AuthorTopic: harmonious world  (Read 25292 times)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

harmonious world

on: November 22, 2009, 11:57:07 pm

old one can be found here
still not sure if i'm gonna go with the bigger or smaller one, or even which one would be easier to do.

Offline EyeCraft

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • What are you scared of?
    • View Profile
    • Death By Dev

Re: harmonious world

Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 03:41:11 am
It's looking a bit blotchy at the moment. There's little clear distinction between light and shadow. This is due to how you've evenly distributed patches of lighter tones and darker ones, and the liberal use of ultra-black inner linework.

If this is intended as a game sprite, your movement towards less saturated colours may affect its pop factor. I say less reliance on the outlines and more on a strong flow of form with clear light and shadow rendered in richer colours.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 01:45:23 pm
here's a bunch of small edits and a small animation

also its meant to be viewed at 2x which actually helps a lot, even with firefox blur. esp. the colours.
edit: also, thanks eyecraft. for some reason you're the first guy to actually crit this. everyone else has either said they love it or they like the old one better.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 06:55:51 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: harmonious world

Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 03:36:22 pm
He's eyecraft.

Underlying anatomy problems are the same with your past work, I think. The color selection is interesting, but the pixelling leaves a lot to be desired. It looks unrefined, more than anything. I'd start by tightening the anatomy and the forms would follow, probably. His hips are as wide as his shoulders, are you sure you really want this? The arm is like spaghetti (remember that crit the BOB gave you?) the right shoulder is rounded like a beachball, this just doesn't happen. The neck is not in the middle of the shoulders. You put more effort into the legs and that shows, they're much better, but you really do have to hit the anatomy books, still.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 07:00:00 pm
i have no idea why i called him evileye. thats weird. anyway, next time i go to the library ill see of there's anything on anatomy, but i don't have a ton of extra cash lying around. here's a slightly updated version that i just didn't post but most of the problems are still there

ill keep working at it. fortunately i am starting to see the problems you're pointing out more than i would've, and I guess that shows some improvement.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 07:02:22 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: harmonious world

Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 07:19:56 pm
Got a crit on the animation.

when he is straightening his legs the waistline does not rise, it should. Also his upper body stretches in a very nonsensical way.
I advise you to actually play out stuff like this before you animate it. If possible in front of a mirror.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 11:31:46 pm
actually i have a convenient full body mirror right next to my computer and i did use it, but to be honest I just forgot about the waistline altogether. anyhow i think i fixed all the issues pointed out so far

whoo, that took way less time than normal
edit: added some personal changes
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 11:52:22 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: harmonious world

Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 12:02:14 am
The hips still don't raise as the straightens the legs. The crotch would actually go up. You can not bend your knees and keep the crotch at the same height while you stand.
And I think he still accordions too much.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 12:20:01 am

ehhhh?
also something i tossed together for fun to show how this guy's evolved over the years
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 12:34:46 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: harmonious world

Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 12:35:07 am
Still some accordion action going on. Also do this kinda movement with the jerky drop and I reckon it would hurt after a while. I would go for something more subtle.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 12:39:35 am
once i have it completely done I'm gonna slow it down (i had it like that on the third post but it got tedious as hell to edit). ill mess with it a bit, but one can only stare at his own crotch for so long

Offline EyeCraft

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • What are you scared of?
    • View Profile
    • Death By Dev

Re: harmonious world

Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 02:53:07 am
He's eyecraft.
Haha, I think this is the second time someone's called me Evil Eye... I think the first person was Mathias  :lol:



Addressed the points I made in my crit (as well as some of Helm's). Also found you've got a fair few jaggies throughout the outline. There's banding and stuff happening, I didn't get it all. You've got a few colours that could really be replaced with recycled colours. A lot of the darks. You could tweak a lot of your midtones to fulfill each others roles as well, get much more range and variety that way, especially with the highlights. I didn't really touch them, but it definitely something you could do.

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 03:57:11 am
Evil Eye...
Arch nemisis?! >:D

I like how far its come, Tuna.
Lets see if I can give you an edit...

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 04:01:48 am
hehe, yeah I did. Trying to move too fast sometimes I guess . . .

Pretty cool, Tuna. Neat evolution progression, too. I do like the current version the most. Don't you hate it when others say a previous version outdoes the current? Luckily not the case here. Current shows an improvement in many areas.

I like that EYECRAFT (the one and only [not the other one]) edited in some hair highlight, like your previous purple shirt version - not so flat now, better balances detail density.

My biggest complaint is all the black. The black outlining. It seems to obscure areas that could be made more clear, since it's such a small sprite. Though the black outlines do give a nice illustrative/drawn style look, so I guess I'll call it a style choice. Kinda like the high saturation colors used for the under shirt - obviously out of place but I can't help appreciate them for the visual interest they lend.

The idle anim is a little odd. Once you slow it down it'll be better. The wind in the hair is a nice touch. Overall the vibe of the sprite, it's emotion, to me, is : confident apathetic emo kid, perhaps bored.



Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 04:27:41 am
eyecraft (almost slipped again there)- thanks, that helped a ton. even if you messed on a few details (though that's more my fault than yours)

Mathias- yes. i really do hate that. anyhow, there's no black in the sprite but i get your point. I'll try and fix that. anyway, you pretty much nailed the intended vibe, except emo but I'm guessing you just picked that up from the hair.
edit: s'more colour edits and outline messing
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 05:18:15 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline 32

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • @AngusDoolan
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19827.htm
    • angusdoolanart
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 05:50:33 am
When I look at the animation as a whole, and ignore the detail, it certainly looks like the legs straightening is moving his torso up correctly. But what you're doing is stretching the back, instead of moving the pelvis up. What you need to do is move the crotch up all the pixels your stretching on the abdomen, and leave the torso the same shape, the only way the torso would decompress like that is if he was straightening his back, and even then it would effect the animation differently. The same stretching is happening on the arm, instead of the arm stretching, it would stay more or less static and the pocket would move up with his hand. The other effect of moving him like this is that it makes it look like his legs are shrinking.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 06:03:38 am
when i do the same motion in a mirror, my back stretches slightly (because there's a small slouch) then the torso moves up.

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 06:19:41 am
I don't see more slouching when the back is shorter, it just looks like its stretching... Maybe mess around with the shading to make it look like there's more of a slouch?

Offline 32

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • @AngusDoolan
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19827.htm
    • angusdoolanart
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 06:30:48 am
When you straighten your legs though, your pelvis HAS to move up, it's basic geometry, it's really a matter of whether the increase in total height is caused more by the pelvis moving up, or the back straightening. And any more than a little amount of movement in the back seems like a lot of effort.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 01:30:30 pm
he's not exactly straightening his legs. I do an identical movement and my less barely raise at all. I'm not 100% sure why but that's what happens.

Offline 32

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • @AngusDoolan
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19827.htm
    • angusdoolanart
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #20 on: November 24, 2009, 01:44:35 pm
Well then the answer is not to raise the head so much. I think maybe your exaggerating the movement you see in the mirror way too much, I would think from the amount of bend in his knees to begin with, his crotch would raise 1 or 2 pixels. The back straightening just doesn't make a ton of sense to me, maybe I just have no idea what movement you're trying to get.

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #21 on: November 24, 2009, 01:53:53 pm
Looking at it, I see what you mean.
He's just straightening his legs loosely and then kind making his joint point back a little.

One thing I think would make it look less awkward is if you had the feet move, like having the heels lift up a bit when the legs are straightened loosely.


Edit:


EDIT2:

I really feel that you need to take more advantage of your colors.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 04:28:49 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #22 on: November 24, 2009, 02:17:28 pm

izzat better?
edit: no offense bro but that edit looks pretty weird. if you're going to remove some of the style, you pretty much have to get rid of all of it or it just looks out of place (the facelessness for example)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 02:19:00 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Rawsushi

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 185
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Terrormisu - The Art of B Rosaschi

Re: harmonious world

Reply #23 on: November 24, 2009, 04:33:20 pm


Quick edit.

The angle in which the feet are pointing freaked me out. When I stand, my feet tend to point...hm...  Maybe 45 - 90 degrees.

This is actually a bit hard to critique because as much as I want to help the the animating process, I don't understand what I'm animating and why. He's obviously doing a little bounce but... who does that? I made the bounce less bouncy in my edit, but I still think it'd be better to just have the guy stand still and maybe just animate him breathing.

Something else to keep in mind: The idea of adding subtle movement to the hair is nice, but it gives the illusion that there are gale-force winds. If this is for a game, the winds will change with the direction the character faces.

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #24 on: November 24, 2009, 05:01:03 pm
Yeah, emo cuz of the hair. Just a little.

Good point on the feet angle, rawsushi. Your stance looks more casual.

No hair highlightin'? The hair highlight could "move" across his hair like the wind is making little waves and the specular is riding the crest of each wave. Just a detail either way.

As for the usually awkward idle anim, why not break the typical breathing/twitching loop approach and make him do little some realistic movement every few seconds?, in the end creating an animation that's 30 seconds long with big pauses between movements, such as -
(think of a bored dude standing there waiting for someone) slightly switch stance a bit, shift weight to one leg and cross arms across chest, . . . wait wait wait . . . flip hair with hand . . . wait wait wait . . . check cell phone . . . wait wait wait . . . switch back to original stance, uncross arms back to pockets . . . LOOP.
Significantly more work but a significantly more life-like result.

I'm pretty sure this isn't for a game, it seems to get revised every 6 months.

hair highlight hair hlighlight highlight oif hair hairy highlits hariry highlioghts you need to hairily hairily highlight the sprite, thats right a a hairy highlight for the tuhna sprite, w/o it it's just not right, yet despite the absence of the hairy highlight I see youve finally graduated from your lite brite, plotting pegs breaking eggs, now you stand on kegs bobbing idly you slightly bend your legs .  thats what SHE said

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #25 on: November 24, 2009, 11:02:56 pm
its sort of for a game. its still very much in the planning stages though so it gets revised a lot. anyhow, it's just a breathing anim. I do like how your edit looks rawushi. I think I'll try making the bounce more subtle before removing it altogether.
mathias- I'm not too big on the hair highlights (thats actually the second edit i've gotten with one), they aren't really there in real life and it's super distracting on this sprite. as for movements, as i said before I'm gonna slow this down but after that I was planning on having a few movements like that. namely knuckle cracking and pushing his hair back. all of that stuff would be cool but it seems like an awful lot for something that would rarely be seen.

aaaaaand what the hell

edit:
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 12:32:47 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #26 on: November 25, 2009, 11:54:41 am
supershortcrit

at one time in the animation his arm just goes SUBPIXELFLICKER downwards super fast, very distracting, make it smoooth
' _ '

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #27 on: November 25, 2009, 01:48:59 pm
?

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: harmonious world

Reply #28 on: November 25, 2009, 02:08:47 pm
The timing on this is all weird. To bounce down like that he would actually have to force the downward movement.
The whole movement in this to me seems very unnatural and for the sake of movement. So far I think Rawsushi's edit is best and even that could probably be more subtle.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 02:22:46 pm
i think i can see what you mean but i'm not too sure on how to fix it

Offline Ben2theEdge

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • I'ma drink mah coffee!
    • View Profile
    • My Deviantart Gallery

Re: harmonious world

Reply #30 on: November 25, 2009, 03:10:56 pm
also something i tossed together for fun to show how this guy's evolved over the years


To be brutally honest I think I liked the direction you were taking the character before; I liked the sonic-the-hedgehog-tribute hair and the clothing wasn't ridiculously iconic, but it was still pretty good. You've been taking him in a much more generic direction to the point where now he just looks like a generic post-punk scene kid. This design doesn't really communicate anything about the character except that he's a generic post-punk scene kid... it's becoming even less of a character and more of an archetype. Maybe that's what you want, doesn't seem like much fun to me though. I've seen you do some pretty imaginative stuff so I'm a bit curious as to why you're moving away from that and into the realm of the mundane.
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: harmonious world

Reply #31 on: November 25, 2009, 04:06:50 pm
"realistic" probably would be the key word here. Tuna, I am making conjections but you probably come from a megaman board....right? Spriters there start copying the proportions or style of a given megaman game, and when they gain some confidence tend to go out of that and into trying to be more of just a normal artist instead of just a megaman spriter. I say that because I did that when I moved from a megaman board to this place...Tuna reminds me of me in his animations =)

Seen that way he's more of moving from one cliche way of seeing the world to another...but atleast now he tries to stand on his own feet. I dont know if this is what you're doing tuna, I at that time tended to make the characters a fantasy version of myself with superpowers....dont do that, either make pixel self-portraits or make characters with  backstories and clothing/demeanors different from yours, that way you're not left in the generic aspect that Ben mentioned between stylizing him and making him a "regular" guy

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #32 on: November 25, 2009, 11:50:57 pm
um. thats sort of creepy. anyhow, in some ways it is based off of me, mostly in appearance, but in general the character personality and backstory is different. The way the project is set up he's essentially the lone sane character in a realm of surreal wacky characters (including but not limited to an omnipotent clown, a walking zombie plague, a victorian era time lord, a girl who's punches explode every few hits, and one guy who's just batshit crazy) but he obviously has to kick ass or he would make a terrible beatemup character.
/shamelessexpositionandexcuses

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #33 on: November 26, 2009, 03:39:13 am
well, i fixed a few problems (the main one being the jacket) and added the necessary frames

i think (hope) i'm done with this pose, so unless there's any last minute objection, I'm gonna move on to the little idle animations

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #34 on: November 26, 2009, 02:20:06 pm
The sweater and the shirt look like the same piece of clothing because they end at the same point, and this line that seems to separate   the legs and the body. I'd made the shirt or the sweater end lower down.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #35 on: November 26, 2009, 02:29:13 pm
ooh, good call.

Offline DarkFalzX

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Attorney at LOL
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #36 on: November 30, 2009, 05:11:52 pm
I agree with both Conceit and Ben - the new character design is sort of unremarkable in any way. Nothing about his clothe, nor about his hair or posture says "unique player character" - he might as well be a background NPC cloned several dozen times throughout the game. Even if you wanted to move in a more realistically-proportioned direction, you should've studied character designs of SNK and Arcsys fighting games, trying to infuse your creation with eye-catching flair rather than burning mediocrity... unless that's the idea: )
In a world of bizarre characters you don't want your main guy to be the boring one,  right?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #37 on: November 30, 2009, 07:02:44 pm
um... kind of yeah. its like relatability, probably the same reason sol badguy and kyo kusanagi are some of the tamer characters in their respective series.
edit: i might play around with the design a bit to see if i can make it a little more iconic but not much will likely be changed

Offline Mike

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +0/-3
    • View Profile
    • Scribble onto the Abyss

Re: harmonious world

Reply #38 on: November 30, 2009, 07:32:13 pm
He might as well be achromatic with the way you have his colors desaturated so much.  I hope in your game the worlds he inhabits are extremely bright and colorful otherwise he is going to blend in like mad.  If not, might I suggest you give him one colorful element to his clothing.  A show piece if you will.  Maybe an orange jacket, or more colorful pants or something a long those lines.

Can we perhaps see what kind of background this character is going to be against?

Slight edit



I wish you luck with further animating this character.  You have your work cut out for you.  :P

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: harmonious world

Reply #39 on: November 30, 2009, 07:38:15 pm
um. thats sort of creepy. anyhow, in some ways it is based off of me, mostly in appearance, but in general the character personality and backstory is different.
That is exactly what I was trying to get to. Of course it is creepy, I wouldn't accept that's what I was doing while I was doing it, but now I can look back and see how that was wrong.

Now I ask you, this guy has a different backstory and personality from yours....so why in the hell should he reasemble you at all? Character designing, is taking whatever background and information you have the character and representing it visually trough his clothes, gestures, build, and whatever means you have at your disposal. So it is bad character design to place your reasemblance on top of a character that does not share your backstory or personality.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 07:42:32 pm by Conceit »

Offline Atnas

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1074
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • very daijōbs
    • paintbread
    • paintbread
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #40 on: November 30, 2009, 10:33:00 pm
Actually with mike's edit I realize it's not the clothes that make me really not like the character but it's the face. Or lack of face. Because of lack of haircut.  Seriously someone who can afford those hip pre torn jeans should be able to afford a haircut! Hair over an eye is one thing, a dome of hair over the entire head is just hilarious in a bad way, which is really ruining the likability of the character. I mean, it's not my place to crit the subject matter, just the art, but I wouldn't play a game with this character.

Besides that, he needs a mouth?

Offline Mike

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +0/-3
    • View Profile
    • Scribble onto the Abyss

Re: harmonious world

Reply #41 on: December 01, 2009, 04:21:35 am
I think its like a modified Castlevania style for the face to be featureless, but it doesn't work for this.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: harmonious world

Reply #42 on: December 01, 2009, 05:19:45 am


it's true, infinitely more likeable  :hehe:

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #43 on: December 01, 2009, 05:37:37 am
Lol, Helm.






EDIT
Lol, Tuna.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 10:59:09 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #44 on: December 01, 2009, 10:45:06 pm
ily helm

Offline EyeCraft

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • What are you scared of?
    • View Profile
    • Death By Dev

Re: harmonious world

Reply #45 on: December 02, 2009, 03:07:02 am
Just thought I'd add something that I was thinking about when I did my edit, and what I've noticed with other edits in this thread. This may or may not sound like a complete load of rubbish, but here goes  ;D



I read this article once about how Valve approached the readability of their characters in Team Fortress 2. They used contrast and brightness to push the viewers eye up to the chest and head of the characters. It's something that I've always kind of thought about with characters after reading it. Approaching them like mini compositions.

I've got 3 versions here, with kind of little swatches that (in my interperatation) summarise the value and contrast of particular sections of the sprites, and arrows indicating how these colours lead my eye around the subject.

I think CrazyMLC has done some very nice things with the legs in his 2 edits, particularly around the knees and thighs.

Basically, see how the shoes and shins are dim, and it moves up getting brighter and higher contrast until you hit the point you want the eye to settle at, then start getting dimmer again. Your version is the only one that does any good job of getting the eye to settle on the face, but the eye goes crazy across the rest of the sprite (my eyes do, anyway).

Regarding the issue of lack characterisation, I think its also his pose. Standing around with your hands in your pockets is just about as passive and ambient as you can get with a character. He seems to be communicating "hey, don't mind me, I'm just standing here," which doesn't really seem appropriate for a memorable character, let alone a main character.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 04:54:42 am by EyeCraft »

Offline Arachne

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 309
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • Retinal Eclipse

Re: harmonious world

Reply #46 on: December 02, 2009, 10:41:54 pm
Nice progress so far. :)



Not much in this edit that hasn't already been mentioned. I tried to simplify and get rid of jagged lines and near-black lines to clean and soften. Polish, polish, polish. ;D His glasses made it look a bit as if someone had just punched him in the face, so a bit more symmetry there would be nice, I think.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #47 on: December 02, 2009, 11:09:18 pm

i dont know why i haven't posted this yet. anyhow, I really like that edit, I'll try and mess around a bit.
edit: seriously, why was everybody using the red one, that was by far my least favourite

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #48 on: December 02, 2009, 11:24:17 pm
But purple instead? I guess those are shades he's got on, but I keep thinking they're huge bugged out eyes when I see them.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #49 on: December 03, 2009, 01:17:31 am

Offline Jeremy

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • howdy
    • pixellerjeremy
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/19218.htm
    • pixellerjeremy
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #50 on: December 03, 2009, 01:23:49 am
If the hood and hair are blowing, should the rest of the hoodie not also  ???

(Just to, y'know, make more work)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 01:42:56 am
you sicken me  :durr:

Offline WM

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • cubist
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #52 on: December 03, 2009, 01:49:49 am
 :lol: He makes a good point though!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #53 on: December 03, 2009, 02:24:06 am
and that's what hurts the most

Offline Dex

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ---
    • adamfergusonart
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/11794.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 03:38:49 am
Arachne's edit on the pants is very nice; not only is the stance a bit better, but the jaggies you have at the moment are mainly taken care of.

Look at her edit and see what you can improve upon- take time to smooth things out and like Arachne said: polish! You're doing good so far, though.

I personally would be distracted by the constant wind-flow in-game. It just seems to spastic for my taste, but it's your prerogative.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #55 on: December 03, 2009, 02:36:27 pm

more cleaning and a small stance change

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #56 on: December 04, 2009, 05:19:52 pm

Offline Photocopier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #57 on: December 04, 2009, 08:13:50 pm
It would be funnier if he used his other hand to brush his hair to the left, then it just blows over again, as if he can't stop it.

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #58 on: December 04, 2009, 11:20:27 pm

Okay, probably my last edit.
I made the part of the jeans around the ankles wider and bigger, on your versions they look like strechy pants! :D (AKA not like jeans.)
I used orange for the hoodie, because you can use those colors for the face and hair, etc. (The colors are multi-purpose.)
I made the legs closer together, and I changed the feet. (To give a more comfortable stance.)
I added in white cuffs on the hoodie so its easier to make out the hands.
I made the shoes brown to give it more balance.
I gave him a face!


Truth about why I've been giving so many edits: I really like the image, the design, etc.
I hope you keep going with this!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 11:33:29 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #59 on: December 04, 2009, 11:33:32 pm
okay, i do appreciate all these edits, but you're kind of completely changing it to be more like your style. anyway,

Okay, probably my last edit.
I made the part of the jeans around the ankles wider and bigger, on your versions they look like strechy pants! :D (AKA not like jeans.)
skinny jeans bro
I used orange for the hoodie, because you can use those colors for the face and hair, etc. (The colors are multi-purpose.)
faces aren't orange
I made the legs closer together, and I changed the feet. (To give a more comfortable stance.)
I added in white cuffs on the hoodie so its easier to make out the hands.
I made the shoes brown to give it more balance.
I gave him a face!
mine has a face

Truth about why I've been giving so many edits: I really like the image, the design, etc.
I hope you keep going with this!

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #60 on: December 05, 2009, 02:15:34 am
Tuna bro, no need to whine. It doesn't fit your style, just analyze it, say 'thanks for the edit mang' and see if it's got anything useful for you to study.

You don't need to 'push it away' or whine about him changing the style. Edits don't have to be a realization of your own ideals made by others because frankly, that's impossible.

I mean like seriously if faces aren't orange just don't make an orange face. Don't whine at the guy's edit 'cause he's trying to convince you that faces are orange'. I mean he isn't.

I'm whining at your whining, I like this, it's a whine-party. Let's add some cheese to this quality whine.

cheese: you're getting far with this bro, (I love the word bro) I dig it generally. I don't think his hair swipe is working a lot, it needs more .. fluffiness. Right now he sweeps it out of his face and ZOOM it goes back, it's more realistic that way but also less readable. Making him swipe it the other way and make the wind blow it back is a good suggestion, but I dunno if you can be assed to redo everything, heh
' _ '

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #61 on: December 05, 2009, 05:40:04 am
i uhm... wasn't trying to whine, though retrospectively i can see it looking like that. and i have been studying and using parts of his edits. i really was just trying to explain why i haven't taken much from his edits. ANYHOW ill work on the hair

Offline happymonster

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #62 on: December 05, 2009, 09:57:18 am
Edit of Arachne's edit.. Lowered the face and increased the head size. Tried to keep the suggestion of large anime eyes with adding more of a face. There are a lot of colours with similar luminance in the palette which made shading harder then I expected.

Offline Atnas

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1074
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • very daijōbs
    • paintbread
    • paintbread
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #63 on: December 05, 2009, 02:02:39 pm
I do not think that the worn out knee on his left leg is in the right place given how the leg is rotated.

Offline WM

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • cubist
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #64 on: December 05, 2009, 09:50:41 pm


...

I dont get why yo keep trying to use orange for the face; not only is it not a realistic skintone, it also matches the hair color exactly, leading to it looking like it's made out of chocolate.

Offline CrazyMLC

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #65 on: December 06, 2009, 01:10:31 am
Why does it have to be realistic?

Offline WM

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • cubist
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #66 on: December 06, 2009, 01:37:04 am
It doesn't -- you have the creative freedoms to do as you please, but based on Tuna's original intentions, it's not necessarily a step forward: even if it was to move away from realism, some representational qualities with the skin would take it a long way.

Oh, and just for the record, my main gripe about the skintone is that it matches the hair, which is passing up a great opportunity for some good complementaries or other colors that really build on each other. Maybe change the hair color then?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #67 on: December 09, 2009, 02:42:09 am

meet professor civil

Offline WM

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • cubist
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #68 on: December 10, 2009, 11:16:28 pm

meet professor civil

I think it is wonderful except for the face; not only is it devoid of any distinct features, but the features I can see make it look like his head is in profile, while the ear and shading make his head seem to be in 3/4.

I loved how you overcame this problem with your previous character. Maybe look back at what you did there to fit in that detail, and try to apply that here?

Also, maybe make his left (our right) foot point down a little like you did with your previous character so that they appear to be standing on the same plane (that is, of course, if they are going to be used is the same game/piece).

Offline EyeCraft

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • What are you scared of?
    • View Profile
    • Death By Dev

Re: harmonious world

Reply #69 on: December 11, 2009, 01:43:15 am
Great! Is this a replacement character or a separate character from the same setting? Either way this one has much more interest. Pose is superb.

Also, maybe make his left (our right) foot point down a little like you did with your previous character so that they appear to be standing on the same plane (that is, of course, if they are going to be used is the same game/piece).

Though that's right, and I agree, I get a feeling like it's going to make the character look off balance. I think you actually need to modify the projection/perspective of the character to match that of the previous character (which, naturally, will lead to the feet doing what has been suggested).

Colours are too monochromatic, imo. Brown suit, brown shoes, brown hair, (reasonably) brown skin.

You've got a distribution of highlight and shadow that is contributing to a noisy appearance. Take the waist, for example. Black lines, solid blocks of highlight, solid blocks of shadow, then the 2 super bright pixels of the wrist in a sea of darks. The wrinkles on the torso feel over-rendered, too. I do like the thighs, though, I think you've nailed that. The legs in general are solid, though the lower legs and knees could use a little more refinement. The knees are too sharp, and the midtone that comes into the shin areas could be cut down, especially on his right (our left) leg. I say black shoes, too, or at least very dark shoes.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #70 on: December 11, 2009, 06:00:25 am
eyecraft- not a replacement, just a different character. anyhow i tried to fix as much of that as i could.
WM- the problem with the face is there's so little space to work with and giving him eyes even 2 pixels large would kind of kill the classy look. still, i tried to fix the angle problem and give the nose more definition

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #71 on: December 12, 2009, 05:56:02 am
ok i messed with the shoes some more and used the blue to add more colour variety in the white hue shifts

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #72 on: January 03, 2010, 04:36:12 am
got my rear in gear and finished this

also i probably updated this some way or another

edit: oh yeah and here's a short version if you don't want to sit around waiting for 2 minutes
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 04:39:49 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #73 on: January 03, 2010, 06:57:19 am
Hehe, cool. During the knuckle crack his hair is less affected by the wind - only the edges animate. Left leg looks disjointed at hip. Probably a result of trying to make the skinny jeans as readible as possible.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #74 on: January 03, 2010, 04:40:57 pm
I'm afraid I can't see these characters existing within the same picturespace, not just for the different perspectives but also the radically different proportional systems, most notably around the head.

Also, what is this pose?  What does it communicate?  It feels exceptionally awkward to me, particularly the right arm (which also has dislocated/floating shoulder).
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #75 on: January 03, 2010, 08:06:51 pm
mathias- his left or our left?
ndchristie- not sure what you mean by the pose or the shoulder (hell i don't even know what character/shoulder you mean). i altered the proportions to suit the characters, the first one being more exaggerated, the second being more classy and dignified. i figured it was fine to do that in order to add personality

Offline Mathias

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • im not real
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/9542.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #76 on: January 03, 2010, 10:35:12 pm
I meant his left - the leg belonging to the shoe we can see the side of. I agree, these two chars do seem technically different.

Offline Photocopier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #77 on: January 03, 2010, 10:41:04 pm
I see what Mathias means, I think his left foot is too far turned, he looks like he's wearing it sideways.  :crazy:

but nice (and inspirational) work btw  :y:

Offline Souly

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Killer of threads.
    • View Profile
    • Punkys Portfolio

Re: harmonious world

Reply #78 on: January 06, 2010, 06:41:01 pm
I'm sorry but once again like I posted on TIG.
Your red guy HAS NO HANDS.
Or at least, no believable hands.


I'm just saying your so called "White gloved" hand looks nothing like a hand.
Mind you, the hand in my edit is huge.

Also he is still wearing moon boots.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:44:43 pm by Souly »

Offline Dex

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ---
    • adamfergusonart
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/11794.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #79 on: January 06, 2010, 09:11:03 pm
The problem with your edit is that the hand is too big and out of proportion with his small head. I agree that Tuna's doesn't look like a hand, though.

To be frank, I never really liked the suited guy. His pose is awkward, his foot is at a weird angle, and to be honest I don't think I can see a character (even if he is an NPC) standing like that in a game.

Otherwise this is looking nice, but I think you should go for less of a 'dynamic' pose and try to communicate the pose so it's believable, in character, and helps let the two characters seemingly exist in the same world.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #80 on: January 07, 2010, 04:36:50 am
ill work on the hand. i made a few fixes but ill post it when im done. anyway, im not really getting why you dont like the suit guy, you p. much said you don't like the pose, you don't like the pose, and you don't like the pose, which isn't even animated yet.
oh yeah and how could it be out of character when nobody knows anything about the character aside from the appearance?

Offline Dex

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ---
    • adamfergusonart
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/11794.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #81 on: January 07, 2010, 09:34:25 pm
The pixeling is good on him, and his appearance is nice as well, but as ndchristie said:

"I'm afraid I can't see these characters existing within the same picturespace, not just for the different perspectives but also the radically different proportional systems, most notably around the head."

They don't seem to work together as of now. The suited man's proportions are much different than the other guys', and even the feet don't exist on the same plane.

It's also been mentioned before that his pose is kind of awkward... maybe you should address ndchristie's post rather than mine, as his is more beneficial with information; he's pointing out how the character's pose doesn't really give off much of a feeling, and how the shoulder looks disjointed. All in all, I just think the pose is kind of weird and something I wouldn't see someone who was a main character or even anything else standing like. It also doesn't really matter about it being animated; that's not going to change his stance as it feels.

That aside, the 'cool' guy looks really nice. I like his knuckle-cracking animation especially.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #82 on: January 08, 2010, 12:23:32 am

im not super big on how the face came out but its better

Offline Tuna Unleashed

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #83 on: January 10, 2010, 07:54:47 pm
GUYS

TRUST ME IT'LL MAKE SENSE LATER

Offline Dex

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ---
    • adamfergusonart
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/11794.htm
    • View Profile

Re: harmonious world

Reply #84 on: January 11, 2010, 01:11:58 am
Ah, I like his face and glasses much more now. Onward!