapes. the details being mostly concentrated on highlights and reflections which once again are not impossible to create at this scale.

Could we see some of your other graphics?

Pardon me? I thought I mentioned at the beginning of this thread this was my fiirst sprite
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #35 on: December 03, 2009, 07:59:23 pm
Well, I used this image as a reference (not being familiar with modern 40,000)
http://www.ifelix.net/gamingblog/wp-content/sh001.jpg
And that seems to have a larger helmet than the image you posted. That's my excuse anyway! ;)  ;D

Offline EyeCraft

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • What are you scared of?
    • View Profile
    • Death By Dev

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #36 on: December 04, 2009, 12:36:59 am
Eyecraft's version seemed great until i recognised a lion-like face on a closer inspection. I'm still tweaking it over and over, but i've realized that you either had the breeding mask thing and leave out the chin or put the chin and leave the mask part of, which is bad aswell. The trick is to show a bit of both, but so far I've yet to realize how.


The Emperor's Pride Chapter knew they could get the edge they needed over the Xeno's by splicing the might of the king of the jungle's DNA into their marines.  :lol:

Quote
A problem with adding darker shades to the chest was exactly another bug related problem: harder inbetweens make it look like a red beetle or a ladybug. Also keep in mind this sprite model is supposed to be recoloured according to other chapter patterns/colours, so overshading might turn up to be a bit of a risky choice for me :p.

It's not the "amount" of shading that makes something like that difficult. It's the number of colours you use to shade it. You don't need to add darker shades, you need to darken the darks and mid-darks you have.

Quote
On a closer inspection I've just realized I need to rearrange the hunchback aswell. and change it back from a ^ to a V perspective. The leg stance could use a tweak aswell- Is not as quite as good as I thought it was.

Nice work on that. Looks much more terminator-y now.  :y:

Still contrast issues. Working on a dark canvas is a trap. Your sprite's contrast should be able to stand up to the scrutiny of a lighter canvas. If it doesn't, retreating to a canvas that downplays the problem won't fix it. Black canvas or not, it's still to a large extent a saturated red blob to the eye, it's just that now the eye has lost the clear silhouette of it.

Still got a tonne of unnecessary colours. I don't see the contrast really fixable until the palette is controlled.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 12:39:17 am by EyeCraft »

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #37 on: December 05, 2009, 04:25:52 pm
Reshaped the whole thing and recoloured it according to happymonster's pallete. Only extra colours are the grays in the gun and the green used for the chest crest and eyes. Opinions?


"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #38 on: December 05, 2009, 04:30:15 pm
Much much better!

Helmet shape is clearer and the greater contrast range overall helps. Maybe a bit more shinyness on the gun?

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #39 on: December 05, 2009, 06:40:30 pm
I must admit more vibrant colours really make it stand a lot more. Once again thanks for all the help, yet I'm still open to again modifications and suggestions. Next step will be adding certain decorations and extras like the Crux Terminatus and the power fist. Any suggestions?

And I'll tweak the gun later.
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche