[WIP] Platformer main character sprite. need guidance.

[Gizmonicgamer]

Ignore everything in the quote: thats old.

The one on the left is an edit I made, and the one on the right is the original. Unfortunately, I feel that there are still some problems with the edit.

Basically, to me it looks like the anatomy is slightly off in some regard, and I can't quite place how or fix it without making any massive changes. I don't want to make any massive changes because I've already got a good portion of the animations done - so a new sprite altogether is probably out of the question - but I can easily adjust for some relatively minor changes though, like the ones I've been making. The game is very desaturated, hence the palette.

Edits would be greatly appreciated, though even simple critique will suffice.

C+C?

-sept 10th 2009-
Okay.

I have this sprite, and I feel its coming out pretty well - it has much better shape, definition and coloring then the previous sprite and previous incarnations of this sprite - or so I feel, anyway. The character is somewhat cold and stoic, so the almost hypocritical mixture of relaxation/stillness and firmness in regards to posture kind of works for it I feel and is what I was going for.
But I'm encountering two huge road blocks - it looks terrible on a black/really dark background, and I cannot draw an arm.

The legs lose their form and sort of becoming blobby messes, and I'm not really sure the best way of correcting.


A compilation of all the arms I've done trying to get this to work, none of which I feel work.

Even more so on a black background.

So those are my primary dilemmas - arm and dark background. When it comes to the dark background, what would you recommend? Changing the colors, shading, maybe even style? I can postulate as to multiple different causes and as such solutions, but I can't bring myself to apply them due to the 'changing the very basis of the sprite' factor, and the fact that I'm not sure if they would actually work in the first place.
I've been trying to fix these problems for over a week now on and off, and your assistance would be heavily appreciated. I'm kind of caging myself in on this one and need some outside opinions and assistance.
C+C please?

[crab2selout.png]

I don't understand which one is the updated version. You've said that the left version is both the edit and original. It really doesn't matter that much though, because I can hardly tell the two apart. I wasn't planning to, but as I was writing this, I started doodling in Graphics Galle and ended up with an edit.


It could use some more touching up to make the shoulder pads pop more, but it addresses my main crits of your sprite. 1) The pose is pretty boring. The spine is straight, his arms hang limply by his side. In my eidt, I bent the arms and added some curve to the body, although I think a bit too much to his feet. I think I need to push them forward a pixel or space out the distant foot more. 2) Your shading doesn't desribe hte form of your sprite very well. Some parts aren't too bad, but the front of the jacket doesn't  work well imo. It's shaded almost like it was a cyclinder, when it should be shaded like the front of a box.  3) I should have pushed this more in my edit, but you shouldn't shade every part from light to dark with the same range of values. In your sprite just about everything looks like it's made from the same material because they all have a similar range of light-to-dark values. This makes the head come across as some kind of a helmet instead of hair and skin. 4)Minor things. Watch out for pillowshading on the hair and boots. Also, I think some of the mentioned problems may have been caused by a certain thinking process. Maybe you look at a bland or empty spot on the sprite and think that a realistically shaded sprite wouldn't have these empty spots and thus you find a way to fill it with either detail or undescriptive shading. I think flat shaded areas are just another way of describing texture or making other textures pop and you should not neglect this.

Sorry if all that is a bit harsh. I think the sprite has promise and and should go well with your snowy tileset you posted recently. It looks like it should contrast nicely with your background graphics and read well. It kinda has a Sephirothy-Soma Cruz vibe, both of which get thumbs up from me. I hope this was helpful

EDIT: I was bugged by the left leg and made a quick flip and fix. Reworded a sentence.
EDIT: Looking at it again, I think I lost the character in my edit and it has some contrat issues. I did another iteration with more emphasis on trenchcoat, making armour shiny, and polish.

[Helm]

You're focusing too much on the single pixel as an entity and not how it belongs to a pixel cluster that is trying to convey a volume as described by light on material. The problem is fundamental and you should spend more time understanding the fundamentals, and then the skills will translate back to your pixel art. An easy way to verify this critique is to ask yourself 'is my non-pixel art sketching skill up to par with what I'm doing in my pixel art?'. If not, you know where you should be focusing.

[Gizmonicgamer]

crab2selout >> very interesting edit. You did lose the character somewhere along the lines of doing it, but even despite that the design stayed strikingly similar, and has also inspired me to try and make a new one.

A lot of the issues resulted from the fact that the sprite is essentially the umpteenth alteration of a sprite that was originally around 2 years old, and due to the fact that the more and more I edited it, the more and more I felt 'constrained' to keep the alterations minimal and within a certain style. I couldn't bring myself to edit like things like the front of the vest/coat for whatever reason.

I decided that the best way to try and remedy the situation was to simply start from scratch again.

Thanks to both crab2selout and Helm for responding and critiquing.


I decided to try and make a new version of the sprite due to general dissatisfaction with the original. I'm not really happy with how its coming out, though; I'm trying to get a somewhat stoic/reserved stance and form, without making it too lazy or alternatively too 'stern'. In general I'm not sold on the way the legs and upper torso are connecting. It feels as if there's some kind of anatomical perspective issue going on.

I've made it larger, and in the process somewhat taller. I may end up making it a little shorter, though. I've varied the palette a little more and increased the contrast and tone slightly, although I ended up slacking a little bit on the 'reusing shades' aspect of the shading brought up before.

I'm most conflicted about the head/hair, and the legs.

C+C and edits would be heavily appreciated!

EDIT:

Slightly altered version. Red jewels on the knee pad return, better leg design imo and a few minor improvements. Something still feels off though.

[Atnas]

I think it feels off because it's a bit cramped. Whatever your newest edit gained is overshadowed by what it lost when you cramped up the stance. It just doesn't read as a flowing figure. It looks a little bit like how a ragdoll would, in that the limbs are just hanging, not anchored into position with muscle and bone. Also the one sided shoulder pad makes the far side look bland and uninteresting. All the action pointing behind him!

Edit mainly consisting of the rectangular selection tool.

[Helm]

Atnas, your version is leaning forward though

[Atnas]

He is leaning! I've added an amendment to my edit. I apologize if it was misleading. (leaning back now! that fickle one pixel shift)

However, I now realize that I'm showing an attempt at a more generic CHEST FORWARD IDEAL READY STANCE, where the pose I criticized for being ragdolly actually has a lot more character! I admit I hadn't processed the comment about the character's stoic personality which was trying to be conveyed. I think my version can be ignored, though I maintain that the contour of the right side looks slightly too concave.

[Gizmonicgamer]

After examining atnas' edit (and slowly working on it) I decided to tighten the stance slightly.


Final version thus far; touched up a bunch of things including a minor palette touchup and general alterations towards the shape. I have two different versions up right now, with slightly different legs and a slightly different vest. I'm leaning towards the left-most one, though.

I'm still not necessarily happy with the arm (and that aspect of his stance just yet), so I'll play around with that some more.

I think my version can be ignored, though I maintain that the contour of the right side looks slightly too concave.

This does deserve some thought, though thus far I haven't found a way to convey that any better without disrupting his stance or give the appearance of leaning.
I'm almost done, I hope, so I should be able to start some simple animations soon.

Thanks for the comments!

[Gizmonicgamer]

Still working on it. I've made it smaller and a bit more streamlined, also a little bit less soft, which is all a step in the right direction. I've also fixed up the stance and posture slightly, but it's still bothering me a lot. Could somebody with a better sense of anatomy (and less attachment invested into the sprite) try and point out any errors they may see?

I also can't seem to get an arm right; my best attempt thus far has been this:

but I'm still not happy with it.

I've also noticed that while it may look relatively fine here, when put over a dark background it doesn't look nearly as good/defines.

C+C on the progress thus far or ideas/edits on how to potentially fix these issues would be greatly appreciated!

[Gizmonicgamer]

Okay.

I have this sprite, and I feel its coming out pretty well - it has much better shape, definition and coloring then the previous sprite and previous incarnations of this sprite - or so I feel, anyway. The character is somewhat cold and stoic, so the almost hypocritical mixture of relaxation/stillness and firmness in regards to posture kind of works for it I feel and is what I was going for.
But I'm encountering two huge road blocks - it looks terrible on a black/really dark background, and I cannot draw an arm.

The legs lose their form and sort of becoming blobby messes, and I'm not really sure the best way of correcting.


A compilation of all the arms I've done trying to get this to work, none of which I feel work.

Even more so on a black background.

So those are my primary dilemmas - arm and dark background. When it comes to the dark background, what would you recommend? Changing the colors, shading, maybe even style? I can postulate as to multiple different causes and as such solutions, but I can't bring myself to apply them due to the 'changing the very basis of the sprite' factor, and the fact that I'm not sure if they would actually work in the first place.
I've been trying to fix these problems for over a week now on and off, and your assistance would be heavily appreciated. I'm kind of caging myself in on this one and need some outside opinions and assistance. And the game in question is going to have a large variety of backgrounds going from deep black to bright white and most everything in between, so its an issue that has to be dealt with.
C+C please?