AuthorTopic: (edit) chibby commander keen walks  (Read 5161 times)

Offline PypeBros

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(edit) chibby commander keen walks

on: August 19, 2008, 09:52:58 pm
just for fun, i pixelated that to test the 32x32 mode of my editor

do you spot any thing i should have done differently ?

(yeah, i know, this is mega-man frenzy. I tried to come with something megaman-esque ... i mean i really tried. Even just a mettaur, but all that came good was Commander Keen, defender of Earth)

*edit* works better with an outline, imho.
*edit again* had fun. made him walking "very casually". Critiques welcome since i plan to reuse this as boilerplate for further "chibby characters".
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 09:11:28 pm by PypeBros »

Offline Krut

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 09:51:19 am
OH!, iīve been meaning to reply to this adorable rendition of Keen, and you took all of my suggestions out of my keyboard!
Some sort of contrasting (either coloured o pure black) outline was missing from this in order for it to really pop out.

Even tho, i really like the color scheme you chose (it pays a real tribute to the original keen), since you already reworked a bit of the character into "chibi" form, you might want to delight us with a more modern pallette? (this is more of a suggestion th)

Some more crits;
-I see some issues with Keenīs left hand on the "standing" sprite tho, since it isnt very readable at the moment.
-The shading seems a bit messy at parts (that lonely purple pixel on the shirt is killing me!), specially in the animation, and most noticeable on the pants.
-Im aware that you limited yourself both with the size, and the frame number but;
                       a) - I really think you could to better than just "chop" the top of the helmet, you can lower his head a few pixels, with almost no lost;
                           - Of course, this would mean also lowering the standing sprite (assuming they are treated "as one") in order for it to match the height of the animation;
                           - I think that, that was a mistake on your part, since you should have contemplated that, while creating it, otherwise you could have been more creative with the animation, in a way that the sprite isnt chopped (for instance, he could be sort of hunched forward, with a more "power walk" and he would fit the 32x32 AND also be more "true" to the original source)
                       b) - The 2-frame movement of the torso seems really stiff, and kinda breaks the flow of the animation;
                           - You can try to make his helmet move a bit independently of the head (sort of bouncing down for instance), that would make him have more character, and break the stiffness of the movement (more independence);
                           - You have 4 frames, but you are only taking advantage of 3! make it count!, at the moment the leg movement seems confusing also, because a great part of it sort of "repeats" or "remains" the same during the animation (the same happens with his right shoulder for example);
                           - Try to make the shading change during the different frames; for instance, Keenīs entire right arm "leaves the torso area", and the shading doesnt reflect that.


Cheers! Keep at it, im loving it, and im surprised no one else replied!  :y:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 09:53:16 am by Krut »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 11:37:31 am
thanks. I'll try to take these points into account. Indeed, the chopped line is something i forgot to fix in the "post-production" (Gimp) phase. From your comments, i think i'm rather going for a 32x32 keen plus 32x16 helmet so that it will both solve my issue with 32x33 sprite and ease animation ... or maybe i'll go for a 32x16 headless keen walking plus the 32x16 head on top of that ... that might save tiles.

Actually, my walking animation *is* three frames only (A-B-C-B)*
I'll try to take your other comments on isolated pixels, shadow and confusing legs later on in the evening.
Thanks again.

Offline Krut

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 12:36:52 pm
Actually, my walking animation *is* three frames only (A-B-C-B)*

Thatīs the point, in the "actual" animation you are showing 4 frames, im sure that from the technical point of view (say size limits) you efectively have 3 actual frames, but animation wise, you are using 4.. yeah, im repetitive  :crazy:

Cheers, looking forward to an update

Offline PypeBros

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 03:04:15 pm
Even tho, i really like the color scheme you chose (it pays a real tribute to the original keen), since you already reworked a bit of the character into "chibi" form, you might want to delight us with a more modern pallette? (this is more of a suggestion th)

Could you give me hints too on how you'd provide that "more modern" palette ?

Arne's ? or go beyond the 16-colours restriction ?

i mean, i'd like to keep Keen's purple shirt and blue jeans, and i fear tinting his skin. Beside a couple of extra colours for more AA (i'm currently doing as the initial gfxers did and use greys for the AAs) or opting for less saturated tones, i don't see how it could be improved, honnestly.

Offline Corsair

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 03:28:56 pm
I would reccoment not recycling the same frame twice. while it's easier that way, i guess if you're using the full four frames you may as well make *good* use of them

Offline Krut

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 08:09:58 pm
Even tho, i really like the color scheme you chose (it pays a real tribute to the original keen), since you already reworked a bit of the character into "chibi" form, you might want to delight us with a more modern pallette? (this is more of a suggestion th)

Could you give me hints too on how you'd provide that "more modern" palette ?

Arne's ? or go beyond the 16-colours restriction ?

i mean, i'd like to keep Keen's purple shirt and blue jeans, and i fear tinting his skin. Beside a couple of extra colours for more AA (i'm currently doing as the initial gfxers did and use greys for the AAs) or opting for less saturated tones, i don't see how it could be improved, honnestly.

Basically im not talking about 16 colour restriction, im talking about the actual pallette restriction; commander Keen was built with the Ega pallette in mind i think, and those where Ok back then, but they are some fugly colours now (nostalgy aside of course).
To tell you the truth, i dont know how those colours arent burning your retina (nostalgy aside), pick some new colours, while keeping the same 16-colour limit (heh, could be even less).

Offline PypeBros

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #7 on: August 21, 2008, 08:20:20 pm
To tell you the truth, i dont know how those colours arent burning your retina (nostalgy aside), pick some new colours, while keeping the same 16-colour limit (heh, could be even less).

Oh! you mean that  :P

I guess i love having my retina burnt.

Nah, seriously, my DS is phat and has somehow washed out colours. If it's just a matter of adjusting saturation, i can handle it afterwards.

Offline PypeBros

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 08:01:56 am
->
only purples needed a de-saturation, actually (at least imho). I also added an intermediary shade for every tint.
i tried to fix the chop by moving the head one pixel down, which didn't looked fully satisfying ... i guess i'll go for a separate helmet sprite.

also experimented some hue shift in the helmet on the right one. i cannot stand plain yellow rasters anymore :P
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 08:06:38 am by PypeBros »

Offline Krut

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Re: (edit) chibby commander keen walks

Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 09:42:55 pm
only purples needed a de-saturation, actually (at least imho). I also added an intermediary shade for every tint.
i tried to fix the chop by moving the head one pixel down, which didn't looked fully satisfying ... i guess i'll go for a separate helmet sprite.

also experimented some hue shift in the helmet on the right one. i cannot stand plain yellow rasters anymore :P

-First, Its not really a matter of only desaturation of colours, its a matter of a more careful, "intelligent" choise of colours. Unless you are limiting yourself to the EGA pallette, thereīs no reason for you to keep those colour choises  (its a bit tricky tho, since they are a integral part of the character, but you have to balance design vs source; in that sense, as long as you can balance it, theres no need for instance, for keen to have a pure white/gray face, as you will see ).

I took the liberty of making a really rushed edit, it also has a lower colour count, and can be easily optimized for even less, try to choose your colours and tint, in such a way that they can be used in other parts of the sprite, hence, youīll have a more eficient pallette (some people do this after the finished sprite, but then, you loose a bit of the  char, and IMO you need to reworks some aspects).

The ramp of your colours also seems pretty straightforward, and you should move away from that (and round it up with what i said before about mixing your colours), for instance, the yellow in the helmet just gets darker or desaturated, but it doesnt  really swings towards another colour; thats a mistake, (IMO) as you should tint the yellow with orange for instance, and it would make the darker colour used as shadow more richer, and then, you can use that same colour as a shade for the face...get the point?

Second, we have the way in wich you are shading the sprite, there doesnt seem to be a real relation between shape, light and the effect that it has on the rest of the body, and some of your shading just seem random.

Take for example, Keenīs  left shoulder...the light source seems to be in front of him (his left side taking in account how the rest of the body is shaded) and his left arm is  covering the light from getting there, and forming some sort of "corner" with the head, wich make it, i dont want to say "dark" place in the body, but certainly, should be darker than the rest, like the torso wich seems fully lighted up.

Try as an exercise to just shade with the same 2 or 3 colours, dont add any more, try to really wip the shape of the character up, how one thing that is on top of another in relation of the light casts a shadow, wrinkles, etc!

-Third problem i have, is the stance like i already told you, a second sprite is not really neccessary, you just need to use some efficient pose, and then you can kill to birds with one stone, as you can give the character a real personality.



Also, hope you get some ideas out of the edit

Also, all the colours could help you get rid (tho personally i love black outlines) of the black outline, and replace it with a colored one, wich can help you see how the shape should react to light.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 11:31:29 pm by AdamAtomic »