AuthorTopic: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator  (Read 32080 times)

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 06:36:04 pm
I didn't really realise he was supposed to have a red helmet! All the reference pictures I saw were in blue suits with white'ish helmets.

Using eyecraft's image (thank you colour reduction!) I've tweaked some colours, redesigned some parts and redrawn the helmet. Not done much with the rest of his body. Can you tell I like black and high contrast? ;)


Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 07:10:19 pm
This is lookin' most exquisite-like now! OP version is miles away. Good progression!

The readability is there. It's got good solid form. The remaining weakness I think is the helmet. It's kinda gets lost among all the red. Though I don't prefer the white monkey skull looking helmet either. A glass dome with a little highlight would speak well, but something mroe unique may be possible, while retaining clarity. Sorry, no edit today.

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #22 on: December 02, 2009, 07:15:27 pm
Slightly smaller helmet version (but not that happy with this..)

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #23 on: December 02, 2009, 10:15:44 pm
Well, fair gents, I mean no disrespect but this is the part where I must abstain from most creative alternatives and stand to a more regular and less imaginative view. I've actually started to create the first animation stances, modelling them right after from the chaos engine ones, so if they seem odd, blame the bitmap bros :p.



I've taken into account plenty of your later suggestion to create this version. Indeed I traced the outlines and added a lot more shades, but ultimately I couldn't find the guts to render something in the ways of Eyecraft, for after a much deliberation and inspection, I decided I wasnt satisfied with how it looked from less zoomed distances. Actually I think I ended up adding more colours then previously, but since the sprite is actually for a pratical purpose I don't think adding extra detail is such a bad thing. I started adding some extra details since terminatour armors are actually pretty rich in decorations such as these. Once again perhaps I should've clarified things a bit more beforehand. Ideally the sprite is meant to be played not on its original size but similar to Chaos Engine scale, which is enough to display plenty of additional detail, especially on a bulky fella such as this.

Still feel free to post any other creative deviations or alternative views, but don't forget to keep suggesting more pratical stuff I can use aswell! Always keep in mind I really need your feedback in this. And again, I'm sorry if I picked something more bland than you were expecting.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 08:03:43 pm by Monochrome »
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #24 on: December 02, 2009, 10:24:19 pm
i think some of it has to do with the angle he's looking at and the fact that we have no real understanding that there might be a chest...

possible edit, made him look more down/forward:



also a few smaller things:

you have it right from the beginning : blood angels terminators like those found in Space Hulk (which was i assume the inspiration and the character you're making) wear red helmets, not white, with the exception of some who may wear black as an honor (tyranid wars, or have reached captain ranking but not been awarded the post).  This is also true in 40k.
blood angels carry black-cased weapons (also helps show that it's a gun being held, not a gun-arm)
tried to simplify the chapter badge on the left his right shoulder
added the crux terminatus to his left our right shoulder (which i see you did yourself while i was editing the latest edit)
added an aquila to define the chest
broadened/flattened the armor backing and raise the shoulders to meet it per the game designs
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 10:25:57 pm by ndchristie »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #25 on: December 02, 2009, 10:33:18 pm
i think some of it has to do with the angle he's looking at and the fact that we have no real understanding that there might be a chest...

possible edit, made him look more down/forward:



also a few smaller things:

you have it right from the beginning : blood angels terminators like those found in Space Hulk (which was i assume the inspiration and the character you're making) wear red helmets, not white, with the exception of some who may wear black as an honor (tyranid wars, or have reached captain ranking but not been awarded the post).  This is also true in 40k.
blood angels carry black-cased weapons (also helps show that it's a gun being held, not a gun-arm)
tried to simplify the chapter badge on the left his right shoulder
added the crux terminatus to his left our right shoulder (which i see you did yourself while i was editing the latest edit)
added an aquila to define the chest
broadened/flattened the armor backing and raise the shoulders to meet it per the game designs


Your version seems really cute in a cartoony way, sometimes it makes me feel a bit sorry we're going with a more bland interpretation/design. I decided to go with silver decorations just to differ a bit form the classic blood angels pattern. The gun design is perhaps the best thing. It looks great. I've been trying to create an aim for the stormbolter for ages now, and I had quited a few minutes ago until you came with that. Again, sorry if it's copying but it looks really good. Ill be noting each and every single of your names to make sure i credit you all when it's done.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 10:52:36 pm by Monochrome »
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #26 on: December 02, 2009, 10:42:55 pm
Well, cartoony reads really well.  You might dodge that, but i would urge you to examine quite closely the shapes that you make.  There are a couple of problems with the sprite as it is now, notably that it's rather flat (the contrast added by happymonster  was a good solution) and the face you've got which drops off chinless makes it look a lot like a bug.  Actually his whole form reminds me of the alien brutes from half life painted red :P
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #27 on: December 02, 2009, 11:03:58 pm
Well, cartoony reads really well.  You might dodge that, but i would urge you to examine quite closely the shapes that you make.  There are a couple of problems with the sprite as it is now, notably that it's rather flat (the contrast added by happymonster  was a good solution) and the face you've got which drops off chinless makes it look a lot like a bug.  Actually his whole form reminds me of the alien brutes from half life painted red :P

The face does indeed look a bit bug like but alternatives so far, are either too big or look like something aswell. Eyecraft's version seemed great until i recognised a lion-like face on a closer inspection. I'm still tweaking it over and over, but i've realized that you either had the breeding mask thing and leave out the chin or put the chin and leave the mask part of, which is bad aswell. The trick is to show a bit of both, but so far I've yet to realize how. As for contrast and highlights there are still some things left to be shaded, such as the arms.. I'll probably attempt to reshade the pauldrons too. A problem with adding darker shades to the chest was exactly another bug related problem: harder inbetweens make it look like a red beetle or a ladybug. Also keep in mind this sprite model is supposed to be recoloured according to other chapter patterns/colours, so overshading might turn up to be a bit of a risky choice for me :p.

On a closer inspection I've just realized I need to rearrange the hunchback aswell. and change it back from a ^ to a V perspective. The leg stance could use a tweak aswell- Is not as quite as good as I thought it was.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:39:06 pm by Monochrome »
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline Monochrome

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #28 on: December 03, 2009, 08:19:58 am
On a funny sidenote, it seem that even the folks at EA had trouble in making the helmet look good, even at a higher res! The maskpiece looks more like a mouth smilling.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2425/lolwut.png
"God is dead, but considering the state of species Man is in, there will perhaps be caves, for ages yet, in which his shadow will be shown"

Friederich Nietzsche

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP] help with sprite - space marine terminator

Reply #29 on: December 03, 2009, 11:54:37 am
when in doubt you can go with the pre-90's fluff which routinely refers to these characters as having elephant-like faces (and indeed, many of the old chaos/traitor/mutant terminators have tusks or trunks)
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.