I'm making a paint program, so useful tools, ideas and features required please

[Conzeit]

that pixel resize preview thing doesnt sound bad to me at all, after all it's just a brush! unless there's some internal programing problem with it I dont see why u should worry about that...

[happymonster]

I'd just like it to look better in the future.

[happymonster]

In the last few days I've been doing a lot of reading of various blogs regarding user-interface design, icon designs, and other such material to do with creating GUI's.
I think I've read all of the articles on: http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/pages/table-of-contents.aspx, which describes the design and implementation of the Ribbon in MS Office 2007.

I've not actually used the ribbon, and I'm not saying I agree with all their decisions or the visual style, but I found the process fascinating to read up on.

Accordingly, I've done some actual proper design work (GASP!) using Excel as a kind of graph paper + colours + lines + fonts.

I came up with 6 major design themes using the GUI elements in Pixe. I then analysed these and came up with one that from a user interface point of view should require less mouse movements and less precision to reach the major elements as well as visually being more organised and lined up. This was actually quite different from the first decision I mocked up, but has proven the best choice (IMHO).

I've now been mocking up a design to fix some of the minor elements a bit more. But I will now start the process of altering the design layout in Pixe to fit the new design. In some ways it won't be too different, in other aspects it will be different than what I've shown before. Overall, I think it will help in terms of productivity and the 'feel'.

[blumunkee]

Make sure to read this as well. It's a good read, although I personally think balance and convenience should have (slightly) higher precedence over minimalism.

Are you left handed? I was wondering because all the panels are docked on the left side of the canvas. I'm right handed and it feels more comfortable having my UI to the right.

Also, I won't beat around the bush. The 4 pen colors thing is a Bad idea. With a capital b.

[Souly]

I like to collaborate and so from time to time I use OpenCanvas, a CG art program with multi-user connection
And doing a google search I was un-able to find a decent open canvas type program specifically for pixel art.
The problem I had with open canvas was you were just each given a different layer, you were un-able to erase or really properly add onto the other person's sketch.
If that makes sense.

Anyways, I'm proposing the idea for multi-user connection on one canvas if at all possible.

Obviously you're still working on the pixel aspect of it, but yeah just an idea.
Not even sure if it's already been mentioned can't seem to find anything by searching the thread.

[happymonster]

Some good points in the document you posted blumunkee.. Though I wish it was more modern, and not just concerning text based window systems.

Can I ask why people think the 4 pens idea is a bad idea? The specific reasons? Do people think it will be too confusing, or take up too much space?
It is optional if people use the extra two pens at the moment, and I believe MSPaint lets you use a 3rd pen?

Souly: It's a good idea, but that is beyond by abilities at the moment I'm afraid!

[happymonster]

Forgot to say, I am right handed. I know Dpaint had a right sided interface, but since then programs like Photoshop, PSP, Promotion, feature a left sided interface, so I've got used to those.

I'll add a right sided interface option anyway..

[Ai]

Can I ask why people think the 4 pens idea is a bad idea? The specific reasons? Do people think it will be too confusing, or take up too much space?
It is optional if people use the extra two pens at the moment, and I believe MSPaint lets you use a 3rd pen?

MSpaint is better not mentioned in a thread about a serious pixeling/graphics program IMO.

my reasons:
* yes, it's confusing
* we have two hands, in which we could hold one drawing implement each; a pencil has two ends, one for drawing and one for erasing. The metaphor breaks down when the number of pens > 2.
  'swap colors' becomes meaningless, and the equivalent 'cycle colors' is not anywhere near as obvious in it's effects.
* the lack of a good metaphor makes learning harder.
* it would probably take up too much space, in the sense that it would be using space but the user would not utilize or refer to it.

Of course I think new experiments are good, and it's true that I'm simply used to 2 colors; so I think it would be most reasonable to allow the user to enable 4 pens rather than 2, and have this switched off by default (presumably the 2 colors would expand to fill the freed space, which would be appreciated as the current 4 are too small imo)

[happymonster]

MSpaint is better not mentioned in a thread about a serious pixeling/graphics program IMO.

Well, that's an emotional argument, rather than a logical one..

I don't really know if the two pens - two hands analogy is correct. It seems more a case to me that most mice had two buttons..
It just seems that someone who is constantly switching from one colour to another and back again (either via a palette or an eyedropper) could benefit from a 3rd or 4th pen.

[blumunkee]

Photoshop, Promotion, and it's ilk have a thin bar on the left of the canvas for selecting tools. All the other controls get docked to the right of the canvas. I consider that a right handed interface.

My gripes with 4 pen colors boils down to 2 issues:

1. It's foreign – If I pick up any other graphics app I can reasonably expect it to have two colors. When I saw the screenshot of the UI, I was confused. I had to read your posts for an explanation of their use, and I had to reason out how and why I would need them. All in all I found it non-obvious and non-intuitive. Not offensively so, mind you. But it still felt foreign.

2. It's a solution to a non-problem – I have never once say down in front of a pixel editor and felt the need for more pen colors. I think this mirrors the issues the Office developers faced when they sat down and made guesses about what the average user wants and doesn't want, without any actual feedback from the users. It seems like a feature that in theory sounds like it would be useful, but in practice is not useful, or is even detrimental.

My ideal workflow is one which has a quickly accessible color picker and key bindings to increment and decrement the current palette index. This makes it easy to both grab an existing color from the canvas and to move through my organized color ramps without having to mouse over to the palette. The only time I need to defer to the actual palette is when I am modifying colors or reorganizing my palette. It is of utmost importance that I can navigate about my palette while keeping my cursor, and my concentration within the canvas, not in the ancillary panels.

Have said that, if you really think 4 pen colors will be a genuine boon to pixel artists, implement it. I'll be the first to happily admit that I was wrong if it improves my art.