AuthorTopic: [Novice Pixel Art]  (Read 30241 times)

Offline micintexp

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[Novice Pixel Art]

on: November 13, 2009, 02:01:39 am
Hello,Pupils.

Im a novice to pixel art and I would like to ask some tips on how to make a better tree don't worry about the grass and so :P

I just can't get the tree right and I have read most of the tutorials and so.

Here's the link to the trees I have build.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/2502337/1024/Picture-Box/BLL.png

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2502980/1024/Picture-Box/TT.png

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 10:50:17 am
Sorry to disappoint you but your tree is NPA (non-pixelart)

They are displayed in the Dream Maker on BYOND (I hate byond, sidenote)
Might want to upload  the original file (not .dmi but .png)

I advice you not to join the BYOND trend...filled with NPA or stolen sprites
I've been victim too hence I might take off alot of my sprites from PJ for example as it's a source for Narutards.

More ontopic:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8291.0

I advice you not to steal or base your tree on these, btw.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 10:57:29 am by Elk »
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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 11:02:34 am
To tell you the truth im asking for advices not asking for your comment if it's a non pixel art or not.

And I don't folow any kind of byond tutorials I only search for pixel tutorials in the google search bar and so.

This site was one of them;
http://www.gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_almighty_grass_tile.php


Okay Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 11:10:29 am by micintexp »

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 11:10:05 am
I told you how to improve it, most likely, follow the link

Pixelation  |  Art  |  Pixel Art | [Novice Pixel Art]

This forum is about pixelart...
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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 11:14:58 am
Anway I will keep try to do some new tree and so.

IM gonna try this one.
http://images.clipartof.com/small/13005-Big-Old-Oak-Tree-Clipart-Graphic-Illustration.jpg

But idc wich program it's in some way I just find byond easier,I don't folow there tutorials.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 12:24:21 pm
That was probably made in vector.
Not pixel art.

Most of the people here are only good with pixel art; and what you've posted throughout this thread is not pixel art.
It's hard to help you with subjects that we are not proficient with.

I recommend listening to Elk's advice and following this link:  http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8291.0
Read what people say on that topic; it will probably help you.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 12:30:13 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 12:32:52 pm
The reason is I don't get how to make that tree .

Thats why I have message him and so.

I can't find a easier tutorial.

So would it be best to look from a tree picture and try to draw it in pixels ?


Edit:
Other thing

Would it be better to draw a tree on photoshop and so then try to do it in pixel :D?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 12:56:42 pm by micintexp »

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 01:45:39 pm
That would possibly be waste of time or simply: a colorreduct-turnout.

If you don't know how to draw, then follow these steps (props to a random person that posted this somewhere sometime)

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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 08:22:40 pm
Thanks,But I still can't understand that circle.

Is it just stating you that you must study+practice then you're a diffrent skill and so.

If it's about that Its the same thing im doing :P

Here's a tree I have draw.

By trying to look from this one.

Its still not shaded tough,will do it tomorow.

Tree that I have look on :
http://www.sycamoretreechurch.com/gallery/lineart.jpg

My tree with colour  non shaded :
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/2507434/1024/Picture-Box/Non-Shaded.png

Offline Dusty

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 08:28:32 pm
It's a sort of joke of a graph, but at the same time very true. Basically the chart says for anyone actually interested in art, there is no 'finish line'. An artist will constantly start over and learn new things to further their understanding of art. Basically, an artist is always learning -- practice practice practice is the best way.

Offline Rydin

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 08:53:22 pm
If you put the address inside the img tag, it will show up on the forum.

Example:

Code: [Select]
[img]http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/2507434/1024/Picture-Box/Non-Shaded.png[/img]
This way we can see what you are posting.

Also, just show us the art.  We don't need to see that you're making in in Dream Maker.

Example:




 :)
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Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 10:15:41 pm
Try using a program more suited to an easy pixel work flow, like GraphicsGale, Pixen (mac), Pro Motion, or even just MS Paint. That program you're using seems to break everything into tiles and has no real 'canvas'. Not to mention an apparent lack of any sort of palette tools? This breaks up the work flow and distracts you from what you want to focus on... the art.

I also suggest finding some reading material on classic art and drawing. Learn how to see objects as 3D forms that are communicated by sections of light and shadow. Trees can actually be a very tricky subject. I recommend do some reading on drawing (study), and do a bunch of sketches with pencil of trees, focusing on the techniques you've read (practice). Once you've got a better understanding, you should be able to translate the concepts into pixels.

Really, starting off a pixel art piece is no real difference to any other material or medium. You decide your subject, basic palette, composition, then block in the major sections of light and shadow, then refine iteratively until you're satisfied the piece has reached its potential. I'm sure everyone has slightly different work flows, so asking what is the best way to start will give you a whole bunch of different answers.

I guess I've given you mine  :)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 10:18:32 pm by EyeCraft »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #12 on: November 14, 2009, 02:24:18 am
Most of the things you told me others have already told me.

And im already doing these stuffs since from the begining.

Sites I have look on in order to start my pixel season:

http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/index.html
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=Pixels+Tutorial
http://www.gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_almighty_grass_tile.php
http://tutorialblog.org/pixel-art-tutorials/
http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pixelart/Creating_Pixel_Art_Painting_Pixel_by_Pixel_Tips_and_Tutorials.htm
http://pixel.nascimpact.com/tut_iso.php

And I'm working with Byond  Maker because im learning on how to make pixels there in order to help other game developers and so.

If I use the other programs there's no other way I could master myself in Byond.




« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 02:30:44 am by micintexp »

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 02:27:21 am
If you make graphics in another program that doesn't mean you can't master byond. As long as you can import graphics you can still help other people.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 02:33:12 am
Well the problem of byond is way diffrent then the other programs,like you must work with each box and so

like this
-------------
I             I
I             I
I             I
I             I
-------------

So after im done doing it on ms paint I sitll need to know where to put it here and there.

But will try out with a diffrent program I gues.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 03:03:25 am
Ding!

I have done this one on Paint from Windows 7 :p

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 04:06:25 am
Non pixel-art. Looks like the brush tools you used have auto AA. Honestly, try GraphicsGale, you can turn on grid overlays which can help you cut out sections of the image in blocks. I do that in game making all the time.

Hmm, if you've been reading books/literature on drawing, then I think might need to read it again (or find better stuff). Your piece focuses on contour lines and colour, whereas you want to focus on form and values. There's no real light/shadow relationship in your rendering.



Please, follow Rydin's suggestion. It's much easier on everyone if you just show us the canvas, rather than a screenshot of the workspace.



Blocked in silhouette.



Laid down some basic light and shadow (think I ripped off one of Helm's trees a bit  :lol: ).

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 11:33:41 am
Oi im not done with that tree.

But will keep trying anyway :D

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 11:35:11 am

If I use the other programs there's no other way I could master myself in Byond.


That, my friend, will only limit yourself so much more in other stuff then.
In terms of canvas, colors and way way more, you'll never learn stuff that you could by using other programs that give you more freedom.
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Offline Photocopier

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 12:15:52 pm
windows seven paint is very NPA, I'd definitely suggest changing program.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 12:21:39 pm
So far GraphicsGale is the best program to work with pixeling and stuffs right?

If so then will start practing on GraphicsGale :)

Offline Gil

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 12:57:56 pm
It's probably the most complete free package yes.

Please be careful with answering "that's because it's not done yet". It's just an excuse and the flaws will not go away by putting extra time in these pieces. Try to deconstruct first, then construct.

Try making a tree in 5 seconds. Really, just open a decent program and try to make 10 trees in one minute and make sure they're alll different trees. After a while, you'll be drawing more organic shapes. Make sure to note that trees have holes in them, you can see right through them usually. Never start a tree from a blob.

Example:



These look crappy, yes, but they provide a nice enough base to work off. Because I created each one in a timespan of 5 seconds, I didn't allow myself to think about it. If you look at different kinds of trees first for a while, study them, look how they grow, where the leaves start and end, then the result will be better.

Oh, btw, always use a tinted background, never pure white.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 01:05:15 pm
Is not an excuse.
I was planning to continue editing that tree ....
Why peoples always tells me I comes with a excuse since I didn't..

Offline Gil

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 05:35:39 pm
I made a whole helpful post and you get defensive about one line in it :n:

As I said, start over, because the fundamental shape of the tree is wrong. It doesn't look like a tree and you won't make it look like one by incrementing small edits on top.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 06:45:33 pm
Made another tree,but still need to add the leafs.

I need to resize the leafs too because they are too big.




Will add the leafs later or tomorow.



 

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 07:01:45 pm
Now you're heading in the right direction :)
Be careful with the coloramount
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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #26 on: November 14, 2009, 07:15:47 pm
If im right I used 4 diffrent brown colours for the trunk.

Im still reading tutorials on how to put the leafs here and there ehehee'.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 07:25:24 pm by micintexp »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 04:07:49 am
Okay,Here's the outcome of the tree.



What you guys think?

Offline bgill31

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #28 on: November 15, 2009, 05:21:45 am
Looks like the tree will fall soon.  I would make the bottom of the tree bigger like this



Also each Leaves should kind of 'droop' down from each branch like the castlevania tree
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 05:24:41 am by bgill31 »

Offline Crow

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #29 on: November 15, 2009, 09:47:56 am
While pixeling leaves separately and then copy and pasting them onto the trunk can be an okay'ish technique sometime, I don't think it works here. Also, you have to keep in mind light and shadow. Currently, your tree is very flat. See the Seiken Densetsu 2 tree in the image bgill31 posted for reference.
I disagree with bgill31's statement that the tree looks like it's going to fall over though. I've seen quite a bunch of trees like that, and it makes sense, too, since their roots are quite deep in the ground.
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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #30 on: November 15, 2009, 12:47:22 pm
Thanks for the tips will redo the tree :).

Probably going to make smaller leaves.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #31 on: November 15, 2009, 08:50:35 pm
What you guys think of this grass?

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #32 on: November 15, 2009, 09:09:54 pm
your not going about making your tree in a very painterly way, your thinking about it too much like doing a drawing, when in fact pixels behave a lot more like paint than pencil.
stop doing outlines, stop using the pencil tool, and stop copy pasting stuff all over other stuff.

take a small brush, get 3 colours, one green and one brown, and one colour of your choice for the background, and draw a brown stick, then blobs of green. repeat until u get something that has the form of a tree u like, save. then take a pencil tool, select one of the colours and add/ subtract to the blobs, the trunk/branches to make them less blobby at that small one pixel scale, work like this until u get a result your happy with, save again. post your picture as of then here, and well critique you on how it looks what you should change ect, and finally you can begin shading. YOU NEVER DRAW ON OUTLINE FOR ANYTHING, EVER for this exercise at least.
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #33 on: November 15, 2009, 09:56:04 pm
So far im just doing as evreone is telling me to do .

Isn't it just better telling me what to fix now here and there.

I'm using this tutorial
http://www.freewebs.com/land-of-enchantment/treetut.html
Will post my last copy paste work then will redraw another tree.

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #34 on: November 15, 2009, 10:00:04 pm
So far im just doing as evreone is telling me to do .

Isn't it just better telling me what to fix now here and there.

I'm using this tutorial
http://www.freewebs.com/land-of-enchantment/treetut.html
Will post my last copy paste work then will redraw another tree.


NO its not better, because im sorry to say but what you have now is pretty bad and fixing it isn't an option because its already over rendered, and way too busy.
and stop following tuts, because you will get the result of whats in the tut, and that tuts result is very crappy. the creator knows nothing about pixel art and this shows in the way hes pillowshaded and through his workflow.
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #35 on: November 15, 2009, 10:13:01 pm
I gues will just get CS 4 then work on trees there.

Thanks for the comments peeps.

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #36 on: November 15, 2009, 10:15:18 pm
actually ms paint is better suited to this than Photoshop will ever be. and a better tool wont give you better results.  :y:
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #37 on: November 15, 2009, 10:21:39 pm
I have windows 7 Paint program.

Someone told me I better don't use it ...
Thats why im using graphicsgale.

Now Now wich program to use,you guys are confusing me :-\

Offline Photocopier

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #38 on: November 15, 2009, 10:53:31 pm
I use graphics gale or promotion.

@QuaziGNRLnose - one word; Jalonso

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #39 on: November 15, 2009, 11:39:28 pm
i didn't catch the part about windows 7 excuse me. use graphics gale its an even better choice than paint, ps cs4 isnt.

im not entirels sure what u meant, but...
i dont think thats Jalonso, and even if it is my statement wouldve held true, its the art that counts not the artist. not to mention that the article is almost 5 years old, and looking at his current work compared to that shows a big difference in skill. just because someone known made an tut doesn't necessarily mean that tut still has merit.
if this isnt what you meant just disregard the rant   :yell:
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #40 on: November 15, 2009, 11:50:50 pm
Guys can we stay on-topic now?

What you guys think of the so called grass that I did lol.

Thats my first version o.o.

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #41 on: November 16, 2009, 03:16:01 am
and stop following tuts, because you will get the result of whats in the tut, and that tuts result is very crappy.

Indeed. You should really get tutorials out of your mindset. You need to find art books and materials, because they focus on art fundamentals. If you have no grasp of art fundamentals, you're dead in your tracks.

The grass doesn't really come across as grass. Looks more like a thick carpet of fallen leaves. Or ivy on a wall. Try looking at a field and see what the grass looks like. It's large sections of colour, basically. You get close and its blades that grow in patches and tufts. It depends what scale you want to do it at, but you'll be somewhere between those 2, I imagine.

So far im just doing as evreone is telling me to do .

Isn't it just better telling me what to fix now here and there.

Maybe you're doing what you think other people mean in terms of what you understand about artistic process (which appears to be minimal;  you even have "novice" in the title of the thread!). If you say you're listening, then you must be misinterpreting what we're suggesting. Just about everyone that has posted here seems to be in agreement with each other. There's a consensus on the critique, so trying to tell us how to critique isn't the solution (not to mention this isn't our first rodeo with critique, so to speak). If you can't understand our critique, and you're genuinely listening, then it's clear that you need an expansion of knowledge to proceed.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #42 on: November 16, 2009, 09:50:03 am
Probably the reason Im  not understanding you guys because,idk what you guys realy want to tell me.
Im not realy a english persoon,im still studying for it :P.

The other reason>I don't realy have a pixel art book or the way to do it and so.

Thats why im reading tutorials and other things that could tell me what pixel art is realy based on.

Untill now im practing before I start the school about 2D~4D,wich will take probably 3-4 years for me to get there .

But will see if I can understand the tips you guys are giving me.

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #43 on: November 16, 2009, 09:59:41 am
Not pixel-art books, art books. Pixel art is based on art fundamentals. That's why I'm saying leave tutorials, they usually don't have the correct focus.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #44 on: November 16, 2009, 10:05:55 am
So I schould just focus on making something with my own thinking?

Like draw it in real life then try to make it in pixels?

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #45 on: November 16, 2009, 10:14:12 am
Imagine it as if it were real - then draw it.

I think that all art is really connected. If you're good at one section of art it will be easier to get started with the next section.
Think of some form of art you're good at. Drawing? Sketching? Painting? Whatever it is, practice it. I think it will make other forms of art, like pixel art, easier to master.

For example; I got started with art when doodling in class. I never even really started pixel art until I had gotten decent at sketching/drawing.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 10:19:33 am by CrazyMLC »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #46 on: November 16, 2009, 11:40:12 pm


What about this one?

I didn't folow any kind of tutorials just have made it with my own way of thinking.

Offline Stratto

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #47 on: November 16, 2009, 11:59:19 pm
the problem with that tree, is that it looks mirrored, and shouldn't be.
Take a look at photographs of real trees, and use them as an inspiration of what a real tree looks like.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #48 on: November 17, 2009, 12:49:50 am
Idk why,but I tried to do that today but it still didn't get right.
Im trying for the oak tree.



They are nowhere alike but will try again tomorow.

Each day I dedicate my time on pixeling a tree,since I got school.

I take about 1-2 hours to make a tree o.o.

Im epic slow I Know.


Edit:What you guys think of this tree trunk?

Non-Shaded 'Ignore the light brown filled inside the trunk'


Shaded


Shaded with background

« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 01:43:18 am by micintexp »

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #49 on: November 17, 2009, 01:49:10 am
Tree trunks get thinner from root to branch tip. Your one has a bit in the middle that goes thin, then it gets thicker again, which is quite unnatural. Also all the branches have a uniform thickness along their entire length, but branches should taper. Think of branches like mini trunks stuck on to a bigger trunk. They all follow very similar patterns.

Also, note in your reference of the oak tree how much space the branches occupy compared to the trunk. Compare the heights; the trunk is only about 1/4 of the total height of the tree! In your piece its about half the height.

As for shading, the lines you've added to communicate texture destroy any volume. You're also missing shadow. You should try to define things with shadow more than highlight.

Good progress, though  :y:

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #50 on: November 17, 2009, 02:35:06 am
Like this?

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #51 on: November 17, 2009, 03:05:24 am


DO LIKE THIS!!!! stop using outlines, and use a brush instead! ur results gonna suck be and be difficult to expand on the way your working right now!
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #52 on: November 17, 2009, 03:17:12 am
nose,let the others critique my work,Thanks.

Learn to read,The Trunk is not coloured,just the outlines I have draw for the others to tell me if it's a right way or not.

That picture you posted that dude used pixels not burshes he use GraphicsGale,And Only with a pencil tool.

And so far my result won't sucks with only a pencil tool.
If it would suck,Scrib wouldn't have done this with just a pencil tool.
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8291.0
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 03:20:54 am by micintexp »

Offline LoTekK

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #53 on: November 17, 2009, 03:36:08 am
You actually seem to have lost the plot of the very thread you linked to. Quazi's point is that you should focus more on overall construction, instead of linework. In the thread you linked to, note that Scriblette doesn't start from an outlined tree that he then goes ahead and colors and shades. He starts with a rough paint of the object, with some basic lights and darks, after which he goes in and refines. It's entirely possible to start with linework, but you really need to have your construction and observation skills down pat before you can do so properly. Start with a big pixel brush, say a round 5-pixel brush in GG. Block in a couple of trees, using reference to get the overall shapes correct. Don't worry about clean lines yet. Once you've gotten comfortable with representing the shapes, you can go in and refine the work at a pixel level.

quick example (bit sloppy and skips the refining step):

Offline Jad

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #54 on: November 17, 2009, 11:18:47 am
micintexp, who is allowed to say what is not decided by you, Quazignrlnose is allowed to say whatever he/she wants as long as it's not offensive or off-topic, etc.

If you feel that someone's post is offensive or shouldn't have been posted, please use the report function of the forum, and us mods will take care of it.

Also you're misunderstanding what he's trying to tell you. You're using a 1 pixel wide brush (or pencil, or whatever you'd like to call it) to draw outlines of your tree, and then you fill it in.

He's suggesting that you draw the tree as a solid shape, so that instead of having one color for the outline and one for the filling, you use one color for all of it when you draw the shape, after that you can add more colors.

The problem with your latest tree is that the small branches still vary much in size, and the problem might be because it's hard to draw the shapes right from the beginning if you're starting with the outline.

Thus I really agree with nose, he meant to use a WIDER brush (and use the pencil tool) not to use any special kinds of brushes. Please try to use a wider brush and draw the shape of the tree before continuing. You're showing good progress, please continue to work hard.

Also be nice to the people trying to help you, don't take out your frustration on them.


...



Aaalso QuaziGNRLnose, try to be a little more polite when offering critique, since it's probably better recieved if not coated in your own frustration, kay? : D
' _ '

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #55 on: November 17, 2009, 05:57:57 pm
I'm trying my best to be nice,but sometimes peoples just come in a way of writing that makes me frustrated or sad you know what I mean...

Like they just tell me "Do it like this!!" its like a offense to me.

But im trying my best again to try for another tree,will try my best to stick calm and so.

Today I have walk to certain trees in real life to watch how the leafs are builded and so.


On-Topic:

So the point is I schould just draw a tree with a pencil size of 5 and colour it with the same colour then try where to put the brench and so?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 06:03:20 pm by micintexp »

Offline Helm

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #56 on: November 17, 2009, 05:58:58 pm
I'm trying my best to be nice,but sometimes peoples just come in a way of writing that makes me frustrated or sad you know what I mean...

Like they just tell me "Do it like this!!" its like a offense to me.

Sounds like your problem, not theirs so please try to remain calm when receiving criticism.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #57 on: November 17, 2009, 06:17:41 pm


Something anywhere near like this ?

Offline Jad

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #58 on: November 17, 2009, 07:41:47 pm
the branching works better now, I like that! Good job.

Biggest problem at the moment is that branches are the exact same width, also I like the ones where the small branches split earlier - anyways make the branches thicker gradually as they get close to the main trunk. Also .. more branches!

(actually focus on the branches closest to the trunk, make them thicker, you'll want to add leaves soon anyways ' u '
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 07:43:27 pm by Jad »
' _ '

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #59 on: November 17, 2009, 08:23:19 pm
Im still studying my english.

SO what does thicker means ?

And what does Width means?

Edit:I didn't know what the words mean but anyway.

Anything near like this?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 09:00:35 pm by micintexp »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #60 on: November 18, 2009, 09:43:23 am
Any tips or advices or comments on the last trunk?

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #61 on: November 18, 2009, 10:14:19 am
SO what does thicker means ?

And what does Width means?
Width means/refers to how big sideways, or horizontally, something is. Like how long that image is from the left to right.
Height means/refers to how tall, or how big vertically, something is. Like how long that image is from top to bottom.
An easy way to put it is the way to find a square's area if height X width.

Thickness refers to the diameter of an object.
Thicker means to make an larger by making it fatter.

Offline LoTekK

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #62 on: November 18, 2009, 10:48:44 am

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #63 on: November 18, 2009, 10:50:39 am
quick doodle



Should make it more plastic and less geometric
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Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #64 on: November 18, 2009, 01:56:33 pm
I sorry i came off rude, I generally have a tone like that in the way I type since i go straight to the point. your misunderstanding us right now as well tho, don't use the brush like a pencil, use the brush as the everything!! to "paint" rather than to
draw".
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #65 on: November 18, 2009, 05:53:05 pm
Oh thats some nice tips,Thanks :).


But for some odd reason I just can't handle it with 5 brush size ._.'

Acualy I can draw a better tree in real life but I still make it crappy in GG .

I even colour them z,z' with dark light spots and all,just I don't add leaves and so ehehe'.


Edit:


?=Light Green
!=Mid Green
i=Dark Green


And some brench parts will be remove the ones with lines on it will be removed when I shade it for it to look like its going below the leaves and so.
Still need to fix the trunk a but.



« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 07:47:18 pm by micintexp »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #66 on: November 18, 2009, 09:30:31 pm
Anyone can like draw another tree with there leaves and other stuffs so I can have a look to see how exactly mine schould turn out lol.

I just can't colour it for some odd reason,idk how it schould be realy >_>'

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #67 on: November 18, 2009, 09:38:56 pm
I think it's really time for you to look at the foliage thread I've posted earlier...
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Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #68 on: November 18, 2009, 09:47:12 pm
You mean Schrib Thread?

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #69 on: November 18, 2009, 10:50:50 pm
your trying way too hard to do things the hard the way!, that last one was pretty good, but even still you skip to the rendering phase (shading and adding detail is what it means, since i now know you're learning English) way too early. drawing with one colour to get a nice form, and removing from that form by drawing with the bg colour over it will get you refined shape that'll look nicer than lines with a fill like you're doing now. you can render all the details u want to later on and we can help you with that a bunch!
Originally posted by Jeff

I AM A GIANT DONUT MANATEE

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #70 on: November 18, 2009, 10:58:14 pm
I Still didn't shade it yet wich im busy doing atm.

IM watching a example of Schrib thread how exactly to shade and all.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #71 on: November 18, 2009, 11:27:59 pm

« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 02:07:04 am by micintexp »

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #72 on: November 19, 2009, 02:06:41 am


Am I going to the right way?

If not please let me know.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 02:08:46 am by micintexp »

Offline Keizgon

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #73 on: November 19, 2009, 03:01:45 am
Quote
If I use the other programs there's no other way I could master myself in Byond.

Byond has it as a convienience tool for small editing, really. I frequent Byond, however rarely, and I use GIMP. Just because I can't stand BYOND's little pixel editor doesn't mean I'm a horrible artist. (check my deviantart if you want to compare, it's on my website link here).

To respond to your last post: No you're not. The one before this post had better contrast between color, really. If you're trying to go for a leafy visual, I recommend trying to actually draw a leaf, and small leaves to form patterns, before you draw the tree. IMHO, you should ignore the shading and work with the outline first. Your outline is disproportioned on many levels. For starters trees usually show branches for some detail. Yours looks like it's psyically uncertain of where all the leaves are from. I'm sure there are cartoony appearances like this, but if you're going for a realistic approach, got to show those branches.

Did you draw the one before these 2? Because if you're going for a cartoony approach, that is more of a way to go than what you're doing now with these last 2.

Quote
But for some odd reason I just can't handle it with 5 brush size ._.'

Sometimes you have to go lower. I personally use brush size 1 for all my drawing/details (excluding large parts of coloring of course). It takes time, just be patient. I think you're just trying to rush your way through this. It isn't easy, but you'll get it down!

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #74 on: November 19, 2009, 03:16:06 am
Lets not talk on the byond program now,that was a old discussion.


The tree im gonna try this one without branches,not realy wanted to put leaves since you need the branches in order to know where you want to put the leaves and all,more like trying to go this one as one of the cartoon trees and so.
Something near the line like this




« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 03:18:18 am by micintexp »

Offline Keizgon

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #75 on: November 19, 2009, 03:33:04 am
You're changing your perspective again? No...this is why you're going all over the place. Stay with 1 source (just pick something realistic, not a cartoony drawing like that it's a horrible example!) and focus on what you're trying to achieve. Don't skip something, you're trying to learn it! The closer to realism is more professional than any cartoon drawing.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #76 on: November 19, 2009, 04:05:02 am
I think that you need a sense of reality to bend reality.

Start with the basics, do it the average way, the standard way.
Then you can adapt it to what you want, and do it your own way.


Please find a picture of a tree and try to imitate it, micintexp.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 04:06:39 am by CrazyMLC »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #77 on: November 19, 2009, 04:10:55 am
see, that tree there is a caricture of real trees. Now, if you go and copy someone else's caricature...you're just passing on judgement, you're not making your own statement. Go and take a picture of a tree, and draw what YOU think it should look like if you wanted to draw it without singling out every little leaf. You might learn that maybe doing every leaf wasnt really that hard!

Offline LoTekK

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #78 on: November 19, 2009, 08:53:08 am
Quote
Acualy I can draw a better tree in real life but I still make it crappy in GG .
Scan/take a photo of a tree sketch and show it in your next post, so we can at least see just how much help you need with fundamentals.

Pixel-specific, work smaller. Really. It's a lot less painful to work small, work fast, and if it's a lost cause, you can toss it without having spent a long time pixelling a large piece. The animated gif I posted earlier was 32x32, which allowed me to make a really quick animated example that wouldn't take too much time to clean up and refine. I'll say it again: work smaller.

Additional bonus to working smaller: you can actually look at proper pixel placement/relation, which is effectively the whole point of pixel art.

edit:
Figured I could use the practise myself, so a quick example, this time with reference, and slightly bigger (still only 64x64, as opposed to the 200x200 pieces you insist on working on)

ref: http://www.happyvalleyfdn.org/images/harris-walnut_tree.jpg



Again, this is sans refinement. It's just a quick block-in to show you what people are trying to say about focusing on the big shapes, getting the form down, instead of sweating the little things like lines, which are useless without structure. The main takeaways from this are:

1. work loosely for now, get the overall structure correct
2. USE REFERENCE. (and I mean photos, not illustrations that other artists have done)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 09:27:07 am by LoTekK »

Offline Elk

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #79 on: November 19, 2009, 09:00:40 am
Totally agree with Conceit,
and don't always ask "Is this the right way?"
Get some self-criticism
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Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #80 on: November 19, 2009, 09:41:49 am
As for the self-criticism bit:
I have no formal training in art, I just draw it, then I look at it and honestly try to decide 'Does what I just added in suck?'
If it does, then I try again. Trail and error, my friend, trial and error.

A good way to become your own critic is to set a goal, set a standard for yourself. How good do you want your art to be?

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #81 on: November 19, 2009, 09:43:14 am
Oi,I just ment the way they have colour it.

My shape of my tree is not based on that picture.

I have draw my last tree without watching a picture,but firstly I have hand draw it first.

But it have branches in the one I have hand draw,wich I didn't add on that tree.

If only my printer could scan I could have show you guys the trees I draw in real life and see the big diffrence I do in GG.


Edit:Oh well when I get back from school I will try to draw another tree by watching a in real life tree.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 09:50:38 am by micintexp »

Offline LoTekK

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #82 on: November 19, 2009, 09:48:43 am
I have draw my last tree without watching a picture,but firstly I have hand draw it first.

That's really not going to help you. Use photographic reference, otherwise you'll just end up drawing what you /think/ a tree looks like, instead of an actual tree. Better yet, take your sketchbook outside, and draw some trees from real life.

Offline fortunato

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #83 on: November 19, 2009, 06:58:37 pm
i think the problem is that you guys may be giving him a kind of a hard time. the value of honest criticism is like no other, yes, but you must consider patience. now im no mod here but it just seems like are being a BIT impatient with this guy; continued impatience could make him quit or give up. maybe if something you explain to him doesnt ring a bell the first time, you could try it in a different way? everybodys different. i dont want to come off as trying to sound like mother theresa or something but come on! give the guy some slack. id say hes made some great progress.
now that doesnt undermine the fact that you guys are right. micintexp... drawing is tough. and you know, maybe you are going about it the wrong way. not that theres a right way, but there are certainly not so good paths. i think what people are trying to say is stop copying other peoples artwork. this is what i used to do... i would copy other peoples comics or drawings (with outlines of course) and i would say look i can draw! this is good i guess cause a big component of drawing is to be able to copy/draw what you see onto paper (think about it... copying someone elses drawing takes a similar mechanism of mimicking than it does to copy anything else). though what you get is just a copy of someone elses work, someone elses interpretation of a real life thing. now what if i told you to go draw a real tree? like, to go outside and see a tree, and just draw it? seriously. no pixel art here, just take a paper and pen. do this. take a paper and pencil, go outside, find a tree, then draw it. do this over and over. allow it to change the way you see things... you'll see results if you do it right.
but i dunno, most of that post is bullshit lol. go here:
http://www.learn-to-draw.com/drawing-basics/
read it. do all of what it says. and really immerse yourself in this! dive in, bathe in this shit (that probably came off as really weird to you considering you must be foreign... lol). take an art class or something. be around artsy people. you will learn much faster that way. i hope this helps. just hold off on the tree for a while. im just concerned that youre not going to get the level of success you wanted (or any at all, even :( ) and you'll give up. and thats not what i want to happen. so go to that website and learn; just do it.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #84 on: November 19, 2009, 08:12:09 pm
The truth is I can't go to a art school untill about 3-4 years or so.

I still need to finish certain schools and reach to the required age in order to go to that school and so.

Thats why im practing it on my own.

And ye the reason I can't draw a tree because I just don't get it how it works.

Im not really getting all these comments and all.

In order for me to get to know what they mean they schould atleast build up a tree or so.

Remeber you guys are pro im not,IM still a novice more like a noob wich doesn't know anything about pixel art .

As I know pixel art is like a line art work and all.

I have read some descriptions about it.

The reason I wanted to pixel because I play 2D graphics game from byond and certain NDS games and all.

fortunato might be right in some way , the way you guys are giving me the comments doesn't let me get wat realy to do and all.

Offline fortunato

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #85 on: November 19, 2009, 09:50:46 pm
i know. im sorry i wish i could really understand and connect with you better; sadly ive got some real stuff on my mind and that gets in the way of really helping you out.
my best advice i could give you now is to go to this site: http://www.learn-to-draw.com/drawing-basics/ do the exercises and you WILL improve. im sorry. i dont want you to feel alone in this drawing world of yours, i really dont! but sadly sometimes things are like this. just go to that site, do the exercises and come back. they will help, they really will. i promise. try to stay away from pixel art for just a little while, it is a bit too advanced i would say. limiting yourself to one medium (especially one like pixel art that can be all ABOUT limitations) can and will limit your growth as an artist and leave you struggling. i know youre having trouble understanding this so i understand if this is confusing. what im saying is this: stop pixel art. for a little bit. focus on DRAWING. and dont do it for me, or us; do it for YOURSELF. do what YOU want to do in drawing. go out and get some paper and a pencil and just draw. and remember, do those exercises on the webpage i showed you. and dont half ass it either! REALLY TRY, really just do them! they are important and until you realize the importance of learning the basics and drawing realistically, only then will you really be able to draw what you want and seemingly 'bend reality' with your drawings and your art. now go to that website and do what it says. then you can come back to pixel art and you'll be amazed at the improvements. until then, good luck my friend! only you have the power to really take this shit into your own hands. peace.

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #86 on: November 19, 2009, 09:57:32 pm
Art School

What kind of shit is this...
Do you imagine that at most art schools you learn how to do shit sculptures and pop/abstract art?
Art School doesn't help you, maybe a little but you could learn way way way faster if you found your own barriers and learn types to teach yourself, believe me...
All you need is the motivation to draw, draw, and nothing else but draw :)

I believe in a world of "skills" and not "titles"

You're one of these guys that tempt me to write a book again...I might really do it
Will start tomorrow with writing a description for you
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 10:02:22 pm by Elk »
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Offline Helm

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #87 on: November 19, 2009, 10:22:51 pm
Is motivation a thing you can just pressure yourself to summon? If you do anything enough you're bound to get better at it, I think most would agree, but a school provides a context in which one can focus what in real life is a limited amount of energy into a single doctorine, for a while. I bailed through my art school because I was displeased with the program, but the two years I spent there certainly let me focus my life in learning to draw, even if I did it on my own in the end.

So 'GET WILLPOWER, DUDE' isn't perhaps the most helpful of advice. And visiting a website that teaches drawing with a method is. Who knows.

I'm touched by fortunato's posts, but I feel in the end Pixelation isn't here to help anyone not sink to the bottom, it's here to help people who are proficient at swimming, learn to do breaststroke or some other technique, if you catch my drift.

If someone's going to give up drawing because of harsh critique, they probably are better off without it, just a thought.

Offline micintexp

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #88 on: November 19, 2009, 11:17:02 pm
This thread can be closed.

I will take a break on pixel art untill I can draw a little more better in real life.

Im gonna take that site advice.


Thank You.

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #89 on: November 20, 2009, 12:08:36 am
Is motivation a thing you can just pressure yourself to summon? If you do anything enough you're bound to get better at it, I think most would agree, but a school provides a context in which one can focus what in real life is a limited amount of energy into a single doctorine, for a while. I bailed through my art school because I was displeased with the program, but the two years I spent there certainly let me focus my life in learning to draw, even if I did it on my own in the end.

So 'GET WILLPOWER, DUDE' isn't perhaps the most helpful of advice. And visiting a website that teaches drawing with a method is. Who knows.

I'm touched by fortunato's posts, but I feel in the end Pixelation isn't here to help anyone not sink to the bottom, it's here to help people who are proficient at swimming, learn to do breaststroke or some other technique, if you catch my drift.

If someone's going to give up drawing because of harsh critique, they probably are better off without it, just a thought.
def, but people ARE people, you know. and they are/can be sensitive. im just sayin, i think a big part of the best critiques is the support element too, what an artist (and any human in any field) REALLY needs. would half of us be here today if we didnt get some encouragement along the line? and who DOESNT smile when they hear a 'i really like this, keep going' or a 'youre definitely on the right track'? yes maybe we only want to hear the positives sometimes but im just saying, a balance of both is, i'd say, required in a good critique. the good is just as important as the bad, especially in a seemingly cold world like ours.
now that is, not to say, that some of us do need a reall good kick in the pants once in a while hehehe
sorry if that came off as arguing with you helm; did not mean anything of the sort. just statin my thoughts
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 12:10:09 am by fortunato »

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #90 on: November 20, 2009, 02:11:43 am
I'd say Pixelation does have a certain entry level. The entry level is not based on art skills, but the expectation that the new member is able to evolve his art based on process of art critique and examples. The original poster received critique and workflow examples, but wasn't able to use these as a tool to better his art yet, so we can sugar coat it all you want, fortunato, it's just not going to work (yet).

I approve of micintexp's decision to further his studies in traditional art first

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #91 on: November 20, 2009, 02:13:34 am
I don't think he's sugar-coating anything, and I certainly think there's been progress in this thread. Fortunato, I am not in disagreement with what you say at all. Encouragement is certainly needed in the critique process.

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #92 on: November 20, 2009, 02:20:24 am
I was just pointing out that extra encouragement wasn't really going to help in terms of getting micintexp improve more, though I obviously agree that encouragement is a valid part of art critique (and has been in the Pixelation codex of proper critique since the beginning of the forum too).

I don't necessarily agree with what fortunato is saying, just pointing out that it won't actually help micintexp to improve. Encouragement does exactly that, it encourages the poster to continue bettering the work. It doesn't improve the usefulness of the critique itself if it can't be properly understood yet.

I'm sure micintexp will eventually get it though, since he's shown that he is actually looking for references, has a notion about what volume is and how it works.

Am I making sense?

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #93 on: November 20, 2009, 05:20:13 am
word. you are gil dont worry. now im no mod but i think maybe its time for us to let this one go... this is a tense thread
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 05:24:56 am by fortunato »

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #94 on: November 20, 2009, 10:09:57 am
I must apologize before it's closed.

I agree with Helm, I expressed myself a little wrong when I said art schools are shit, I'm just saying that certain projects at that kind of school can be limiting yourself but that really depends on the school and teachers and stuff...

:)
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Offline Jad

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Re: [Novice Pixel Art]

Reply #95 on: November 20, 2009, 07:53:25 pm
As per micintexp's personal request I'll close this thread.

Good feedback, everyone, even though the atmosphere did get a bit tense!

micintexp, good luck with your art practice. With the tenacity and devotion you've shown you'll do fine.
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