rain in hell kid

[balls01]

hey hey,

im doing a concept of the kid of the album cover: rain in hell, by aiden.

right now its not really anything just very lazy dodgy work, but if there are any crits i will be amazed and thankful.

concept:

reference


one crit ive already picked up on, i cant be bothered reposting, is that the white of the eyes are too small.

[Terley]

What are you hoping to learn from this? If you get this bang on you're still not really achieving much. Why not take it in another direction? Be creative.

[balls01]

yewaaah!

i was actually planning on learning the glow effect, shading with different hue's from the base color. i could also learn howto use minimal AA without the jaggies, becuase i see alot and the laege switch from yellow to blue/black is very hard, also im learning to use graphics gale, so that could also come into it, and in some places following the reference can be hard, and people say i need to look at the reference more, and be less relianr on other people to pick out my faults

which these points have all been covered in this edit.

[32]

I think you should stop drawring referenced humans. Its constricting you and putting you way out of your depth at the same time, it's a well known fact that humans are one of the hardest things to draw, and the only reason your even trying is because you have refernces to base everything off. The best thing to do before starting is think "could I draw this on paper" if the answer is no, don't do it, if you can't draw it without the help of your computer tools (undo) and a reference (of course you should use references but not as heavily) its hopeless trying to draw something so complex, the end result will always be a mash up of techniques and and small fixes, and it probably won't be completed. Instead try drawring small things you could draw on paper (I draw plants), you can learn much faster this way and not be disappointed with the result, and drawring small also lets you try out your new pixel tricks without adjusting hundreds of pixels.

[balls01]

I think you should stop drawring referenced humans. Its constricting you and putting you way out of your depth at the same time, it's a well known fact that humans are one of the hardest things to draw, and the only reason your even trying is because you have refernces to base everything off. The best thing to do before starting is think "could I draw this on paper" if the answer is no, don't do it, if you can't draw it without the help of your computer tools (undo) and a reference (of course you should use references but not as heavily) its hopeless trying to draw something so complex, the end result will always be a mash up of techniques and and small fixes, and it probably won't be completed. Instead try drawring small things you could draw on paper (I draw plants), you can learn much faster this way and not be disappointed with the result, and drawring small also lets you try out your new pixel tricks without adjusting hundreds of pixels.

i actually count every time i do use the undo to see how much i rely on it in each piece, this piece only 5 times so far. as for what to draw, what could i draw instead? i have no idea. and i always try to draw small as possible when it comes to PA, but i wanted a change for this time around.

[32]

It's best to draw anything you feel comfortable with, things you scribble in the margin or a notebook for instance, its more important that its of your own creation than what it actually is. The undo button was an example, the main thing is that pixel art is 100% opaque, which means you can comepletely redraw absolutely anything without it looking like you've tried a million times, it's easy to hide your weaknesses in pixel art, thats partially why its good practice to draw on paper.

[balls01]

im gettin ya... you want me to do something uncreated before.

what do i scribble in my margins? normally i scribble graffiti. maybe ill do abit of that?

[Shrike]

He's right, Balls01.  I know you want to be right here, but before you get all defensive just try it.  Go on, you'll find it worthwhile.  Art classes (For sketching and drawing) have helped loads in my pixel art, and it's really just as fun and actually finishing something is vastly more satisfying on paper (Or on canvas) than in pixels.  I'm not trying to diss pixels, otherwise I'd be dead here.  Just try what 32 suggested.

And being more creative with this would be good, since right now it's not interesting.  Do something crazy, like use only default MSPaint colors, or make an animation where the kid turns super-evil and messes stuff up.  If this is only kind of challenging, do something stupid insane and you'll learn far more than otherwise.  Unless you don't want to learn.

Anyway, you have a lot of potential and I look forward to seeing more from you.  Happy pixels!
Toodles!
Shrike

Aahh, shoot.  You beat me to it.  Well, yeah.  Do something without using a refrence, and make it something hard, like trying to make a realistic human face.  Those can be bitches to do.  Graffiti isn't really interesting (AT least for me) or challenging, but you do your thing.

[32]

im gettin ya... you want me to do something uncreated before.

what do i scribble in my margins? normally i scribble graffiti. maybe ill do abit of that?

If your talking about text graffiti, that good, but you should note that depending on what your drawing you can only practice certain things, text would be good for aa and colour practice, but unless its 3D writing you wont be able to practice volumes. And yes, things that come from your imagination are great, because you don't have to worry if it looks like what someone else has done, which means you won't have to draw anything you feel uncomfortable drawing. And try not to plan it to thoroughly, just go with the flow and see what you come up with, have a direction but dont worry if theres something you cant quite draw, just scrap it and move on (i mean a part of a picture, not the whole thing). Lastly, don't try to make something perfect out of everything you draw, some things are scribbles and thats all they need to be.

[NaCl]

I know little about art, but from what I do know of other subjects, doing things that, "you feel comfortable with" over and over is a terrible way to learn. In fact, it's hardly learning at all. I think Terley's advice was better, because he basically suggested the opposite of yours. He said do something more, and experiment and such, while you said do something less. Staying in your comfort zone is beyond pointless, you're basically dead in the water.

[32]

I'm not suggesting staying where he is, I think (though I don't actually know) that he's trying all these things that are way beyond his abilities, and suggesting he takes time out to practice with objects that are simpler, I feel that he's not practicing at a reasonable level, you need to get good at where your at before you can move up to the next level, you know, walk before you can run. Basically I'm just suggesting practice. Also, by comfortable I don't just mean things you've done a million times, just not things as complex and pre-defined as humans. Definitely agree with challenging yourself but in different ways, the actual object is just a something to draw and the anatomy of a human is constricting and means you cant just draw. Also, drawing from your imagination is much more fun, to see something of your own design completed is much more satisfying, and it also means you can toss around ideas while you draw, without limits.

[Gil]

The only way to really learn how to draw is to draw human anatomy, preferably looking at live anatomy (not pictures, references).

One of the tricks I picked up is to sketch your left hand if you draw right handed. Just look at it and try to get the lines right. Then slowly go to volumes, but that should probably be after you've done model studies for a year or so.

[balls01]

And being more creative with this would be good, since right now it's not interesting.  Do something crazy, like use only default MSPaint colors, or make an animation where the kid turns super-evil and messes stuff up.  If this is only kind of challenging, do something stupid insane and you'll learn far more than otherwise.  Unless you don't want to learn.

i was actually just thinking of giving him a bunch of flowers instead of an umbrella, i think ill pursue that. as for learning and practise, why do something im already capable of? i might aswell try something super hard and then ill learn how to cope and get somewhere, other than just plateuxing (oh Australian spelling sorry). i think i should keep doing stuff out of my abilities, to make it by the end, one of my abilities.

[32]

Practice, you just need to reinforce your current skills, the easiest way to do that is with thing that you find easy to draw. I'm just saying, humans are hard and it takes years of practice to get it right, and your basically eyeballing the refs, in doing that your not learning as much as you could by using your imagination. A point I think I was trying to make last night(it was late, I was tired so I apolagise if alot of it made no sense) is that Line is only one of the fundamentals of art and by drawing ref'd humans your copying what you see and not realisticly displaying YOUR skills. What I was trying to say is do expirimentation on objects you find the LINES easy to draw so you can focus on colour and techniques.

[balls01]

alrighty then from now on... no more reference. straight from my brain onto paper.

[32]

I think a better way to think about references is as references, use them to comfirm your shapes and volumes but don't just replicate them.

Also, if you have a scanner/camera drawring on paper then going over it on the computer is much better than with a mouse. It's much easier to come up with a good idea if it doesn't take half an hour to draw.

[EvilEye]

Eh?

Hes trying to translate an album cover into pixels.

Whats wrong with that? That takes skill and you improve, as long as you don't trace.

[32]

Eh?

Hes trying to translate an album cover into pixels.

Whats wrong with that? That takes skill and you improve, as long as you don't trace.

It's not that its not going to help, its just that there are better and more fun/satisfying ways to draw. I also think eyeballing art, though not as bad as tracing, doesnt allow you understand your picture as well as workng from scratch.

It might be better to do an interpritation of the cover rather than a copy, even just chosing your own colours and lightsource would prove more usefull than completely copying the picture.

[balls01]

i find it plenty satisfying doing any art... i enjoy it. also, im only 13 i have the rest of my life to learn this, i just want to have fun and do what i want really, i know it seems that im being ignorant and all the rest. but, it doesnt really bother me that im using references for every piece.


he will stab you if you dont take his flower

[Terley]

Eh?

Hes trying to translate an album cover into pixels.

Whats wrong with that? That takes skill and you improve, as long as you don't trace.

Yeah of course there's nothing wrong with it, Just if he's going to re-create it, whatever medium he uses it will only ever be as good or worse than the original reference. It's setting your bar low for kicks and giggles, sure you if you can recreate someone else's work to perfection you may be quite pleased with yourself and I know it's not exactly easy, you could do it masterfully. But in terms of creativity you're not going to advance atall unless you take it in another direction.

It's just a personal preference from seeing people I've known from back in highschool where one kid would paint famous pieces of art like the mona lisa; everyone would gather around like 'woah' thats amazing, but in comparisant he hadn't picked up shape and form ultimately just copying what he saw and not taking any understanding. What would he have learnt from this? Tell him to paint a real life woman in the same way, I doubt the end result would be as close. Also right now in university someone I know has been drawing Anime since he was 12 with hundreds of full sketch books, he's a pro and would definately know how to draw it better than anyone else I know, honestly really professional. But our last project we were told to start drawing from observation, it was so funny. You could see the fustration in his face, it was like watching a toddle draw for the first time, I just believe there's only so much you can learn from just someone else's work. Sure there's nothing wrong with direct copying if its all legit, I personally don't think it achieves anything.

[TrevoriuS]

To add to the above:

Learn the real thing, then apply a style filter.

Draw from life to learn and study; and practice sketching out creative ideas as to extend that knowledge in a more variable basis instead of developing good eye-hand coordination alone.

[32]

Thank you terly for explaining much better than i was

Perhaps make the object he's holding emit light, I'm providing a edit/suggestion instead of trying to explain again



Just a quick tablet sketch but it might give you some ideas on how to make it your own instead of a copy. Shrinking it also makes applying your pixel tech a lot easier.

[balls01]

but i like it as it is.... i think ill call it quits on this one.. then move on to no more referenced ones, drawings so on so on.