AuthorTopic: Raziel Idle Pose  (Read 11390 times)

Offline Mamoruanime

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Raziel Idle Pose

on: February 02, 2009, 08:56:40 am
I tried my hand at giving Raziel an idle pose in SotN style. There's a bit more detail to him than SotN style typically allows, but meh. He's a tough cookie to make look plain.



And with a temporary Soul Reaver-


C&C please ^_^

Offline Elrinth

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 01:33:50 pm
here's an image from SotN, if is an abbrevation of Symphony of the Night:

Not sure what SotN style doesn't allow which you are doing. But here's my crits:
* it looks like you've accidently clipped his right side. it's a straight like down and then suddenly a knee sticks forth. is it supposed to be so?
* does he only have one arm?
* I don't really see what the part on his stomach, what's it supposed to be? a belt?
* maybe you can make the character slightly broader?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 01:35:30 pm by Elrinth »
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Offline Mamoruanime

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 03:00:59 pm
Ah; lol yeah Raziel has *no* stomach; so that thing in it's place is his other arm; I really shoulda shown some references lol...
Here's some concept art in the Soul Reaver 2 bonus features-

http://www.thelostworlds.net/LoKSeries/Images/Soul_Reaver_2_Bonus_Material_-_Raziel-raziel_7.JPG
http://www.thelostworlds.net/LoKSeries/Images/Soul_Reaver_2_Bonus_Material_-_Raziel-raziel_9.JPG

His knee is something I've been working on, because it bothers the hell outta me lol

As for SotN limitations; I stepped a bit past the number of colors they typically use on parts of the sprites. They have a tendency to shade with 2 to 3 colors, and make things more solid. I went with 4 to 5 colors per element.

I should also note that I purposefully left his shoulders uncovered, and I didn't sprite in his wings. His wings in-game are going to be low poly meshes that move dynamically.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 03:03:28 pm by Mamoruanime »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 10:28:02 pm
ugh....I like SOTN and I like Raziel but I really think this is just not a very good idea at all.

Look at the way LOK models are done, they are all about the exagerated faces with tons of expression and very exagerated features, just like their body build.

Now look at SOTN sprites, the face is basically just a piece of blank space, and they are elongated and refined...it doesnt match, and your sprite shows it.

 Raziel looks like a random blue dude. You also made him specially elongated, even for SOTN I believe, his features are not human-like at all in the game he practically has megaman legs...you cant even show his pointed ears!

Offline Mamoruanime

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 10:53:12 pm
Nah his proportions are correct for SotN style; I made sure of that. The loss is the oversized lower arms and lower legs that LoK seems to pride itself on, and IMO that's not much of a loss, given the style change.

I have to disagree with the facial expressions though. Soul Reaver 1 had absolutely no facial movement whatsoever. They were just still faces. I know this because I have every single model ripped and sitting for reference. It wasn't until SR2 and Blood omen 2 that they had facial expressions in general. SR1 was just annoying, as they would have full dialog bits and absolutely no facial movements.

Take a peek at this vid (MAJOR SPOILERS; but it's good reference for the lack of facial expressions)-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENosWOAWUgo

Throughout the entire thing, they either avoid showing their faces head on, or they do distance shots. Technical limitations kept them from going too detailed in that aspect, and because of that I don't feel I'm doing any wrong to the series if I don't go out of my way to make raziels ears pointy on a 4x4px surface.

For height reference-


Either way; the whole point of the project is to take the game from one style (the original) to another style (SotN style). Things such as the huge ass lower arms and such won't be present, because frankly; I'm not making a 2d LoK style.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 11:12:45 pm by Mamoruanime »

Offline Gil

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 01:06:17 am
All three of the references have 8 pixel high heads, yours is 5 or 6 pixels high. All those poses are really dynamic, yours is a stick figure.

More studying of the style will be required.

Also, the silhouette reads a 1000 times better than the finished shaded piece. Try figuring out why and bring the clarity back into the piece.

Offline Jad

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 01:30:36 am
Styles are vague, do not compromise readability because of 'style', not even SOTN did that.

Alucard has his cool guy pose because it expresses his character. Raziel is FALLEN and TORN, so he stands much more hunched and non-proud than Alucard. Wider pose, I guess. Reference first-guy for pose I'd say!

Also please more definition on his legs. Alucard's legs look like straight cylinders because he's wearing trousers and boots.

Making Raziel's legs look like pants does not really make the style SOTN so drop some of those breaking-style-fears and define, define, define!11

Raziel is not a normal human, his physiology is like a skeleton with some rudimentary muscles and some blue paint all over that. Thus there is a lot of difference between the wideness of joints and limbs.

All of this should be visible in the finished sprite, but isn't, so congratulations, you can now make your sprite more better!

If I sound like an ass please just imagine this post with a happy tone! I'm desperate to go to bed so I'm just splurting out the last critique I've got in the system!

Also Good luck and never give up!11

Oh plus, shading-wise you're close to the original 'style' and stuff so you're obviously on the right track, and it's obvious that you've got some good pixel skills, so don't doubt that yourself, and don't doubt that I think so either for even a second! <3

Yes. That's it, good night!
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Offline Mamoruanime

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 04:43:38 am
Styles are vague, do not compromise readability because of 'style', not even SOTN did that.

Alucard has his cool guy pose because it expresses his character. Raziel is FALLEN and TORN, so he stands much more hunched and non-proud than Alucard. Wider pose, I guess. Reference first-guy for pose I'd say!

Also please more definition on his legs. Alucard's legs look like straight cylinders because he's wearing trousers and boots.

Making Raziel's legs look like pants does not really make the style SOTN so drop some of those breaking-style-fears and define, define, define!11

Raziel is not a normal human, his physiology is like a skeleton with some rudimentary muscles and some blue paint all over that. Thus there is a lot of difference between the wideness of joints and limbs.

All of this should be visible in the finished sprite, but isn't, so congratulations, you can now make your sprite more better!

If I sound like an ass please just imagine this post with a happy tone! I'm desperate to go to bed so I'm just splurting out the last critique I've got in the system!

Also Good luck and never give up!11

Oh plus, shading-wise you're close to the original 'style' and stuff so you're obviously on the right track, and it's obvious that you've got some good pixel skills, so don't doubt that yourself, and don't doubt that I think so either for even a second! <3

Yes. That's it, good night!

Actually you gave me the responses I wanted :P Instead of focusing simply on the change from one style to another, you focused on the pixels themselves :P I'm going to work on those very things ^_^


Also Gil- Raziel has no lower jaw :p his head is going to be a tad smaller.

EDIT:

I've made some minor tweaks to Raziel;


Nothing major though; I touched up his legs a bit, and removed the stay knee pixels. I've given the illusion of a slight hunch; it was lacking the full scarf before, and I think that helped imply that he's hunching a bit more, along with the additional leg definition. I added the rest of his hair, since he has 2 pointy bangs that pop out. His scarf has been expanded, and I'm using an additional color outside of the existing 3 on the brown cloth parts (the darkest blue already on Raziel appears to fit well). I'm still working on these things; so this is just a quick edit.

EDIT 2:

I've been fleshing out the sprite a bit, and started working on the lead-in to his run animation. I started the animation primarily to see how easy it would be to animate him having so many colors (I'm not the best animator either when it comes to sprites.)

As a WIP I came up with this; keep in mind, I'm still working on all 3 sprites-


Please note that I am aware of the goofiness of the legs during that animation. It's still a WIP. Also please note that this animation will never go to frame three, and directly back to the first frame. It's a lead in. A lead out will handle going back to the idle pose.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 03:21:45 pm by Mamoruanime »

Offline Helm

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 06:05:22 pm
Most of Jad's critiques still apply. More definition of character is needed, physiological knowhow is also needed.

Don't start an animation just drawing the next frame after this frame and then the next. First keyframe, then draw the paths you need and then animate the in-betweens. Someone more knowledgable like Ptoing or Fool or Conceit on matters of animation will probably chime in when you've got something more than what you have, but I'm just trying to save you some grief early on.

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Raziel Idle Pose

Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 09:55:24 pm


I actually like the far right running sprite better as an idle stance. It captures more of the Raziel character with it being hunched over, though the legs would need some work. You can finally see that Raziel doesn't have a stomach, whereas in your actual idle his background arm looks like a belt as someone mentioned.