AuthorTopic: Lizardman - please critique  (Read 2629 times)

Offline fskn

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #20 on: May 24, 2021, 06:53:48 pm
So I looked at the 3d model.

If I look correctly, my whole arm is too high...
Since the colar bone are at the same level where the deltoid ends not where it starts...

Yep, exactly!

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/5787.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #21 on: May 24, 2021, 07:29:50 pm
A small anatomy note- On the forearm, I just want to clarify that Supinator Longus (Which is what Loomis calls it) and Brachioradialis + Extensor Carpi Radialis Longus are the same. It is technically two muscles but from the surface they tend to blend seamlessly together (hence why Loomis combined the two so it could be simplified).

Like fskn has shown bone is very important in drawing it goes hand in hand with the musculature. That's why I advised to look up 'origin and insertion' points for muscles but I should have mentioned to really look into the skeleton too. The clavicle is a very important bone and does infact separate the trapezius and the delt and pec. That being said since this is a creature there is some room to mess with the shapes and proportions of the anatomy (and keep in mind because of the scale, like fskn mentioned, there's only literally so much room for anatomical detail) but don't take that as an excuse to avoid putting in the extra work to make it believable. There's a huge difference between a conscious decision and avoiding something because it's harder than expected to implement.

Last thing to note here- The forearm's muscles change position depending on how the wrist/hand is rotated. You have supination (palm out facing towards your body "asking for soup") and pronation (palm away from your body). For your sprite that forearm is currently pronated, here is a picture of the forearm pronated: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Forearm_muscles_back_superficial.png/250px-Forearm_muscles_back_superficial.png

Looking better, keep it up!

Offline fskn

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #22 on: May 24, 2021, 07:36:13 pm
You have supination (palm out facing towards your body "asking for soup")...
Man, that is one hell of a mnemonic! :lol:
I was just telling myself these days how I can never differentiate between supination and pronation. Now I just might!

Offline spajjder

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #23 on: May 24, 2021, 07:44:05 pm
So.. my last entry I did update it with a new sprite - but then there were a few posts while I was edititing, so just wanted to make sure it wasn´t lost in the back in case you look at latest posts : )



I sort of tried to align the colar bone somewhat with the trap deltoid seperation.
and added a sinew going in under the deltoid from the pec. should the the deltoid go further down still? and does the pec part look strange now?

Bengo - I am trying!
I am learning a lot too :D
reading into the arm now.. looking at my own when I move my hand


edit

Made peck more prominent.. moved the entire deltoid down a step



Ps. how do I karma? I want to give you.... seriously thank you guys


« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 08:06:24 pm by spajjder »

Offline fskn

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #24 on: May 24, 2021, 08:08:51 pm
Quick-ish edit to show how I would do it, how I see it, etc.
(that's over your second to last edit, spajjder)



Not super accurate on the shading, more trying to make things more apparent and readable to you.

---

That's very Capcom-ish, isn't it? haha
Actually, it would be good for you to check out their sprites too, especially this one:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/71/74176.png?updated=1460967574

---

EDIT: Did you see the refs I posted on page 2?
https://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=66079.msg258288#msg258288

EDIT 2: NM, I think you did because you changed the leg muscle.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 08:21:03 pm by fskn »

Offline spajjder

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #25 on: May 24, 2021, 08:42:50 pm
Hello there

Did another edit



Gonna go to bed now. but thank you so much for all your help today.
hope it looks better now

Offline fskn

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #26 on: May 24, 2021, 08:54:24 pm
IMO it looks much better, yes, and definitely much better than what you started with, good job!

Let's put them side by side for comparison's sake:

« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 08:56:57 pm by fskn »

Offline bengo

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 597
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/5787.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #27 on: May 24, 2021, 10:06:45 pm
Hello there

Did another edit



Gonna go to bed now. but thank you so much for all your help today.
hope it looks better now



Much better. I've done a small edit that reduces the color count, lightens the lights and darkens the darks, made the blood look more like blood (I was under the impression that was blood otherwise I recommend removing it), given the chest piece battle scars, clarifies the forms a bit more. That chest piece would not get much light since light couldn't hit it and it'd get darker as it'd go inward more.

If the forum were still more alive I feel this could be considered on the 'featured' pixel art.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 10:08:43 pm by bengo »

Offline cels

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 365
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/32715.htm
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #28 on: May 24, 2021, 11:42:06 pm
Amazing improvement.

Nobody has said anything about this but the lighting on the farthest foot looks a bit weird to me. Am I seeing this wrong? Maybe I'm just confused about the geometry.

Offline fskn

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 195
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Lizardman - please critique

Reply #29 on: May 25, 2021, 02:19:36 am
Amazing improvement.

Nobody has said anything about this but the lighting on the farthest foot looks a bit weird to me. Am I seeing this wrong? Maybe I'm just confused about the geometry.

I'm not sure, thus why I didn't say anything, but you could be right on that.
I guess the main thing is that the front of the torso should be more in shadow like what bengo said. Then the leg would also be in shadow. The top of the foot, though, should probably be darker.

Considering the position of the light source, the torso would cast a shadow on the farthest leg, but not necessarily on the foot.