AuthorTopic: Portfolio Review Questions  (Read 11814 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 09:28:12 pm
junkboy, I read your advice as if a dancing cowboy is telling it and it just adds to it a lot.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 01:38:21 am
It's not about money, or authority, or being taken seriously, it's about surrounding yourself with people who are in the same situation and are exploring at the same time you are under the focussed tutelage of someone who has demonstrated proficiency in their field.  That's what all of college is.  There isn't another place where so many people come together in such a way (except maybe the gallery scene).  I still stand by my opinion that real life is the only place where anything of the greatest value occurs; the internet is a wonderful place to get help and meet people and have a good time, but it's still, no matter what anybody does, imaginary.

When it comes to professors authority, any student who doesn't question their teacher at every turn is going to lose big.

At least in America, the only people who succeed without going to college and meeting all of the people that are there are the ones who already have important friends (or are extremely good at making them).  You go to college to see what's out there and receive help, then you either go into private business in galleries (which you can get to alone, though it's infinitely harder), or stay in academia (which you can't do without degrees).

As far as making a living, it's not the end of the process by any means, but if you aren't eating or sleeping, chances are your art is going to suffer.

I'm almost certain going into the professorship when my college career is over, and it's not for the money, and I've yet to meet anybody here who does it "because it pays".  Most people I've met became professors because they actually want to help young artists.


As far as a backed opinion, you've been to an art school, but you're attacking far more than you've experienced (a line or two aside where you admit this).  I've not come anywhere near completing school yet, but while my endorsements carry less weight than yours, I've already seen enough at RISD, CCA, and Parsons to know that your condemnations are widely misapplied.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #12 on: April 03, 2008, 02:50:27 am
I don't know what goes on in the US. I am from Greece, I'm talking about the situation here. Obviously this might not be as useful as you and the US so anyone reading this discussion should keep that in mind. Here be a bit backwards, there be -apparently- much better. Also here be cheaper, there be ridiculously expensive so I guess that evens out as well.

it's about surrounding yourself with people who are in the same situation and are exploring at the same time you are under the focussed tutelage of someone who has demonstrated proficiency in their field.

Yeah that's all great.

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I still stand by my opinion that real life is the only place where anything of the greatest value occurs; the internet is a wonderful place to get help and meet people and have a good time, but it's still, no matter what anybody does, imaginary.

Greatest value? Well each to their own as far as categorizing values goes. But I don't understand how the internet is imaginary because there's no physicality to the critique process. I've met many, many people from the internet in real life, I go to trips with them, generally my real life and internet life are blurred. I don't treat critique any less seriously if it comes from an internet source and in fact, I am much more careful what I write when on the internet because it's a public platform for communication. Great things have happened for me online, generally. I'm sorry to hear that for you it's imaginary, but on the other hand I'm glad you're taking art school in stride and dynamically and putting your focus there, as you should in this period of your life.

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When it comes to professors authority, any student who doesn't question their teacher at every turn is going to lose big.

Look, it's not about this Dead Poet Society type of thing you're discussing. I'm not talking about being taken seriously and/or questioning authority in this wonderful world of academics and high art where you can stand to gain at every turn blah blah blah. I am saying that regardless how testy or pernicious or deep a relationship with an art teacher is, at the end of the day he is getting your money to teach you art. This always creates a certain dynamic between customer and provider and whereas higher ethics are welcome on the part of the provider, it should be realized that a provider he is. I am saying this because it's a lot, a lot different from coming on the internet and getting good critique out of the good will of strangers. You say it's imaginary, what's going on here. I say it's a freakin' miracle. There'll always be professional teachers providing for those that can afford it. I could afford it, you can afford it. A lot of people here cannot and yet they learn and progress out of a sense of belonging to a community on the internet which you strike off as imaginary. I've bettered my art at the critique of Ptoing much more than I did from the services of a teacher that got thousands of euros from me on the whole. This just blows my mind.

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At least in America, the only people who succeed

I don't know the first thing about any of this, I'll take you at your word. Most professional artists in Europe have had at best, fringe connections to the academic world. At least in the fields I follow (mostly sequential art) people are self-taught and highly sought out for their individual talents. I don't know if that is success in America, but it is success of inner ambition, so hey, that means it's possible.

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As far as a backed opinion, you've been to an art school, but you're attacking far more than you've experienced (a line or two aside where you admit this).

I am sorry, I do not understand this statement.

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I've not come anywhere near completing school yet, but while my endorsements carry less weight than yours, I've already seen enough at RISD, CCA, and Parsons to know that your condemnations are widely misapplied.

Fair enough. A discussion such as this is surely to the benefit of the reader interested in applying to art school.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 12:11:52 pm
it should be realized that a provider he is.

You're right, that is the inescapable nature of the professor, which remains there when you strip away all of the human qualities of the post.  I just needed to point out that it's not as simple as that for most people, largely because being a professor is not a cushy job anymore (tenure no longer exists for all but the most well-liked), and the pay is mediocre.

I don't treat critique any less seriously if it comes from an internet source
No, not less seriously, in the context of what can but critiqued on the internet (formal, progressional, and conceptual).  But there is so much more to a piece of art than just the projected image (again, formally, progressionally, conceptually) - and the screen just can't convey this.

I've met many, many people from the internet in real life, I go to trips with them
That's exactly the point though - living is what happens away from the screen.  whether you met them online or another way, there's no sense of really knowing someone unless they overlap at least slightly with out physical existence.

I've bettered my art at the critique of Ptoing
Yes, we all have.  Many people here, particularly those who frequent but also those who speak well but seldom, have offered a lot of things.  To say that pixelation has contributed to my artistic growth more than some professors would not at all be off the mark.  Still, there's a ceiling.


the line that's awkwardly worded just means that most of your statements encompass the world instead of Greece, with only a few to the contrary.


I think we understand each other for the most part, and I agree that - while our opinions differ - it's important for everyone to hear everything, particularly those who might be interested in schooling.  I wouldn't have wanted you to go to school having only heard my opinion any more than I would have wanted to go myself having only heard yours.  Yin and yang ftw.
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Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 01:19:36 pm
At least in America, the only people who succeed without going to college and meeting all of the people that are there are the ones who already have important friends (or are extremely good at making them).  You go to college to see what's out there and receive help, then you either go into private business in galleries (which you can get to alone, though it's infinitely harder), or stay in academia (which you can't do without degrees)/

I think this depends on what you want to do. If you want people to pay you to paint whatever you want, then yes, you need connections. If you want to become a successful commercial artist then you need to be good at what you do. For me personally I would be ecstatic to have my work in a gallery someday, but for now I'm okay with being "commercial" or "selling out" because I can make a good living and it's something I'm good at.

My frustrations with school stemmed mostly from the fact that I couldn't go to a huge art college (no money) and the art department at my local state school was filled with slackers who cared nothing for the craft, they just thought art would be easy, and the professors, although they taught with conviction, were there mostly because they couldn't find work anywhere else.

If someone can go to a good art school with a scholarship, then they should. I think it's worth taking a couple years off. Reality is, it doesn't happen for everyone and fortunately for those of us who don't get that kind of deal, it's still very possible to get a good job. Either way, if you want to be successful as an artist you have want to be the best. One thing I have learned from my limited experience in the industry is that you need Ash Ketchum-like determination. There's no way around that.
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 07:05:01 pm
If someone can go to a good art school with a scholarship, then they should. I think it's worth taking a couple years off. Reality is, it doesn't happen for everyone and fortunately for those of us who don't get that kind of deal, it's still very possible to get a good job. Either way, if you want to be successful as an artist you have want to be the best. One thing I have learned from my limited experience in the industry is that you need Ash Ketchum-like determination. There's no way around that.

Yes, I shouldn't negate personal financial status because, despite the fact that both my families barely scrape by in the "lower class, higher hopes" method with my mother about to lose her house, my grandfather's will and generous scholarships allow me to attend a very good school (currently my investment portfolio is maturing at a rate just perhaps four or five thousand dollars annually more than what I'm spending).  And yes, you can do very well for yourself without going to school and grabbing life by the horns, it's just much harder.
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Offline Terley

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 04:37:36 am
I don't know how Universities in the UK compare to this artschool, but in my personal opinion I wouldn't get too worried about it. If you know you're talented, and or you have a lot of passion for what you do, with the right grades you can get into to anywhere with a solid portfolio.

I worked my butt off trying to perfect my portfolio, some days I was petrified that I wouldn't get in, seeing most the stuff I see on the internet and the amount of quailty work you lot seem to churn out so easily I assumed thats what I'm up against. I thought, crap im not that good. But surprisingly I sailed onto the course unconditionally, with one of the best portfolio's they've ever seen, plus the general interview went really well. I was totally overwhelmed, and since being on this course everything to me has seemed so easy, yet everyone else seems to be struggling. Honestly, seeing the quality of most people work in my course you wonder how any of them got into university. Im starting to think maybe it's getting too easy to get in.

Well bit off topic but, I don't think you should be too worried. Art school's just another road to getting a job, you still have to walk it.


Yea I agree It'd be much harder If instead I took the hard way of becoming an animator for example, studied in my own time, took up freelance work, applied for small jobs and work my way up the career ladder but If I was put into any scenario, any place in time, I'd still fight to become what I wanted to be. I don't think it matters where you've been, who you know or what qualifications you have, I think it's all down to you as an individual in every sense. But I do think art schools are a much easier option.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 04:48:22 am by Terley »
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 05:46:51 pm
yet everyone else seems to be struggling.

I think this is mostly an attitude thing, because everyone I know who really cares gets through easily and learns a ton even in the things that they've already done a thousand times, regardless of "natural talent," prior experience and other excuses.  Obviously this is not black and white - my friend hanna leah and I had neither of us used illustrator or any vector tool before last semester, and neither had we worked with fabrics, and while I picked up the pen tool far faster than she did, she pwned me in the sewing studio.  Still, both of us got straight 4.000's in all the classes, which supposedly is for demonstrating proficiency, without much stress at all.



Art school is like a really relaxed job, as far as getting in and staying in is concerned:
     Show up on time and hand in the work when due (anything late has to be one hundred times as good as if it were on time, if anybody even bothers with you after you blow them off).  Be attentive.  Speak up when appropriate (it looks like/shows that you know your shit).  Introduce yourself and everyone else when appropriate (it looks like/shows that you not only "know people," but that you care enough to remember who they are and what they do).  On that note, be familiar with the personal work of all your friends and professors.

DON'T USE YOUR LAPTOP DURING CLASS (not even to take notes - the teachers assume you are on youtube or worse).  Care for your tools, especially if they belong to the university (computers, easels).

Once you start looking for employment, have a website.  I'm behind on this :(.

you probably know more about all this than you think.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 09:13:45 pm
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Art school is like a really relaxed job, as far as getting in and staying in is concerned:

In Soviet Russia your job gets paid to do you!

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Portfolio Review Questions

Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 10:02:37 pm
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Art school is like a really relaxed job, as far as getting in and staying in is concerned:

In Soviet Russia your job gets paid to do you!

haha, i lol'ed for real.  seriously out loud.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.