AuthorTopic: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns  (Read 17928 times)

Offline Souly

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Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

on: July 18, 2008, 05:03:11 pm

I assume most of you are looking at that like what the fuck...
I'm making a tactical web RPG.
Each player chooses their class and each has it's own movement/attack restrictions.
Since it's not really art I threw in some bad sketches for each class.

Think of chess on a more dynamic scale; Blue is Movement, Red is Attack, Purple is Move or Attack, Orange is Casting, 1 means low chance of critical hit 2 means high chance of critical hit.

Anyone have any suggestions or comments?

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 05:52:24 pm
a more complicated version of chess?

Before you pixel anything, make some cardboard cutouts and try to play this with a friend. The possibilities or lack thereof will be apparent.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 05:58:57 pm
a more complicated version of chess?

Before you pixel anything, make some cardboard cutouts and try to play this with a friend. The possibilities or lack thereof will be apparent.
Yea, I actually just pulled out my chess set.
I've got to do first class stats and find some dice and I should be good to go.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 08:22:52 pm

I fixed up a few things.
Got rid of the confusing purple color and the 1s and 2s.

All of these attacks can be made based on where the character is.
The orange is for aura this is determined by your appearance.
Your custom avatar will effect this, each class has different aura types they can pick from.

Offline Batzy

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 08:27:30 pm
Hey nice thing you got there, but isn't it thief ? not theif  :)

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 08:33:39 pm
Hey nice thing you got there, but isn't it thief ? not theif  :)
Yeah, I noticed the typo a while ago.
Wasn't concerned I'll be sure to fix it next update.



If anyone has any ideas for other classes I'd be happy to hear them.  :D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 08:45:52 pm by Souly »

Offline Feron

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #6 on: July 19, 2008, 02:05:34 am
                 __---- Mage ---- Wizard
Magician  < __
                     ---- Warlock ---- Sorcerer


                  __---- Rifleman ---- Marksman
Musketeer < __
                      ---- Mortar ---- Demolitioner


             __---- Mounted Knight ---- Griffon rider
Trainer <__
                 ---- Wolf Rider ---- Elephant master


              __---- Longbow man ---- fire-arrow man ??
Fletcher <__
                 ---- Crossbowman ---- Balista operator

also try and work in classes like : hunter, paladin, rogue, elf (dark elf, blood elf, night elf), Priests, warrior, barbarian, shaman, axeman,
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 02:15:14 am by Feron »

Offline Beoran

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #7 on: July 19, 2008, 06:45:35 pm
Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but I think that all of this looks very difficult to remember for something that isn't a board game.
The only game that I know that uses a similar approach is the old Gameboy game "Castle Quest", and that's
a very obscure game.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/home/929600.html
You should s]emulate it[/s]get it somewhere to get an idea of what it's like.

Most tactical RPG's use a simple combination of "walking range" though "movement points", combined with an "attack range" which you could express in  "range points". A diagonal move usually costs 2 movement points, a straight one 1 movement point. The same goes for attack range points.

For the idea of a chance to a critical attack to be higher when the character hasn't moved very much,, you could make the critical attack rate proportional to the amount of movement points left. You could even range in the remaining "range points" for a ranged attack or a spell, as to make a spell or ranged attack more effective at point blank range. Say, say critical hit%  = 1% + movement point% + range point%.

Well, I hope that my suggestion is helpful to you. I really don't want to discourage you, I just think that for tactical RPG's there are some generally accepted conventions that most players will consider essential. While it is very creative to stray from these conventions, it is also risky and may make your game difficult for people to "get started", and thus, unpopular.
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #8 on: July 19, 2008, 09:51:23 pm
although this system seems interesting at the outset, it's not clear that the patterns satisfy one of the two necessary requirements for logical gameplay:

the movement/action patterns satisfy the basic needs of the game in a way that makes each of the pieces important
the movement/action patterns are implied by the type or role of the piece.

the classes you've got right now are more like extensions of each other, which make sense, but there isn't a discernible way that the progressions fullfill any need other than mobility - in fact, they seem to complicate the issue more than they help.

feron - those suggestions sound good at a glance too but they suffer from the same problem - no need, nothing added (yet).

how do we make things work then?

1 - institute reasons for having each piece, and rather than create roles to fit players, create players to fit roles.  For intsance, you don't have a proper defensive unit, while your two sorts of melee combatants are essentially the same - heavy damage over a broad range.
In addition, there's no sort of attack or defense bonuses or anything, which means that all units are basically the same against units of similar rank, because they can just move to put the adversary in range and then attack.  This also means that feron's classes are unnecessary.

rather, we could set up something like this:

A - melee - Armsman - slowly moves (one square cardinal), attacks small range (one square cardinal)  This is a basic unit capable of applying some pressure and covering some ground.  His main weakness is being forced to move into the enemies' range before he gets the chance to attack.
AA - melee offense - Horseman - moves faster (two squares cardinal, one square diagonal), attacks small range (one square cardinal)  This unit closes ground faster allowing the player to attack first.
AAA - melee offense charger - Knight - good movement along the cardinal points and small range.  This unit closes ground very quickly and can break lines well before being struck, running over simple footmen (bonus against ABB).  However, his attack is very predictable which allows the enemy to set up a proper defense.
AAB - melee offense flanker - Hussar - good movement along the diagonal lines and small range.  This unit relies on his unpredictability to circumvent enemy preparations (bonus against ABA).  His ability to change direction also allows him some defensive flexibility when the odds are against you.
AB - melee defense - Sergeant - moves fine (one square any), attacks fine range (one square any).  Although this unit is slow moving, his spear makes him more than capable of intercepting his opponents.
ABA - melee defense blocker - Pikeman - moves fine, attacks good range.  Despite being slow, this unit can attack and pin charging units with it's long weapon.  A single unit can bristle with enough ferocity to deter even the bravest horse from attacking straight on (bonus against AAA).
ABB - melee defense intercepter - Halberdiers - moves faster, attacks fine range - this unit's attacking range is made up for by its ability to close with the enemy, particularly those that have overextended themselves (bonus against AAB).  His ability to cover ground offers limited offensive flexibility when the odds are against you.


see what i'm doing here?  already you have guys which fulfill specific tasks, each of which is necessary to use or avoid, and with three less melee classes to juggle.  Your two branches right now don't really offer logical bonuses and the attack ranges don't align themselves with the class type name.  Why should a spartan CHARGE?  What does brigadier (a rank of field officer never tied to a weapon) have to do with anything? (i've changed this to sergeant, as this was in medieval times used to designate a man worthy of carrying a spear into battle, but spearman may be the best name).  Why does your dragoon seem to have a melee range, instead of his customary carbine?  The player won't know what to do when he sees these pieces.

Many games institute simple bonus systems like the one i've suggested to help balance.  the most common are threes and fours, withe each defeating another.  I've suggested a simple two-pair system of speed and flexibility (fast rigid beats slow flex beats fast flex beats slow rigid beats fast rigid).  Many games prefer the sword beats spear beats lance beats sword and the rifle beats horse beats cannon beats rifle (which are both "rock paper scissors" relationships, not unlike the pokemon starting 3).

I won't go past the melee classes because I just don't understand how the others have been worked out, they seem pretty arbitrary.


Also - as I was told in my old thread - Hawkeye is too strange a name to see good use.
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Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #9 on: July 20, 2008, 02:53:12 am
Thanks for the post ndchristie, I'll look over it again before I make any changes. :]
Okay, I've changed a lot...
I've decided to start thinking about stats.
And how they will effect your character.

Health - Vitality, Will
Energy - Wisdom, Will
Power Attack, Dexterity
Spirit Dmg- Attack, Wisdom
Dodge - Agility
Defense - Will, Vitality
Hit rate - Dexterity, Attack
Cast/Reload speed - Wisdom, Agility

Movement is no longer based on your class, too confusing.
Your movement will be based off of your Agility and Dexterity.
For example)
5 Agility will allow you to move in all 4 directions by 1 square
10 Dexterity will allow you to move in the 4 Diagonal directions by 1 square
30 Agility would allow 4 directions by 2 squares
45 Dexterity would allow 4 directions diagonally by 2 squares
Depending on what the character builds they will be able create their own movement grid.



Characters now have splash damage/secondary attacks.
I've gotten rid of the aura system WAY too much...
Players will instead cast these on themselves or anyone at anytime.

The light red (orange) can have two different meanings to classes, some have both.
1. If a player is in the splash tile, and someone is hit in a main tile touching that splash tile.
There is a chance it could do damage to them too.
Players can attack the where the splash damage area is just like the attack tiles.
2. Secondary weapon/attack, some classes have secondary weapons/attacks.
Example) Swashbuckler uses a pistol and a falchion
The pistol areas do more damage because they are the main attack of the Swashbuckler.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 08:40:53 am by Souly »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #10 on: July 20, 2008, 11:12:49 am
one quick question : why is inventor the only asymmetrical piece?  IMO, either have them all with fronts and backs, or have none of them such a way.
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Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 04:40:39 pm
The inventor moves exactly like a horse from chess.
Dexterity will increase this part of the L~
And Agility will increase this part. -L
He also doesn't attack like anyone else he lays traps instead and can hit all around him with his wrench.

I'm going to try and type up reasons for having each class.

A - melee - Armsmen) 1 handed sword and Shield; Attacks strong in 4 directions by 1 square (can defend against bullets)
AA - melee offense - Brute, Beserker) 2 handed sword; Attacks 8 directions by 2 squares
AAA - melee offense charger - Soldier, Knight) Long sword and Shield; Attacks in 8 directions by 1 square (defends against bullets)
AAB - melee offense flanker - Begger, Thief, Rogue) Throwing Daggers; Attacks strong diagonally, 8 directional attack by 1 square
ABB - melee defense interceptor - Spearmen) Pole-arm; Attacks 4 directions by 2 squares
ABA - melee defense blocker - Lancer, Dragoon) Pole-arm; Can attack in every direction or jump and attack the far squares
BAB - melee defense guard - Sergeant, Spartan) Spear, Buckler; Attacks 8 directions by 2-4 squares (defends against bullets)

B - tech - Sailor) Rifle; Shoots in 8 directions by 2 squares
BB - tech offense - Skalywag, Navigator, Barrelsmith) Pistols, Explosives; Shoots in a perimeter around him
BBB - tech charger - Lieutenant, General) Shotgun; Shoots in 4 directions in front of him hitting all tiles in one direction at once
BBC - tech flanker - Sniper, Hawkeye) Long range rifle; Shoots in a perimeter around him and 4 directions in front of him
BC - tech defense -  Grungetech, Mechanic, Techsmith) Wrench; Attacks diagonally in a spread pattern and repair/craft items (defends against melee)
BCC - tech defense interceptor - Swashbuckler, Captain) Falchion, Pistol; Attacks in 4 directions and shoots in a perimeter (defends against melee)
BCB - tech defense blocker - Gadgeteer, Inventor) Wrench, Traps; Attacks in 8 directions and plants traps around him

C - magic - Student) Books; Attacks in 8 directions at once
CC - magic offense - Scholar, Teacher) Wand, Books; Attacks in 8 directions at once in a gapped perimeter around him and can melee in 4 directions
CCC - magic charger - Dropout, ?.?.?) Mace, Staff; Attacks in 4-8 directions at once by 1 square and uses melee to attack for distance
CCD - magic flanker - Herbalist) Bong, Smoke; Hits diagonally by 4 squares and smokes
CD - magic defense - Dealer, Healer) Needles, Acid; Stabs in 4-8 directions and tosses acid to add range
CDD - magic defense interceptor - Busker, Musician) Guitar, Singing; Attacks in 4 diagonals hitting all tiles in one direction at once
CDC - magic defense blocker - Chemist, Chronical) Mixtures, Smoke; Blows smoke diagonally by 2 squares causing area of effect damage

Not sure if this is what you were talking about..
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 06:40:22 pm by Souly »

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #12 on: July 20, 2008, 10:55:45 pm
You're approaching game design backwards. You want to draw cool tactics sprites I guess and this creates so many classes, and then you try to come up with reasons to have classes. This isn't how a good game is made, imo, and certainly not how you make a strategy game.

The elegance of a good tactical game comes from iterative design. You find ONE gameplay element that is proven to work and be fun (in playing, not in theory) and you build on it, you create interesting variations of it and give it depth. You don't start with stats and borrowed schemes for movement. These things are superficial. Right now you're mimicking what other people have done and not thinking about why they did it, no offense.

Nevertheless I urge you to just go ahead and do whatever you had in mind, run it through to the best of your ability. Relative success or failure will teach you more than Pixelation ever could about game design.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #13 on: July 20, 2008, 11:50:56 pm
Also I think it is a bit overly complicated, all the different ways of attack and movement. To lay out a proper strategy while playing with rules like this you better be a member of Mensa.
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Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 12:11:39 am
The player only controls one unit.
Eventually over time I may add the ability to have apprentices, but at the moment they only control themselves.
No need to memorize every single classes grid.
If they are ever confused of what the other classes can do they can always hover over their respective image and their grid will be shown to them.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 03:43:35 am
Okay, I think I have developed a way to make things A LOT more simple for the user.
Rather then classes having their own attack grids, I decided to just make every weapon it's own grid.
Classes could have specific moving patterns if I decide to do it that way or stick with stats deciding the users movement grid.


If a user equips two items the grids combine.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #16 on: July 21, 2008, 02:04:49 pm
Again, this isn't game design. I am not trying to be an asshole. It would pay to approach your videogame from the beginning, not just drop in the middle with gun grids?

Offline Beoran

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #17 on: July 21, 2008, 03:23:40 pm
There are no popular tactical RPG's that allow you to control only one character at the time thoughout the game. If you have only one controllable character on a grid it's not a tactical RPG but a Roguelike RPG. You have to understand what Helm is saying. You should try to stick to the staples of the genre and try to make a few interesting variations on the main theme. It's good that you'll make the movement movement point based. As for weapon attack patterns, why not make it a lot easier and give the weapons a minimum and maximum range? 

Oh, and if you want to see how a TRPG is made, why not get the source code of the open source tactical RPG Battle for Wesnoth, and see how they do it. I'm sure you'll get inspiration from that game. It's specific variations are a hex based grid, and totally attacker-determined damage. Units have generally have a the same defense ratings, only different HP. To hit % is determined by the unit's nature and the terrain the unit is on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_for_Wesnoth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike


Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #18 on: July 21, 2008, 04:19:54 pm
Helm: I'm not exactly sure where else I'm supposed to start.
I thought this seemed like the best place to start so I can explain the battle system in my mind to the coders who I am approaching about this project.
If you have any suggestions on where I should start I'd be happy to hear them.

The reason I'm not giving some of the weapons 8 directional attacking is because the classes that use those weapons aren't really melee fighters.
Those classes don't really depend on melee attacks,  they just CAN attack you, just not very well.

I thought I was giving the range to each weapon here... That's what the grids are.
Your classes will get masteries which will allow you to increase your range with that specific weapon.
I understand that tactics usually means you control multiple units.
My hopes is that this game will eventually allow you to control up to 3 people at once.
So that makes this game roguelike at the start, and then later you can choose to just keep with your one character if you like going solo.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #19 on: July 21, 2008, 04:48:08 pm
You start with something that is fun. Grid patterns are not fun. Code something that is fun, programmer art and then you've got something going.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 05:16:22 pm
I don't know the first thing about coding anything.
That's why I'm approaching other people with these diagrams so they can understand what it is I'm going for.
I've got most of this RPG written down and typed out, I'm just trying to get a unique system.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #21 on: July 21, 2008, 05:19:06 pm
A unique anything that isn't fun is not something worthwhile to make. If you're approaching coders with movement-attack grids for a tactical rpg then you also don't know much about game design. Again sorry if this sounds like an asshole thing to say, I really do not wish to offend you and I do wish you best of luck with the project. It may be worthwhile to consider the implications of what I am saying though.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 08:14:37 pm
I just spoke with my buddy who's going to school for game development and programming.
He says the first thing you must do when planning a game is thinking of it's core.
The biggest feature of this RPG is more or less the battle system.
So I don't really see how I'm failing by planning out the battle system and how it works in relation to the user.

I'm sure there are many other things I need to plan out.
Such as balancing and purpose of each class.
This is something I understand and will take into account with my update.
I have been doing a lot of research today and yesterday as well, so I have a few ideas.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 08:38:04 pm
Great but the start of a battle system is not what you're doing. How will battles happen? In what terrain?What is the technological level? What is the setting? With what characters? Do you need square grid? How about hexagonal? How about pixel-perfect? How about something else? Do you need classes or can you do variations with other ways? Does combat occur with dice-rolls? Does combat work differently from afrar and up-close? How does facing work? Can you flank an enemy? Are there HP or do you have some other system for counting damage (per body part or even just 1hp per unit)? Does terrain play a part on the tactics? Do holding lines? Can you force a terrain on the enemy? Can you run away from a battle?

All these things (and many more) need answering before you start thinking about the 'ranges of weapons'. They are inconsequential at this point. You don't know what game you're making yet.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 09:06:50 pm
in my opinion, you can start anywhere.. hell, whatever gives you inspiration/motivation should be all the justification you need for developing it however way you see fit.
and everything is a process.. you'll develop other areas of the game/game design in time.. you don't need it all this instant. nothing good comes from rushing things.. well thats usually the case. sometimes people must learn at their own pace.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 10:25:09 pm
I've changed a lot about this RPG this morning so be prepared for a few paragraphs.

The idea is an open world tactical game.
At the start the player much choose race, skin color, hair and eye color.
Some of these choices are permanent except for hair and hair color.
Players have to build their characters stats to appropriately match the needs of their class.
Vitality, Attack, Agility, Dexterity, Wisdom, Will

These stats will determine
Health - Vitality, Will
Energy - Wisdom, Will
Power Attack, Dexterity
Spirit Dmg- Attack, Wisdom
Dodge - Agility
Defense - Will, Vitality
Hit rate - Dexterity, Attack
Cast/Reload speed - Wisdom, Agility

I still have to come up with a good way for calculation using these stats for what actually happens when a player hits or gets hit.
Haven't come up with that party yet which is a good core element to the game.

Each player has choose 2 of 5 basic skills, they can get the others down the road if they want.
Wait, Jump, Throw, Avoid, Counter
Players must then choose their starting class.
Classes will determine what weapons will have bonuses, and what skills you can learn.
They must then pick their weapon choice, they can pick any weapon really, your class is just going to be less effective with it.
Your attack grid is based on what weapons you have chosen.

The player moves around freely while in the open world to make traveling less of a pain.
The player can party up with other users and explore the open world finding monsters and defeating them for experience points.
There are three types of monsters.
Non-Aggressive (attack and the others might just run)
Passive-Aggressive (you hit one, you fight all)
Aggressive (they're coming for you)

If you engage a monster battle restrictions are put into place instantly.
This can be done either by attacking the monster, or just getting in it's range of view.
Monsters you have engaged can not be attacked by other players unless they are in your guild or party.
You have 30 seconds or so to make a move, if you fail to make your move in time your player will defend for that turn.
The monsters will make their move directly after the person who engaged them makes his move.

For example you engage 3 monsters.
All 3 of those monsters will move after you move.
Unless they are engaged by someone in your party else via attack in which case their turn will occur after that person moves.
If a monster feels threatened they may engage the person coming after them before they even get to attack it to take it off the other player.

Movement is no longer going to be GRID/board game format.
I realized terrain such as trees and bridges would be difficult for someone with diagonal only movement...
The player will move in any direction by 3 squares.
Now both moving AND attacking are going to be assigned Stamina.
Your average player will have like 10 stamina.
Attacking with a light weapon will take away 5 stamina where as a heavy weapon or a spell would take about 8.
Moving one square will take 2 stamina or so.
So 3 squares would take 6.
Allowing you to move and attack, or vise versa.

Does this clear up a lot for you about the game helm?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 10:32:28 pm by Souly »

Offline Helm

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #26 on: July 22, 2008, 12:22:13 am
It does, but

Quote
They must then pick their weapon choice, they can pick any weapon really, your class is just going to be less effective with it.

then why have the option? If it doesn't add to the design then it's just unnecessary clutter?

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 12:25:28 am
Oh but it does add to the design, some classes just simply can't use a fire arm or a sword.
There will be restrictions to what weapons you can use, you're just given a choice between a few.

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #28 on: July 22, 2008, 09:12:35 am
Very simple question that needs a very short answer. What is your game about?
Like how Mario is about jumpan and everything else in the game is built to support it. Or like how Bioshock is about rapture and everything is there to support it and things that might hurt it are completely omitted.

You shouldn't be thinking about all these classes and hair color too much at an early stage. I'd suggest you think as simple as possible, how to make a basic battle fun to play(or whatever you want to emphasize). Have some design philosophy that you can carry around from the ground up. Also be dynamic about the design early on, it lets you stumble upon happy accidents. If you've designed 500 pages worth of classes, weapons, skills, towns, NPC:s and whatever, you might have to cut a big part out once you find out there's something not-fun in the fundamentals.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 11:42:33 am
I think it works both ways.

Partisan started as a job tree, or more like a "look" based around a job tree
(I also realize that in it's perpetual non-completion* (life is distracting) partisan might not be the best example, but it's what i know

then it was said, hey, let's make something with these guys about arena-scale battles with one side using magic and the other side technology (bit of a trite idea won't lie, but it's a foundation).

then the job tree needed to change completely, so it's a good thing we'd done nothing with it yet. instead of item, magic, ranged, and melee, we realized that we'd need different branches for each role.  if we'd already planned out archers (nixed for guns) and mages (nixed for offensive support, item being defensive support), we'd have had to throw out a lot of stuff, or said "hell we're going to stuff mages in here anyway!" and then we'd have trouble.

so yeah, you can start with more specific ideas, but they need to be vague and ready to change.  for me, i knew i wanted a game with a round job tree, and that to me was interesting, but then it got redrawn completely when we said let's do this.


* i have played a paper-and-pencil version against myself and a few of my friends which worked out pretty fun, just with the four basic classes.  We've also adapted a pretty classic structure which doesn't ensure fun, but it helps.  Also what i learned from this is to play as early as you possibly can so as to balance things.  my first test the riflemen rocked the field, which necessitated a change in mechanics (gunners now have to use a turn reloading, to limit their deathmaking ability).
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #30 on: July 22, 2008, 12:53:58 pm
This is why rapid prototyping is a great idea when making a game. If you become attached to something you think is cool for 3 months and then the coder finally realizes it won't work you'll feel more inclined to change coders than ideas.

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #31 on: July 22, 2008, 05:41:23 pm
Very simple question that needs a very short answer. What is your game about?
Okay, this is what I have come up with at the moment...
I suck at writting original stories, I'll probably get one of my literate friends to help me make a better one...

Anywho...
Terra Online is a world of all realities living amongst each other.
Zombies, Pirates, Ninjas, Vikings, Monsters, Medieval and a Modern time period.
The monsters contain the zombie virus, monsters are always heading towards the town.
I'm trying to think of a good way of tossing the zombie virus in with the actual gameplay.
I'm thinking perhaps when you die to monsters you have about 5:00 minutes to live as a zombie.
You can try and bite your friends, or try booking it to town to spread the virus.
Priests, Musicians, and the Herbalist will have the power to reverse the zombie virus.
AI guards in town will also go after you if they see you've turned into a zombie.

When you start everyone starts in their classes island.
My idea for the globe, I'll sketch up a shitty concept.

The mass of land wraps around the planet with a large sea in the middle with a group of islands.
The humans decided to move all civilians to the islands, they still have monsters attacking them but they're not as strong as the ones on land.
When you arrive a guard comes up to you and asks you for help.
There was recently a zombie outbreak amongst the island, it was contained but most all of the towns defenses were taken down.
The guard asks for your assistance to help raid off monsters from the island.

You as a player will have to unlock each town if you want to get some of the unique avatar items that only that town has to offer.
Which will require you to level up by defending towns, and doing quests.

That's all I have at the moment.
Am I just blabbering or did any of that make sense?


@ndchristie: Yeah, I just made a large scaled chess board so I can try out a few classes at once if I want to.
I need to get a room mate to help me with the formula system I'm going to use for the battles so that I can test this in ALMOST REAL 3D version 2.0
And yeah I already thought out reloading, I'm thinking the pistol will have 6 shots before reload and the rifles will have to reload after every shot.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 06:34:43 pm by Souly »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #32 on: July 22, 2008, 06:41:33 pm
heh, that handgun trick actually is how partisan works, too!  with the exception that handguns fire three inaccurate, slightly weaker shots per turn, so you have to reload every third turn instead of every second.

As for the story, I think there is a lot of good zombie\disease ideas to draw on in the world.  here's an idea that's a little out there but might give you some other ideas to actually use :

the disease is spread by infected biological material entering the body.  because of the number of infected, the entire population has been exposed to small amounts of the material just in the air, meaning that everyone is waging an internal battle against the infection, which comes into the game in several ways, indicated by the "infection meter."

 - simply put, allowing the infection to spread throughout your body turns you into a monster.  A fun thing for this would be to let the player start over if he zombies, as in most games, but then keep his old character in the field, so that he becomes a fiend for other players to battle.
 - open wounds allow more infected material to enter the body as well as that all-necessary blood to leak out, hastening the process of infection.  taking damage will increase the rate at which the infection spreads.
 - resting and medical attention are the only way to fight the infection, so the player has to balance his zombie killing with proper care.
 - as the player survives with the virus inside, he gradually becomes adapted to it, meaning that higher level characters will need more infected material to succumb, aka they have a bigger\slower infection meter.
 - the virus is not without it's good points though.  the more infected you are, the more zombie powas you build.  thus, the only way to properly increase your abilities is to spend as much time as possible on the verge of zombiehood.

so yeah, i pulled that all out of my ass, and there's a lot to be improved, but that's the best way i think to pursue things - throw out stuff that may or may not be borrowed or stolen from other games and then refine, refine.  I know for a fact there's a lot of subconscious parasite eve\dragon quarter\bleach in my example, but then you make it your own by putting it in your world, with your changes.

edit - building off of that, you can have there be some sort of alternative or counterpart to the half-monster path.  some sort of inquisition that hunts down the infected.  this also gives you a good way to change the game if you do a rolling release - towns, buildings, or NPC's that need changing can be exterminated by the inquisition.  Players who are reported to flame, kill-steal, team-kill, curse, etc can be "targetted for extermination".  This gives a sense of activity and in-world fun to your administrative actions.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 07:23:47 pm by ndchristie »
A mistake is a mistake.
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The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #33 on: July 22, 2008, 06:51:49 pm
Damn I just tried going to your site and reading up on what you have done with partisan tactics.
But everything was like french.

Would you be able to explain this to me, I'm interested to know what everything means.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 07:43:19 pm by Souly »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #34 on: July 22, 2008, 07:49:44 pm
heh, i'm not actually sure about that one, but i think that it is a pathfinding map showing the order that the move from the red square to blue square is processed, with pink squares being possible paths that the system then excluded for being too long.

when i get home, if you like, there's way more going on with partisan than we've written about, especially with regards to movement across heights.  it's pretty straightforward on the outset, but then there's a lot that we've included like risk (the possibility of missing a jump, or jumping off a ledge that you know will hurt in order to cover ground quickly, etc), grip\roll (for large objects, wet objects and big falls), climbing, leaping (horizontal jump ability increased with distance from ledge), etc.

As far as attack grids in partisan, nearly everything is LOS.  Only a very few skills act outside of this, few enough to name (some artillery, some magic like lightning, some tools like grenades).

Now, i won't necessarily prescribe the partisan method.  The reason that partisan is so big on movement and sight is that it is not planned to be a game about two armies meeting in a field and going at it, it's meant to be about a few guys using more theatrical methods to overcome a few other guys.  Partisan is about fighting the way fights happen in classicly styled adbenture movies and pirate movies in particular.  Taking cover, outsmarting, and outfooting your oponent are key, and our maps are going to be tailored to this (ships, harbors, ramparts, narrow streets, etc). 

In other types of games, this would be hardboiled hell on rye.  Even in games like warhammer, where armies are only a few dozen, terrain needs to be far simpler than it is in partisan, so that the men can move properly.  Things like footing aren't even considered.  In games focussing on a very small number of people, say two or three total in a battle, complicated terrain is purely decorative, as you don't have enough men to make any use of it.  It turns into a zorro fight or a star wars duel, where there is interaction with the obstacles, but it's not at all necessary or even noticed.  You might fall into this category if you have few enemies at a time.

If your have lots of enemies though, your game could use a complicated movement system and become almost a puzzler that's all about controlling where the enemy can and can't move.  that could be really fun.

it's all about what inspires you and what strikes you.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Axolotl

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #35 on: July 23, 2008, 03:42:20 pm
Zombies??!? Nooo... Not that virus and zombie saga again.

Why was the game named Terra Online?

What are those ball-like monsters who seem to have components of different elements?

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #36 on: July 23, 2008, 05:58:25 pm
Zombies??!? Nooo... Not that virus and zombie saga again.

Why was the game named Terra Online?

What are those ball-like monsters who seem to have components of different elements?
Zombies and Virus go hand in hand.

I dunno, I was 16 when I started this project.
So were my friends.
I haven't bothered renaming it yet? :/

Elemental Wisps?

Offline Souly

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Re: Tactical RPG Grid Patterns

Reply #37 on: July 29, 2008, 07:00:08 pm
Determine who goes first - Speed (first turn only), Recover
Modifications to speed - Agility, Weight, Items, Spells
Can you hit the victim - Range, Attack vs Defense, Dexterity vs Agility, Wisdom vs Will
How much damage can you do - Range x Damage?, Dexterity, Wisdom (spells)
Modifications to damage - Weapons, Items, Spells
How can the victim reduce that damage - Armor, Agility, Will (spells)
Modification to that reduction - Weapons, Items, Spells
Is the victim dead? N - Allow them to attack, Y - Battle is over
Repeat...

Doing that gives the following stats:
Attack
Dexterity
Speed
Agility
Will
Wisdom

With items deciding:
Damage
Range
Armor
Defense
Recover

You would think with a "Huge Sword" your attack and damage go up, but your recover and defense would go down

Classes would determine your skills and help me come up with original ideas based around the class not the weapon.
I was thinking classes would specialize only certain weapon types.
Sure they can use the other weapons but they wouldn't have the skills needed to use them.
Overall I kind of want every attack to be a skill even melee, each skill has an effect it would do to the other player.
In my mind that makes for more interesting skill combos to be done.

We could even make it so you determine your own class depending on what skills you master.
This would allow for diversity.

Right now the weapons I have in mind would be like...

1-Handed Weapons
Sword
Knife
Mace
Axe
Shield
Jur

2-Handed Weapons
Sword
Axe
Maul
Shield
Guitar
Pole-arm
Wrench

1-Handed Firearm
Pistol
Crossbow
Modified shotgun

2-Handed Firearm
Rifle
Shotgun
Musket

Paraphernalia (Damge over time)
Needles
Smokers

1-Handed Explosives
Grenades
Bottles
Mines

2-Handed Explosives
Cannon
Time(turn) Bombs

The weapons stats I had in mind would be in this format for example with a 2-handed weapon and a 1-handed weapon

2-Handed Sword
Damage: +10
Range: +2 (squares)
Defense: -20
Weight: +20
Recover: -15 (seconds)

1-Handed Pistol
Damage: +5
Range: +3 (squares)
Defense: -10
Weight: +20
Recover: -5 (seconds)

And your equipment would determine...
Armor:
Defense:
Weight:
Recover:

The new turn system would then become waiting based.
You make your move and then wait with what you did being a factor of how long.