Official Off-Topic Thread

[Helm]

Have you played it, bengoshia? Is it out? How do we know it serves no purpose?

[bengo]

Well obviously I'm just going off of the gameplay video they showed, I guess they COULD work with what they have but it doesn't really appeal to me. Also Knytt's alright haven't played much of it. Look I'm not saying it has to be full of action or anything it just doesn't seem like theres much direction going on, from what I have gathered. Here's what I've gathered from the demo: Touch things to make them shake/etc., go in a linear direction, hear sounds, no dialogue (which is fine if done correctly), I don't see much drive in this other than the fact that it looks artsy, which graphics should serve the purpose of helping the gameplay, not the other way around.

[Helm]

no offense but these are like bulletpoint, canned opinions I've heard a hundred times from the 'GAMEPLAY BEFORE ART' camp. If you'd like to have a real discussion on this let's just wait until the game is out and we have a first-hand experience with it, or choose a different game that is out and with which you have these greviances and we'll talk about it. Gameplay is a very hazy term and I don't see how mood, atmosphere and aesthetics can't be as important as whatever that is and still make for a good interactive experience.

[bengo]

All those things come AFTER the core gameplay has been established, story-driven can be good, but if theres little to no gameplay going on, I might as well watch a movie. Of course the two can carry eachother hand in hand, but its called a video GAME for a reason. Helm I suggest you go play some Treasure made games or anything considered good from the Atari/NES camp, shit look at Contra, how much story goes on in that? Sure theres an atmosphere among other things established, but that comes second to gameplay. As far as 'art' games go, I consider the best games to be art, i.e. Shadow of the Colossus, Metal Gear Solid 3, Megaman 2, Resident Evil 4, Super Metroid and obviously these have ALL elements but if you take away their gameplay what do they really have? Might as well just be movies. Hell, what the hell is Tetris about? Thats one of the most popular games ever made and is there much story going on there? Also regardless of your feelings on this argument, this game does not look like its a work of art, it just looks like its artsy, this will be no match for a Japan Studio (Team Ico) game, hell this probably won't be even remembered 5-10 years from now. Just to note if I sound harsh I don't mean to, this is all in good fun.

[9_6]

Don't be silly, all games are art.
Just like all movies, all comics/pictures and all musics are art. There is no quality required, only creativity.

As for gameplay, funny how you name metal gear solid since that series is known for being extremely cutscene-heavy.
Also, to name a popular recent game, what about heavy rain? That game is nothing but story. Is that not a game too?

[bengo]

Are you implying that you don't interact in either MGS OR Heavy Rain? Heavy Rain is all about interacting with the story, games today obviously are more story-driven but gameplay has not and isn't gonna budge anytime soon. If its all about creativity, I suggest you check out Action52 or Batman Forever, its all about the creativity not quality right? Come now, if anything the two probably go hand in hand. Now look, this game could be good, I might be wrong, I'm just going off what I saw, so Helm's right, we'll just need to wait til it comes out.

[Helm]

I've played most of the Treasure games from the 16-bit era. I am aware of various schools of thought on the matter but I think most proponents of the 'GAMES AS GAMEPLAY' point of view are being purposefully narrow-minded to be argumentative and to draw a line in the sand. Metal Gear Solid games have some amazing concepts sometimes but most of the gameplay is seriously broken, yet they're still very impactful experiences. I don't care if they're games or not, call them whatever you want, I care that they're interactive and they lead to thoughts, emotions, considerations.

I think your judgment call that a game that hasn't come out yet is not a work of art but just 'artsy' is groundless. Your hunch says more about you than the game.

[bengo]

On the contrary, the gameplay in Metal Gear Solid is masterfully crafted, along with graphics, music, sound, the cutscenes are obviously a big part and keep you attatched but its not JUST that, as stated previously. The best games are the best in all departments, for instance, Uncharted 2 may have not anything new to the table gameplay-wise but what keeps it going is that the gameplay works well and is smooth, story is what obviously keeps the player playing but the gameplay has enough depth to make it fun on its own. Also do I have to keep re-iterating that this is solely based off the demo video I saw on it? I even said it COULD be good and I COULD be wrong, not that this game is automatically bad, it just doesn't look very interesting, besides the artistic direction they took. Are you implying I'm somehow more ignorant just because of this hunch? That I'm less of what you perceive as a gamer in your mind? Games ARE gameplay, believe it or not, thats not ALL it has, but its not a game without interactivity. The main component a game needs though is good, core gameplay and obviously story, graphics, sounds, etc. can help to compliment that, at the end of the day you still need interactivity to make it a video game.

EDIT: After reviewing the game for a second time, I realized I didn't see that second video, this could be ALRIGHT, but as I've said before, it would need to be done correctly, so hopefully thats what they do. It still does not look like my cup of tea and still has that 'artsy' feel to it.

[crab2selout.png]

I like the rotation idea. I thnk it's pretty neat how holding hte screen horizontally goes into peaceful mode, just like how horizontal rhythm lines  are supposed to be peaceful and calming. Then you flip the screen vertically for violence, again relating to vertical rhythm lines.

I hope they ditch the boss health meter. Kinda kills the moment for me. The boss's shield pounding/taunt just doesn't work for me, when I can clearly see how vulnerable it is because of the healthbar.

[Jorund]

I hope they ditch the boss health meter. Kinda kills the moment for me. The boss's shield pounding/taunt just doesn't work for me, when I can clearly see how vulnerable it is because of the healthbar.

Besides that, the battle was extremely easy, that power blow was very VERY slow.  I think he just took the hit so he could show us, that he can get hurt.