AuthorTopic: I need some help on selout, lighting and other stuff C+C too*WIP RUN CYCLE*  (Read 13836 times)

Offline Helm

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Seeing how some posts have been edited since I posted, it seems it was. Carry on with your art, treat people who give you critique with respect.

Offline 32

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Whats up with the him holding his arm out? It's not helping him defend, not helping him attack and not helping him keep his balance, all it would do is make it easier for the enemy to pull him down and stomp him. Most (real life) fighting stances they will hold their arms up, it helps defend their face and torso from punches and makes it easy for them to punch, go ahead and try standing inn you guys position and put a lot of force into a punch without pulling your arm back. The foot placement doesn't make much sense, you wouldn't bend your leg that much, the 90 degree foot placement means when you kick you keep balance and can pivot easily, if your knees bent, as soon as you kick your gonna fall over.

Basically, for your next animation, think about the stance and how it gives you an advantage in a fight.

Offline Mike

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Helm was that post really necessary?
Was yours?  And just so I can't be bludgeoned for that skatchy response, I take it back, I'm a noob on this forum and it isn't my place.  My input is:  For your idle sequence, he dips down in the middle, and rises at either end.  Maybe you could try the opposite, so he is tallest in the middle.  In other words, maybe try making him bounce on his toes.  That might make more sense in this context.

I like the way you think, I'll give that a try.  Thanks for giving me some advice I can actually use.

Offline Souly

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You're old animation was theoretically better, minus the queer arm.

Offline AlexWeldon

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Yes but that's an invention, you know that? A fighter will move to utilize the space around him for his advantage, he would not excert energy for no reason. He isn't stiff to start with, if he's about to fight. Just because you saw something in some other videogame doesn't mean you should take its truth for granted.

I've been taking boxing classes, and movement in fighting isn't just about maneuvering for an advantage... yes, you're moving in and out of range of your opponent, and trying to be closer to the centre of the ring and push your opponent towards the ropes... but there's also a lot of semi-random bouncing around and moving your body back and forth, just to make you a harder target. If you want to think about it as feinting, I suppose there's some truth to that, but I don't think 100% of it is calculated, even among the pros... at a certain point, staying in motion and keeping light on your feet becomes a reflex; even if you want to hold your current position, standing flat-footed and stationary is going to get you clobbered, even if it "saves energy."

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Now that I look at it, it kinda looks like everything has weights hanging on it, so it swings more slowly and dramatically than it should (namely the hair and jacket)

Offline Helm

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Yes but that's an invention, you know that? A fighter will move to utilize the space around him for his advantage, he would not excert energy for no reason. He isn't stiff to start with, if he's about to fight. Just because you saw something in some other videogame doesn't mean you should take its truth for granted.

I've been taking boxing classes, and movement in fighting isn't just about maneuvering for an advantage... yes, you're moving in and out of range of your opponent, and trying to be closer to the centre of the ring and push your opponent towards the ropes... but there's also a lot of semi-random bouncing around and moving your body back and forth, just to make you a harder target. If you want to think about it as feinting, I suppose there's some truth to that, but I don't think 100% of it is calculated, even among the pros... at a certain point, staying in motion and keeping light on your feet becomes a reflex; even if you want to hold your current position, standing flat-footed and stationary is going to get you clobbered, even if it "saves energy."

Everything you say makes sense, but it does not describe the sort of idle animation that a lot of 2d games are plagued with. I don't like tradition as an end in itself and I feel the generic idle bouncy animation for fighter sprites should be evaluated with a bit more critical thinking than it usually is. What you're describing would take a complex animation system to be rendered but it would be worth it much more than the generic 2 pixel vertical bounce.

Offline AlexWeldon

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Everything you say makes sense, but it does not describe the sort of idle animation that a lot of 2d games are plagued with. I don't like tradition as an end in itself and I feel the generic idle bouncy animation for fighter sprites should be evaluated with a bit more critical thinking than it usually is. What you're describing would take a complex animation system to be rendered but it would be worth it much more than the generic 2 pixel vertical bounce.

Well, I think a little bouncing is better than just standing there. Sure, more realistic animations would be great, but there are other factors to consider. Aside from development time, there's the gameplay fact that realistic "idle" animation would involve moving the character forward and back, and players won't like it if their character is moving without their control.

I think the problem isn't with the nature of the motion, since bobbing and weaving is one of the things that boxers do when they're not actively throwing a punch or blocking one, but rather just that the character is only doing one thing. The bobbing and weaving should be continuous, as it is now, but preferably with some rotation of the upper torso and/or "leaning" to the character's left and right, i.e. towards and away from the viewer. Also, the head should be moving around more, as that's the target you really want to make hard to hit. Finally, some other "feinting" should be thrown in... move the left hand a little forward once in a while, or twist the right shoulder slightly forward, as if starting to throw a jab or right cross. I guess you'd have to do the character as more than a single image, so that you could superimpose e.g. an arm animation or a duck of the head on top of the constant bobbing.


Offline Jad

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Regarding fighting stances in video games, sometimes you'll have to choose between plausibility and expressing character.

I'd say this pose, alont with the clothes signifies that this guy, although probably powerful, is a somewhat sloppy fighter and a trickster, who puts more emphasis on his fighting style looking flashy and effortless than it being effective. What with his fireball attacks being contact-juggling with fireballs and all.

So given that, some contrasting motions like him getting his guard up when he actually attacks and defends himself would make sense.

And also, yes, the bouncing kind of animations tend to look a bit weird when the character doesn't have his guard up.
' _ '

Offline Mike

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Now that I look at it, it kinda looks like everything has weights hanging on it, so it swings more slowly and dramatically than it should (namely the hair and jacket)

Yeah I realized after looking at it(I think I knew it at the beginning but I just couldn't bring myself to investigate it further)that the secondary follows the animation frame for frame instead of lagging behind, and continuing on after the animation stops.

I'm not really sure what the idle animation should be...As much as I would love to have something with many frames of smooth detailed animation, the truth is I'm just not at that level.  I'm still working on the animation though.  I originally wanted to have an all purpose idle animation but it appears I'll probably have to end up having idle animations for each weapons he holds.  At least that way it holds some purpose