AuthorTopic: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!  (Read 171262 times)

Offline Dr D

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #30 on: March 12, 2009, 05:25:38 am
Hey, I decided I'd have a little try at spotting some other banding issues in the art, but don't expect expect too much.



Note: I am very much a beginner when it comes to pixel art, or art as a whole, and despite the rather well-explained tutorial, I am still not entirely sure when I see banding or not (except staircase banding), so forgive me if I am totally off base, which I most likely am.
Also, this is the original version, and it isn't animated. I didn't re-do Helm's error-spotting. And it is slightly larger than his, so I think I spotted a few that he didn't look at.

Anyways, some feedback is appreciated on this.

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #31 on: March 12, 2009, 07:34:38 am
I will keep the Go analogy, but I will explain it more on a final piece, with visual aids. I aim to make a little mario sprite made of Go pieces on a go board (it is a 18x18 grid so he fits hehe) so that will help.

As Gil says, the Go analogy works for me because clusters feed on the space around them and most problems in pixel art occur where clusters 'battle' when they touch. Same as Go.

Dr D : Good work! Here's some more.



The one with the ! pointing at it I think is probably necessary banding. It's just a full outline. It could be broken with aa but I think in such a dark place a full outline is probably for the best.

EDIT: keep the ideas and criticism coming. I really appreciate the comments, but DEEG DEEEPER!! I can take it. I don't want this to be half-assed.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 07:36:41 am by Helm »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #32 on: March 12, 2009, 10:19:04 am
(it is a 18x18 grid so he fits hehe)

19x19 actually since you play on the crossroads and not in the squares :)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #33 on: March 12, 2009, 10:51:11 am
I was talking of how many squares there are. I'm sure there's more interesting things to remark upon in this thread than that, though.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #34 on: March 12, 2009, 11:06:10 am
Indeed there are. Very interesting thread so far. When I can think of something interesting to write here, I shalt.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #35 on: March 12, 2009, 01:49:35 pm
"and then place single-pixel, low-resolution level detail on various specific pieces to rejoice in the pixel-ness of his work just a little (the highlights on the hair here for example)."
i don't think demosceners have used highlights for this purpose. lot of demosceners have copied Boris Vallejo's style (overhighlighted pics). specular-dot-highlights were overused to make pics more glows, magics, "flash", hypnotics.

If i correctly understand, you prefer to start pics with "clusters-of-pixels" rather than "flat colors" (like painters). Pixel artists should work "areas-by-areas", rather than "from general to details" ?

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #36 on: March 12, 2009, 01:57:49 pm
As I said I cannot speak for the intention of the demoscene artists responsibly, just making educated guesses.

A flat color is a cluster of pixels as well. I start my pieces with silluette and then I break it up to volumes and then I light the volumes. Then the pixel artistry begins.

Offline Gil

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #37 on: March 12, 2009, 03:45:50 pm
Hugo, I suggest a thorough reread on the cluster part, I think you misread.

Btw, Helm, I think this is a great thread. Pixel art needs a lot more study to be considered a real art form. I feel that for many it is still a pop art gimmick, especially seeing the books that appear on the subject (lousy eboy references and stuff)

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #38 on: March 12, 2009, 04:41:05 pm
I don't think texts such as these will help in any way with the popular image of pixel art, it will always be video-game and nerd-nostalgia related in the eyes of the general public. This is more for us as already established lovers of pixel art that want to apply some... taxonomy to our various fleeting thoughts on how best to approach making pixel art.

I do thank you for the encouragement though.

The next piece I write will be exactly about pixel clusters and therefore aa, buffering, tapering etc, I think it'll help Hugo understand, amongst others. It's the piece I am most anxious to write because I am not exactly certain what it will be about (the banding piece on the contrary, wrote itself, I had considered these things fully for some time before writing them) and that means improvisation and hopefully point-counterpoint dialogue will arise. I will suggest a pretty grand idea about unification there. Perhaps tomorrow. Perhaps the day after. It'll be the last 'big piece' of raw text in here before I start refining and shaping the whole thing into one text.

Offline Gil

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #39 on: March 12, 2009, 05:39:12 pm
I agree that this text won't help the public image, but if we want this to be a proper art form, we have to believe it ourselves first. We have the people with the background to elevate this to the next level for ourselves and we owe that to ourselves if we are going to make any convincing argument to friends that what we're doing is more than just a second rate form of creativity.

Anyway, I might contribute to this cause with some animation knowledge, but I'm not sure which techniques applied to pixel art animation don't appear in traditional animation. I have some important stuff though for low frame animation, which definately ties in to pixel art. I also feel that there is a strong connection between what you define as pixel clusters and their individual trajectory through animated frames, which can make or break delicate animations. Sometimes I deliberately shade pieces incorrectly on some frames to keep a fluidity in some important visual clusters, such as a specular part.