First Ditch Attempt

[Masna]

Hey everyone,

I'm new around here.  I'm from TIGsource and saw a lot of people there have accounts here, so I though I'd join in.

This is pretty much a first attempt at pixel art.   An crits are greatly appreciated.



Thanks,
Masna

[Memo]

pretty nice, reminds me a bit of the game Fez.

[Masna]

Yeah.  That's somewhat of an inspiration.   Also, Owl Boy.

[Jakten]

This looks great especially considering this is basically your first attempt at pixel stuff. I think the rocks and dirt hanging down could be a little more defined. The shapes are kind of random but with a little cleaning up you should be able to make it look pretty good.

[Souly]

Off to a good start.

The NPA background is a no no.
And by chance could you give us the 1x zoom, the forum has a 2x zoom feature.
That would help us in giving you any edits for some general ideas as to where to go with this.

Good for a first try though.

[Gil]

What's wrong with the background Souly? It's just a plain gradient and it looks cool, nothing wrong with that

Unlike what Tsugumo taught us years ago, there are places where a simple gradient works wonders. This piece would not be the same with a plain color.

[ter-o]

I need to agree with Gil about that the gradient fits this piece really nicely and makes a difference. Although it could be made with 8 colors and still be virtually as smooth looking as this so then it would qualify as pixel art too

[Gil]

Is it "better pixel art" because it's a gradient of only 8 colors versus 200? It's a controlled straight down gradient and it provides a backdrop. It doesn't affect the pixel art qualities of the piece at all.

My point being that it qualifies as pixel art right now and it looks way more pleasing than chopping the gradient up or spending hours trying to dither it.

[Souly]

No I just think that with it being 2x zoom we're already un-able to make an edit it.
And with a 200 color gradient behind it hard to edit anything to give him ideas such as clouds, or even a horizon line.

[TrevoriuS]

I guess if you lack the tools to do a quick hue-selective-fill that indeed gets hard; so if it pleases you~

[Souly]

Well I use MSPaint, so I doubt I have the tools to do such a thing.

[Corinthian Baby]

It seems like everyone is copying the simple cave-story style these days. I'm getting tired of seeing it. Yes cavestory was a great game but move on yo.

This post contains nothing but an unpleasant remark about the style of the piece, which would have contributed more if you'd tried to actually convey something to the orignal poster of this thread instead of just casually displaying your opinions in a snide manner. Refrain from these kinds of posts in the future, please. /Jäd

[Souly]

Pixel didn't invent the flat pixel style.
He just used it effectively and with great creativity.
Cavestory isn't the only video game with this style mind you these games did come after cavestory.




BTW, sorry for the thread overhaul Masna.
Are you a coder learning to do art?

[vierbit]

Yeah, is is inspired from a few other games. But I donīt see this as a big problem considering thats his first pixelart.
Seriously, Iīm pretty sure nearly everyone "copied" something for there first few pieces.

Generally speaking its not bad, but can surely improved. I donīt know if the purple shade edit works,
the blue one just makes more sense to me.

@Corinthian Baby
Yeah, thats also something i donīt get. No idea why a simple, detail less style is favored these days.
I believe 2D games have to look ~retro~ today , which basically means they look like pimped NES games.

[Masna]

Wow!   Thanks for all the replies, guys. 

If you guys don't like the gradient, that's cool.   I wasn't really going for any kind of minimized color count or anything.   I never really understood the people who limit themselves to NES restrictions, or anything like that.   Is it just for the challenge?

Corinthian @ I was somewhat inspired by cavestory, but certainly wasn't going for a cavestory kind of feel.     And I agree with Souly, Pixel didn't invent the style.

So I've decided for a little redesign.   I'll post more later. -- and it will be x1. 

EDIT:

Forgot to mention, no I don't code.  Never have.

[Ignacio]

I add more lumber to the fire! Sorry...

I also agree with the "don't zoom your images, forum features can do it", but, I think it shouldn' t be a problem if zooms are made by certain numbers (X2, X4, X10...), no? You can always scale down changing size of the pixels. Zoom X2--->Redouce by 50%, X4, by 25%, X10,  by 10%, etc...

Anyway, as said, it' s better to learn propperly from the beginning, so, no bad vicious to unlearn later. Same with 200 colours gradient, IMHO... It might not be "A no no that invalidates this piece of art to be here", but if it's done in "pixel art", the better.

And Masna, about your question about "colour restrictions". I will quote you something Helm told to a friend of mine.

Our first target is to make people understand that we do follow the rules of pixel art, not because we are a sect of self-centered people, but because experience proves that doing that we get a better result, with less work

It might have not reproduced it 100% accurate, but I perfectly agree with the spirit of the sentence.

[Shrike]

There seems to be more ass-pats than actual critique.  Let's get going guys!   
Well, there doesn't seem to much pixel-level detail or control.  The rocks could be dithered, which would help identify texture; it looks kind of messy right now.
I think the grass ought to stick up in blades.  That's what grass is, it's not some omeba that's completely flat on the top but looks like grass on the bottom.  Give it some blades.

Bridge it rather uninteresting.  make it start as the same level as the grass, give it some personality and sag it, maybe some vines twirling around it.  I mean, geez, not EVERYthing is all perfect and new.  Almost everything isn't, unless the style calls for that.  The rocks seem pretty realistic and gritty so I assume you're going for something like that.

I never really understood the people who limit themselves to NES restrictions, or anything like that.   Is it just for the challenge?

For the challenge, and the old palettes are honest-to-god fun to work with, and it's surprising how well they work.  It's also a nice thought to think that all of the work the older generation gamemakers put into organizing these palettes is carried on for far longer than they'd expected for sure.

By the way, if I'm coming off mean I'm not trying to. It just seems like you're not receiving all the critique you ought to.  I do really like this piece.

Later
Shrike

[Masna]

Thanks, Shrike. 

I'll definitely work on that grass.   I never really understood dithering, though.     Dithering is just like a checker-board kind of shading, right?   Should I dither where there are only slight shadows?

[QuaziGNRLnose]

did it ever strike you that flat pixel is the easiest and fastest style to do, not to mention it looks real nice very easily, and when trying to make a game where you need 200+ sprites and backdrop tiles, you dont want a single piece take ages to make.

anyways hes new to pixel art and hes obviously trying his best, which i think looks very good at this stage 
who cares if its similar to cavestory.

[Shrike]

Ouch.  Dithering is hard to explain.

I'm not entirely clear myself, but this is the best I can do (correct me, pixel masters, if I am wrong):

Dithering is a technique created for old consoles to blend colors as there were restrictions, in order to let the eye blend thinks and make them smoother and/or different colors, or for certain effects.  It was later adapted for adding texture, NOT making it smoother!  Right now, it's used to either add a bumpy texture, or to smooth a line out, or even to add noise for the sake of adding noise.  Dithering, even though it only originated as a checkerboard pattern is now a very loose term;  you can dither tons of different ways.  Basically, dithering is an interesting way to bridge two colors, and checkerboard is the most dull yet most common.

Something like that?
Really, pixel-peoples, correct me because I'm almost SURE I'm wrong somewhere.

Thanks.
Shrike

[Atnas]

Dithering is used when you want a color you do not have, so you combine the two. It can also add texture. It doesn't always have to be strictly checkerboard either, it can be looser.

Your rocks have confusing shading, maybe try more geometric blocks? You can get a lot out of a single flat shade for a flat surface. Especially on rocks. 

I wouldn't really call what you have inherently flat, I'd just say that the depth isn't working as well as it could so it leads people to assume. You have many more values than cavestory or whatever.

Here's something Opacus did last year that your stuff reminded me of. You can look at how he did his rocks to get an idea of how you could shade yours.

Here's something rendered in 3d which could also help you out: Mainly with the forms

And of course, nothing beats the real thing so you can also look for stuff like cliff faces and rocks to get an idea of how you might want to represent them in your game for a more convincing look.

Welcome to pixel art, by the way. C:

And haha shrike posted while was looking for images.

[Masna]

Wow!   Thanks for all the help, everyone.     I'll go get started on that dithering, now.

[Feron]

Found this made by Nieborg, perfect example of starting out with basic volumes and ending up with polished results:



Not the style your going for, but shows a really clear method of working.

Good Luck.

[Willows]

Super awesome question:

Why are you not using that darkest hue I see so clearly to help contrastify and further threedeealise your rocks? Hmm? HMM?

Okay that was three questions, but two weren't nearly as awesome as the first, despite gratuitous use of the shift key.