[WIP]Danger Dinosaur Danny et Werewolf Game Mockup

[Sherman Gill]

Karate!

Lineart courtesy of Cow: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/mccow28/danger.png
Reference: http://www.androidworld.com/trex.jpg
Kinda stuck on the legs here. I also need to expand my metallic palette before I do anything more.
Thanks to AdamAtomic for some early critique.

[willfaulds]

i think this looks ace. good start on colour selection and volumes!

my one nit pick at this stage would be the robotic nature of the legs. not the concept of robot legs but the functionality. i think its important that they are believable and look like they would/could move.

i've made 2 edits simplifying the technology in a way that illustrates my point (i hope).

i'm not saying use simple axels and joints. its doesn't need to be a technology that actually exists as long as it looks plausible (but this usually means basing it in some way on something that does exist). i hope that makes sense 



of particular concern is the fact that the front leg appears bolted to his torso without a moveable joint - it would then only bend at the knee which unless its an unusual leg doesn't make for good movement.

[Sherman Gill]

  That is like... exactly what I wanted. Mucho gracias pofavor, Will.

[Sherman Gill]

This is an appropriate situation to double post, yeh?

Back leg is WIP.
Hehe... I'm kinda deviating a lot from the line art.

[tocky]

legs look mad, now, but he's kind of off balance, and anyway would lose balance really easily, so maybe could do with some big chunky feet, or something?

[Sherman Gill]

These mechanical bits are annoying the crap out of me. SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THEN ORGANICS!

[Cow]

I'm loving this so far, especially what you did with the nearest leg. I think the furthest one is foreshortened too much, I'm sure it was intentional, but it seems somewhat excessive. Also, it doesn't seem as if it would connect with the same area as the nearest leg does. Moving it a few pixels to the left might work.

 

[JonathanOfDrain]

Danny needs his arm needs work on.
hope this helps.
I understand you're following the line art but a little change here and there would hurt. Of course you don't even need to follow any references because there is no TRUE image of a T-rex only educated guesses as to what they'd look like.

[Faktablad]

My advice is that you don't really need dithering in the mouth.  There's no real texture there, nor is there a smooth transition between two like colors, so it's not required.  Also, don't forget to AA the organic part!

[Sherman Gill]

Oh man. We found out what was causing the internet here to break for fifteen minutes after about a minute of working! 
\
Done before reading the last two posts, so no changes based on those incorporated there. Also, hehe, the arms in mine are actually a lot different from the linearts . Personally, I'll like 'em, but I'll try making more real ones, to see how it looks .
For now: I'm really unsure about the end of the tail, how's it look to you guys?

[Shrike]

 

Wow. You obviously know what your doing, so only a few nit picks.

I think the feet are too small, general chunking up would help a lot.

Also. the pink in his skin is bugging me, maybe do something about that.

And the tail? i would abandon the little balley thing.

Can't say enough positive things about the rest, though.

[Sherman Gill]

Still working on Dinosaur Danny, but I've been Alternating between that and this as my interest wanes in one for a few days now (It's definitely kept my motivation up. I've done about three times as much work as I normally would have in this amount of time)

The tileset... well, what I have (Besides the mechanical traps. those are temporary.) is considered complete, but it's missing about 5-10 or so needed tiles and transitions
Right now I'm mainly looking for crits on the woman. (I think I vucked up her left (our right) leg)

Oops! Almost forgot: Face was made after 15 minutes of staring at art by Ben2theEdge, so, uh, gracias to him?

[tocky]

  eyelids, eyebrows? gender is kind of ambiguous.

[Sherman Gill]

I dunno, she was supposed to be pretty masculine. But, the hair and chest don't make it clear, huh?

[tocky]

Well, a masculine body with long hair and boobs still looks more or less like a man. But I don't know what is the best way to portray a masculine woman, otherwise.

[Sherman Gill]

Bigger hips - Lots of changes - Old

Edit: Thanks to TIGirc for critiques and helping me make this like, 40 bajillion times better over the last 20 minutes.

[Ben2theEdge]

It's not just anatomy but also body language that communicates gender. Your character has a very masculine pose - shoulders forward, elbows out, feet spread apart, like she's about to absorb the shock of being hit by a runaway locomotive. Girls tend to stand with their shoulders back (like in your middle version), and their elbows in, also with their feet close together; when their feet are apart they tend to push their hips to one side and put the weight of their body on one foot.

Observe the difference between Superman and Wonder Woman; two similar characters except one's a guy and the other's a girl:

[Feron]

little edit, hope its some use 

[thedaemon]

You could either, make her look feminine and give her a manly pose, or make her look manly and giver her a feminine pose. That's a way to convey her strength.

[ndchristie]

i find it impossible to see any one of these as anything but a twink.

ben's post is a great one to follow: pay especially close attention to the widths of shoulders, hips, distance between knees, etc.  the bust does not need to be increased imo, and i don't actually see that as solving any issues.

I've noticed the female's are more readable when their neck area is less cluttered. Consider experimenting with dropping the shoulders

[Sherman Gill]

One frame is all the middle one of the last image (Actually, seems slight change on the neck is there), the other is
portruding hip and different shoulders! - No leggings and longer dress - alternate (our) right leg leg.
Better? Do I need to totally change the neck and shoulders or something?
I want her left leg to be holding most of the weight.

Alsos,
Feron: Thanks, but I think yours actually looks more manly than mine .
Ben2theEdge und Adarias: Mucho gracias, both of you . Although- and I know you're not saying I should really strive to make her like Wonder Woman -I feel that both of those are really crappy, super-polarized stylizations of their respective genders.

[ndchristie]

Ben2theEdge und Adarias: Mucho gracias, both of you . Although- and I know you're not saying I should really strive to make her like Wonder Woman -I feel that both of those are really crappy, super-polarized stylizations of their respective genders.

You don't need to make her look like wonder-woman, but standing like her wouldn't hurt you.  newest edit is imo barely an improvement....and the dress is not the way to go at all.  Shoulders need to come way in and the legs just shouldn't be so far apart.

Better? Do I need to totally change the neck and shoulders or something?

absolutely.


something like this might be the first step on a long road to a cute, boyish chick:


where is arne when you need him? he can always pull off character poses pretty nicely.

[Sherman Gill]

Dunno about this one.
My collaborator for the game asked if she could have longer hair, so that was rather quickly tacked on.
Redrew pretty much everything but the head and the arms.
I kinda like the shoulder level ring of highlights around yours, Adarias... I must remember to try and emulate it .

[Feron]

Why arent you using the skin tones from the face on her hands?

[ndchristie]

latest is definitely a step or six in the right direction.

[Ben2theEdge]

Massive improvements, Sherman! It's lookin' really good!

I think you can still push it a little further though; here's my attempt


I changed her pose a little more... maybe I made her a little too slutty but I also made some adjustments to her face; I made her nose a little smaller, made the shading on her cheek a little softer, and gave her eyelashes - something I didn't pick up on before but noticed was absent while I was editting.

[Sherman Gill]

Back to the short hair!
Final?
Ben's edit has made me unsure of whether or not I want both of the hands on the hips...
Feron: That's because her hands are actually covered. It isn't really logical, but, well, you know, I like it and all.

Thanks, guys.

[#36005A]

I think there's something very wrong with the eyes that I can't exactly pinpoint, but the issue is addressed very well in Ben2theEdge's edit and I think you should go in that direction.

[Sherman Gill]

Mm, I dunno, I'm really not much a fan of the super dark eyelids, and my attempts at something inbetween have for the most part been unnoticable or ugly.

[Sherman Gill]

Walk cycle time

Oof. I think I fucked up the red arm.
Actually, I think I fucked up both arms.

[Xion]

Needs more shoulder and hip rotation.
The arm timing seems a bit off. Yeah, especially the red.
The legs seem kind of choppy. Nor really pendulum-like, with the fastest parts at the depth of the swing.
The upper thigh needs more movement. For a second it seems 'bout still.

[Sherman Gill]

Made non-transparent so it's easier to see the blue parts.
Better?

[Xion]

Yeah, legs 're much better, but the red arm's timing is still whack.
I'd edit but I can't.

[Sherman Gill]

Almost forgot to post this!
Thanks to AdamAtomic for helping me with this.
Just need to tweak the deformation of the arm a little then I'll start blocking in the colors, but in the meantime, I cannot use my tablet so argh fuck.

[Sherman Gill]

Appendages aren't quite done (Lacking in shading and details.), but I'm done working on it for the day .

Mainly I'm interested in knowing if the movement of the dress with the hips is 'working'.

[Lazycow]

Hi Sherman,

here's a quick&dirty "reality-check". I was not sure what movement type you intended, so I tried the easiest one. Did you have anything in mind? The girl is moving unaccellerated with 4x2 pixels in a direction on each animation frame. In slowmo-mode you see the girl "hovering" over the ground. While this would be a problem on a slow walking-animation, I think this could maybe not bother anyone at full running speed.

Keep up the good work!
CU Lazycow

[Sherman Gill]

Oh! Lazycow. Hello .
Looks like you got everything up and running, huh? Not sure what you mean "reality check", but that's not too important is it?
The first animation is good (Though having context makes me realize how fucked up that back arm's movement still is)! The frames are at pretty much the exact speed they should be. It might be better if she moved slightly faster, like an extra pixel per frame at that framerate for the animation. Of course, though, since the wolf form will be moving faster, that change might be too fast for human form.

Also, we need to decide something on the tiles. Either the character (We still need a name for her now that I think about it ) moves behind the foreground objects (little rocks and stuff) or I should make the surface more clear. (Or I guess we could leave it this way but something about it just seems... eh)
I'm neutral eitherway, so I leave this choice up to you. Of course, take note the caves have a lot of little bumps compared to say the castle or even the outside.

Also, in regards to animations and power ups (I might have addressed this before?):
Wolf form should be easier to animate since there are less 'rules' then when animating an actual human (Though that might just make it harder), so I could probably get stuff there done fairly easily and quickly.
I'll be better able to estimate just how much I could do after the basics.


I just now noticed: When she's not moving in the animations, the back pixel of her hair is cut off.

Also... maybe this reply should have been in the form of a PM instead of a thread reply...

With much love,
  Lorne

[Alevice]

Oh man. We found out what was causing the internet here to break for fifteen minutes after about a minute of working! 
\
Done before reading the last two posts, so no changes based on those incorporated there. Also, hehe, the arms in mine are actually a lot different from the linearts . Personally, I'll like 'em, but I'll try making more real ones, to see how it looks .
For now: I'm really unsure about the end of the tail, how's it look to you guys?

Great work on the dinosaur, I have seen it as your avatar at tigersauce. I still have a few comments about what i don't like on the current iteration: the legs. Those metallic legs not only follow an slightly different perspective from the dinosaur, I feel that the size and pose of them wouldn't hold/balance the weight of the dinosaur quite well, and that there is nothing that describes how the mettalic leg is attached. Below is an subtle edit somewhat addressing those issues I perceive on it:



I made the "frontal face" of the legs broader, the angle of the knee bending somewhat more pronunciated (I would guess a t-rex would "crouch" a little and stretch the neck when performing a sort of warcry), as well as slightly more rounded the sides; the perspective on them is still off . I also added a stitched plate on the hips/waist that would probably hold the interface between circuitry and neurons.

I hope it is somewhat helpful my comment.

Again, great work.

[Sherman Gill]

Update to Werewolf game! (Guess there's not likely going to be one for Danny anytime soon. )
First off, werewolf form: It was a total bitch getting it to this point .

and then a WIP mockup, which is much more complete and better stylistically then the last one.

Mainly looking for criticism on the treeees. Obviously the grey parts and actual leafy parts are WIP.
Not sure which color scheme is better. Leaning towards the green.
Also, grass uses colors from Arne's 16 color palette, mostly because it's my default palette in GG .

[Xion]

the werewolf still looks wonky, man. It looks like a huge portion of his torso is completely missing. And even with the intentionally disproportionate characters, the wolf seems unintentionally disproportionate in proportion to the intended disproportion. It's got no neck.

I made a very rough edit for you:


The mockup is looking good though.

I'd say go with the latter if it's a heavily wooded area, the former if it's sort of a sunny-ish glade-ish place or something.
The tree looks cool in the middle but on the bottom and top where the bark-tendrils sort of just taper away into shadow with no real reason seems a bit strange. The top could work if you intend on covering it with leaves, but the bottom is just really bugging me...
K, I think that's about it.

Geez, it's been for ever since I've posted here, hasn't it?

[Arne]

Sorry for the reduced colors, I'm being sloppy.

In her animation, the hip seem to be at the skirtline, which makes her look like a 'longcat' running around. Worked for Link in WindWaker though... anyways, I think since she has a skirt it would be better if she showed her panties more uh I mean that it animated along with the legs so it feels like a dynamic piece of cloth. Right now it feels more like a swimsuit when she's running.

(and I still have to work on my poses)

[yosh64]

hey

Going back to the dinosaur, I think the leg looks like it is turned much to far inwards and looks odd to me.

I think Alevice's edit makes it look turned even more, and I don't think Arne's edit suits the upper body nor do they look like dinosaur hips/legs or something to me.

Hmm, I think you should just stick to the originals but change the perspective so they go in the same line/direction as the dinosaur. I also think you need to think about the functionality of the legs, as I don't see how they would even function in their current state. I think the legs in Arne's edit look far more functional, but they just don't look like those of such a dinosaur.

edit

Here is a quick edit I done to try to fix the perspective, although they don't look very functional. Anyhows I'm no expert on perspective, and have only done what I think looks more correct.

cyas

[Lazycow]

I like this one... (whatever it is) And it should twinkle!  (SCNR)

[Elk]

the character design reminds me alot of project wiki from webzen XD

but really cute and nice =)!

[Willows]

I believe all the freakiness of the animation can be blamed on the angle at which the character is running. She's running out of the screen, which is probably usual for platformer sprites, but it's either too much or... done wrong?

Can't put my finger on how, made an edit and might as well post it.



Yep. The most notable thing I did was change the angle at which she's running... which murders most of the work you've done

Here's your original, for comparison's sake:

[Anything!]

I think I made her look too old or something for you, but hey-- take from this what you will. :3

I tried to make her look more mature, aloof-- something that supercool male main characters tend to have, to make her seem like a dominant type of person, maybe even feral? I dunno-- I do hope you take my suggestion for the hair, though. v: Shape looks more natural.

Edit

So, from what I can assume from the game idea, is that the girl/woman can transform into a werewolf.

To fit said role, I usually think that the character would have a bit of a 'wild' look upon them, maybe even a 'canine' look upon them. But I found that I liked her 'clean-cut' look so much, that I simply went along with the style and decided to simply modify her physical features.

 I like those independent-I-can-do-it-without-yer-help type of gals. X3 So I thought perhaps only one hand on her hip, to show a bit of 'tood, seemed something to explore...?    Also, most of the males I've met have that mindset, to want to do things on their own. Perhaps the masculinity could come off through her attitude?

 I'm not too sure about that, but about her eyes... I tried to make them alike to her canine alter-ego. She definitely lost a bit of cuteness there, but I thought it looked good.. @____@

But I thought maybe the hair would be nice to follow up on. It would be quite the contrast to be /that/ cleaned-up, while having a beast form. It does look a little more natural. XD

Well, I tried explaining. I still can't explain myself well... 

Edit(2):

Just realized that the position I did could either mean she's got one hand on her hip, or both hands at her hip at an angle.... owell. XD

-- and hey, just asking, but were you planning to do idle animations?

[Ryumaru]

Seems like everybody else have things covered for you in terms of crits, so iid just like to say I like the aesthetic of the mockup so far, very pleasing style.

[Sherman Gill]

Time for update!

Small update on the run: Her left arm is farther back and her thigh shows . Tried to incorporate criticism with minimal work.
Actually, there's more then that, but I never uploaded the second newest version which was made like, months ago.

Update on werewolf based on Xion's critique.

Couldn't get a 'twinkle' to look right so I just made it jiggle


Thanks to Xion again for critique on the trees (haven't implemented some of the stuff he talked about on IRC)

And now onto talking:

Ryumaru and Elk:
Thanks, both of ya'll!

Anything!:
I'm happy with the hair, personally, and the Princess Leia hair doesn't do much for me so I don't plan on changing it. If anything does happen to it, it will probably be getting longer.
On the pose though, I dunno, I guess I'll try changing it. At the very least, that one or two pixel change on the hand you did makes it look a lot better.
Eyes: Again, I prefer mine.
Idle Animation: Unsure. Probably won't be for the character, but since I already made one for the jelly cricket... I dunno.

Arne:
Not sure if you were actually being serious, but I tried to incorporate the run animation criticism, hence the thigh now showing now.

[Anything!]

Princess Leia... hair? XD

Sure, jus' trying to help. :3

The... werewolf looks like he's doing some kind of dancing. You know, sliding along the ground, all Thriller-like. I'm not too sure how to describe it, but...

[sharprm]

Run animation - maybe should have torso or head rotate. Currently, each leg and arm seems to be on a plane thats on a different angle to each other. Like her left leg seems to be on a plane thats rotated say 30 degrees from centre.

Is her body too tall for her legs?

edit: btw, really like the mockup. Great that u have made background stand out from foreground, and characters stand out from both. 

[Sherman Gill]

I think the trees are done, unless anyone has anything to say about them.
Not sure if I need more detail in the far background though
Once I'm done with the water I guess this will be finished?

[Xion]

What? You're not going to shade the treetops proper?

Not sure if I need more detail in the far background though 

yeah. The whole thing looks way flat.

[Ben2theEdge]

Your details are good but as a whole the scene clashes. These elements don't look like they exist in the same world but rather were cut-and-pasted together from different images. The trees and the grass look like they are under a blazing hot sun, but the leaves and the dark background (and dark foreground under the grass) imply a deep moody forest. I made a very sloppy edit:



I darkened the trees and tinted them a little green, and added shadows (it took like 30 seconds, but I used "dirty" tools - a semi-transparent layer)
Did the same thing for the ground, and I added some shadows to the cave-ish area to give it depth. Didn't touch the leaves since I assume they're WIP, but those are in serious need of some volume as well. However, I want to show you something else as well:


Old --> Color adjusted
This is without any added shadows, but still with the colors adjusted - notice how much a difference volume and saturation make! Now, I think you still need to add shadows. But I wanted to show you the importance of that final step: color adjustment.

Can't wait to see more!

[Sherman Gill]

That's what I get for trying to declare something done
Thanks guys!

[Sherman Gill]

->
I feel awesome, looking at them side by side.
Water is still temporary and I think the speckle highlights on the leaves need to be massively adjusted/remade.
There's gonna be further layers of backgrounds, though I'm not entirely sure how I'm gonna accomplish that at the moment. Would things get darker or lighter far off?

Thanks for prodding and poking, guys, I have a habit of declaring things done just because I'm lazy and tired.

[Feron]

Would things get darker or lighter far off?

could go either way, i'd suggest darker, it will give more of an atmosphere.  A good tip is to make the background a lot more destaturated as it gets further away.

The revamped tree trunks look stunning, (i really mean that!), but the leaves look sooo cheap on top of them.  Why not try doing individual leaves, yes its takes ages, but will be worth it in the end.

for example :

[Pesty]

Hello, I just have a very small suggestion edit on your adventure girl's eyes (and a small change to her lips):



It changes her expression a bit, which might not be what you want, but I did the edit just to see how it'd look and I figured it couldn't hurt to share.

[Ben2theEdge]

There's gonna be further layers of backgrounds, though I'm not entirely sure how I'm gonna accomplish that at the moment. Would things get darker or lighter far off? ??

Believe it or not the original 1933 version of King Kong is a perfect example of how to create a readable atmospheric environment. This movie was the equivelent of modern "green screen" movies; most of the scenery was created with elaborate layers of matte paintings and then projected onto a giant screen that the actors and stop-motion puppets performed in front of. Since they built this world from the ground up, they were able to make it read very well in black and white:




The technique they use exists in real-life but they exaggerated it to make things extra-readable. The foreground is dark, nearly to the point of being a sillohuette, and the background is almost completely washed out. This technique is so incredibly effective that 70+ years later when they remade the movie, they mimicked the exact same technique:




It's actually not something these filmmakers invented; painters have been doing it for ages but I think the original 1933 King Kong is an exemplary case of this effect in motion. Hope this helps with your environment creating!

[Sherman Gill]

Style test. Not sure if the uhh... anti-buffer for the grass-background is working well, and I'm afraid it doesn't look as deep in the forest as it did before .

I also left my USB stick elsewhere so either I redo 4 hours of work or I wait to potentially get it back in 6 days  .
Edit: Impro-ved!

[Sherman Gill]

Hmm, I took a break from this to do a different project, then I took a hour or two break from that to work on this again. Fun .
->
So, obviously, there's a clash of style between the background and foreground, but I have no idea how I'm gonna make that better. What do you guys think?

[Opacus]

Hmm, I took a break from this to do a different project, then I took a hour or two break from that to work on this again. Fun .
->
So, obviously, there's a clash of style between the background and foreground, but I have no idea how I'm gonna make that better. What do you guys think?

I think it's mainly because the background trees actually show more depth and detail then the foreground trees.
The foreground just needs far more details, more volume, and more contrast.
I'd make an edit if I weren't so tired.
Maybe tomorrow.
This is coming along real nice tho

[Souly]

Why is the background brighter then the foreground?

[Sherman Gill]

Why is the background brighter then the foreground?

<3 Purdy colors.
Also, Cuz' I was looking at King Kong screencaps when I was making it

[zeid]

>>>
  I mucked around with the colours a bit, I think the high saturation and brightness of colours detracts from the foreground too much in your piece. If you reduce this and add more blue hues it will look more like a forest canopy.

Also, this is what I gathered the king king style implied:

Firstly you need the background looking washed out this means it needs to be bright and low saturation. Then you need to increase the shadows darkness on the upper layer so that they stand out more.

[HughSpectrum]

Even with the darkened and desaturated background, I just can't UNSEE the fact that the tree tops are huge slabs of flatness after it was pointed, especially because the tree bases are so prominent in the picture.

That is me, though.  It may supposed to look like that.

[zeid]

Even with the darkened and desaturated background, I just can't UNSEE the fact that the tree tops are huge slabs of flatness after it was pointed, especially because the tree bases are so prominent in the picture.

That is me, though.  It may supposed to look like that.

I agree more detail and better shadding for the leaves is required. However I really only think the foreground tree tops needs any significant detail. Too much detail in the background will just be distracting, not to mention time consuming.

[Souly]

Personally I think you gotta try and spice up the grass a bit.
The background is making the foreground look quite bare and looks like less work was put into it.
I like how you've done the building, I just think the grass could do with some more work to it.
Perhaps some actual long blades?
Seems like a lawnmower got it's blades on this forest not too long ago.

As for the tree tops, perhaps just add some dark green as shaded leaves.

[Helm]

--

main character edit attack! Building on pesty's edit! Eyes! She's cockeyed! You're using too many single pixels that noise the forms up!

[Sherman Gill]

One question: What are the blue lines above the uh, stockings?

[infinity+1]

i'm guessing pants.

[Helm]

I don't know! Do you expect everything I do to make sense?! 

[tehwexxl0rz]

Edit! I might have gotten kinda carried away....