Official Off-Topic Thread

[bengo]

Well of course its not so black and white, but I would still say theres certain things you can do to ensure its more likely to work with whatever end user it may be, just like with the artistic process. But for the most part, I agree with your statement.

[Helm]

My whole point is that I realize why you have some of the opinions you do and at past points I shared some of them "where's the gameplay in my game?!" is a very honest and base reaction when playing a videogame. And at times I was surrounded by like-mindeds that reinforced my points of view. At some point I left that mode of thinking behind and I questioned several concepts I had 'accepted' for a long while and from that I didn't emerge *knowing more* but rather knowing less, being less certain. Socrates would look to me and say "Isn't the boy in a much better position now, in relation to what he does not know?". Question common wisdom, especially stuff that sounds right the first time you hear it. Videogames are not gameplay+graphics+music+whatever, they're one of many modes of human expression and as such are resistant to such positivist chopping-down-to-basic-systems-to-inspect-one-by-one. I am not saying all analysis is useless, I am saying the analysis that matters starts from describing actual experience with something. Not by trying to force a preconception about how things should be over something cursorily examined. If you play games thinking in what ways they deviate from patterns established by metroid or tetris, you're doing a disservice to both yourself and the game. Play it for what it is and then work from there. There's a lot to like and dislike about any game. That you end up liking some more than others doesn't mean there should be more games like those, necessarily.

[bengo]

Action52, try it out. I never said deviating away from formulas was a bad thing, its just its been shown that there are certain things that DO work. So with art does it matter if we don't learn perspective, proportions, anatomy, color theory, a general understanding of light, etc.? If we choose not to learn these things, it'll be much harder for our works to be appealing to a wider audience, not only this but the fact that its likely to be not as well structured and may not even give off the point/feeling/etc. the artist intended. I'm just saying a more successful work will be more (likely) thought-out and is to apply things that have been successful in the past, i.e. things like a simple control scheme.

[Helm]

There are no things that DO work, there are things that work towards some end and for some end users. Those things may or may have not been intended to work like that by the designers and frankly once you're experiencing the thing for yourself those considerations of intention are besides the point.

If you're learning perspective, proportions, etc so your work to appeal to a wider audience you will at some point realize (hopefully) there are deeper reasons of self-actualization that that. In fact if you want to just have a wide appeal with your art fake knowledge in those areas. Copy from other people's art, copy photographs, appropriate other people's art directly. this is what the industry does[/i], most people can't tell the difference or they don't have historic knowledge needed to spot the lifts, there are a lot of liars around that have a very wide audience. All these externalities you talk about are not only why artists make art, they also do it because they have to: some games are like they are because they couldn't be any other way, that was the only thing that would satisfy the inner ambitions of the ones that made them. Don't think about design by committee, don't think about what HAS to work, think about what you're experiencing and what you can get from it.

[bengo]

I like how you say to be more of an open-minded individual, but do it so forcefully, doesn't this defeat the purpose? DON'T think like this, people DO this, NO things work, maybe I'm looking a little into it, just throwing it out there. Why can't there be more depth than just 'what you're feeling'? Also of course there are more reasons than just 'appealing to a wider audience', I wasn't trying to imply thats the ONLY reason you would, I personally think learning the 'fundamentals' among other things just allows you to better enhance whatever you ARE feeling, and I think for games its the same way. Also, you ever notice how most shmups tend to be unique in their own way but have similarities to others in the same genre? Weird how that works? It seems like 'design by committee' and what tends to work is often used but each game is still different and interesting in its own way.

[Helm]

I'm sorry if I sounded forceful, I don't mean you should do as I say or anything. I'm just saying, if you liked some games, that's great. Do we need more games that are variations on those games though? Can't we do different things more? It's not even like Swords and Sorcery is THAT much of a departure (besides the art style that truly is). The combat is like punch-out and perhaps Immortal as far as I can see.

The idea is to not have preconceptions about art because it doesn't fit criteria, to experience it first and then try to describe what it's doing to us (or not doing).

[bengo]

Yeah, I get what you're trying to say, I think this arguments coming a bit to a close, or else we'd just keep debating over the same points so I'll leave it at that if thats alright.

[Jorund]

In other news.... (?)

Does anybody know a good software/image/web/something for calibrating the screen colours/brightness/contrast/gamma?
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the one with the dark monitor or is the other that has too much gamma.

[Ai]

In other news.... (?)

Does anybody know a good software/image/web/something for calibrating the screen colours/brightness/contrast/gamma?
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the one with the dark monitor or is the other that has too much gamma.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

[blumunkee]

http://community.livejournal.com/bleachness/446299.html