Pixelated anatomy studies + more animation

[Scribblette]

I wanted to post SOMETHING, though I'm still putting advice into action atm...

Mathias - *hopes the first half of that isn't sarcasm, and if it IS attached to the second sentence, that by noting they have enormous trapezius muscles you're just stating how terribly enthused you are to finally see the thick-necked among us represented in pixel art form* 

Beo - I liked #3 most, I think. My choice is flawed given I like the ones with the giant necks best. Something looks wrong every time I see the shoulders lowered, and I've got a gut feeling I'll have to re-do shading on the male's shoulders so he fits with new female shoulders rather than vice versa.

ND - I think I've managed to incorporate the hips. I narrowed the torso towards the navel to accentuate the ridge of the pelvis (hopefully). That much looks like an improvement to me. Legs continue to look a lot uglier when split though - like an infected wound bursting past its stitches.

I'm left puzzled over how the breasts could look stapled to the collar (still blind to my own work). Should their base hang lower, as per the biggest ones in the first post, or the starting point? I've tried the latter. My attempts at smaller or saggier look bizarre next to the chesty male. Not that it would justify bad drawing, but the women have an, er, invisible bra on - they'd not be drawn naked anyway.

Tried new eyes. Wexx's edit is helpful (and closest to the mark re the darn shoulders), though I was looking to avoid using the strongest highlight much (if at all). The sprite is the base for movement & battle animations, so I'd like to not go right overboard on colouring. Regarding sel out, I found it unnecessary for the male form and was hoping the female could get by without it as well to prevent poor readability on terrain tiles. Will probably do selout to some degree on clothing though.



Summary: Arghfrickinlegsarghblindcan'tputitintoactionargh.  Still struggling with shoulders and legs don't part well - look nicer together so far.

[ndchristie]

shin bones bow out, not in, that's where things are going wrong.  the knee is also generally centered above the foot and there is a large muscle group to the inside and outside of the knee where they wrap around the ends of the bones. the kneecap has it's own system that woks top to bottom and in anchored between these points, resulting in an unusual light form.  the form you end up seeing created by a leg then is sorta like:
 ) . (
| )( |
 \||/
 \||/
 ^ ^

this is a construction, and perhaps you would be better served by observation, but the main things i keep in mind are the muscles forms and the bones; skin is an accessory to structure:

[Scribblette]

That settles it. I'm pulling out my GF's anatomy book tonight and I'm sketching the entire body. Every bone. Well, except for the little ones in the ears, and I expect it to take a while... and then I'll make a pixel skeleton at this size, just to see how it goes. No more expecting ANY of this to be easier-than-full-blown-vector-art or time saving, especially when the months I wasted learning to sprite I could've spent learning to draw regular and sprited the same much quicker.

And then I'm going to have to do the same with muscle groups.

Not sure how to incorporate learning about colour in there to help with things like doing tree leaves better, but that's another story...

Thanks for the input ND. It helps break down what I couldn't see in online photographs with little light/dark contrast to make anything out. I can see the male leg needs work as well then - I was just a bit luckier there. Can also see that if I want to do legs at the current width scale, I'll likely need to increase the sprite size overall. Legs are tiny!

Work continues - better.

[ndchristie]

anatomy books are great for learning systems, but observation is key.  just tell your girlfriend she has beautiful legs and sketch a bit.  do the same with yourself by a mirror at home.  sketch on the bus, on the train, in cafes (looking from a table to the line at the bar is a great way to observe from odd angles such as the rear or rear-side, and the perspective shift you get from sitting down while observing a standing stranger minimizes distortion.

i think, and it's pure opinion, that good anatomical construction is framed by process informed by science observed in life, with each level of that more important than the one before.

[robotacon]

Perhaps this is a step in the right direction



I would also consider using different heights for the male and the female character.

Edit: ndchristie beat me to it

[Scribblette]

Tried sel-out on the legs to convey the form demonstrated in pictures, but indications are that level of detailed 'reality' requires reworking the entire structure to match and an entirely different sort of sprite, meaning I'd have to redo the male from scratch as well to fit. I went with a reference from a Loomis book where the legs were mostly together and tried to incorporate the shape from there instead.

According to my GF I shouldn't use her as a reference, and the nipples are meant to be one up and in - that looked wrong, so I went with just one up. The sprites I like are on either side of the X, longer torso vs longer calves. I'll get back to it tomorrow.

Robotacon, great silhouettes, but I can't seem to get the shoulders to work when actually shading, let alone find space for breasts. I'll have to go back to the sprites and rework them - the giant calves don't do the lass any favours. Your poses look decidely male and female.

I need a wav of Mathesar stating ONWARDS or whatever it is he says in that blind, perpetually optimistic Thermian way.

[Mathias]

Mathias - *hopes the first half of that isn't sarcasm, and if it IS attached to the second sentence, that by noting they have enormous trapezius muscles you're just stating how terribly enthused you are to finally see the thick-necked among us represented in pixel art form* 

Hah, yes all pure sarcasm . . . j/k, I was serious, and I just wanted to add that the trapezius' I was seeing were represented as rather biggish, but I think you got it handled.

[Scribblette]

Okay. Anatomy studies underway. Muscles next, which will require sketching on paper rather than on a pixel level lest I miss all the points that need to be driven home. Advice on basics is welcome, including how I could have anti-aliased that better, tips on pixelling white bones that thin, etc. And still welcoming advice on the previous animation, defunct though it be.

I may pull the legs in to have the natural pose look more as robotacon demonstrated above.

[Scribblette]

Will be seeing how gear looks at this scale before restructuring older side views & animations.



Newer work on the left side of the line, only difference between the two females is arm length. Long way from prototypes though. I'm content with her shoulders and legs now. Finally found a way to part the males legs and have it look alright, though it also made the arms as was look too long. I am less certain of their feet and breasts. Prefer soft/ball or teardrop myself.

If you can improve on anything, by all means feel free to kick their pixelated posteriors in order.

I'm curious to find out how similar one could do pixel art to the look of modern cell shading. Anti-aliasing plus just a couple of shades or some such. It'd help workflow to mimimize colours and dithering.

[robotacon]

I think you're making progress. Your skeletal joins make a lot more sense than my abstract skeleton.

Now, may I suggest that you redraw the heads too?
I think these guys deserves a nose and/or mouth symbol.
Do the same thing you did with the body, make the measurements and run with it.

Tiny breast looks best at the moment, just shrink her shoulders a bit and you're golden.