AuthorTopic: Challenges and helpful editing  (Read 12790 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Challenges and helpful editing

Reply #30 on: January 15, 2008, 03:21:59 pm
Do you remember how fustrating it was first trying to pixel?

The first thing I posted on Pixelation was a fighter sprite that was inspired by a sprite made by stoven which I had found on the boards at the time. I posted to get critique and said I'm not certain whose sprite the inspirational one was but it was inspiring enough to try my hand blah blah blah and I got one reply only, by some dude who said 'the artist you're ripping off is St0ven'.

Just so we all have some perspective of where this community started as far as manners and critique goes, and where it stands today.

"Warning! This website contains Helm, who is able to give you great criticism but has a habit of feeding on human flesh"

Wink aside, I don't remember ever being rude to a person I was trying to help. I am direct, but that's a character trait that doesn't stem from my ego or insecurities, it stems from a whole point of view about life which I don't really have to explain and can only hope carries through in some capacity for the people that know me.

The scene always had it's cave-ins, most notably lousy public taste (naked chicks and dragons, anyone?)

The reason these things rose to prominence is because art was being presented in the context of competitions, and was not even scrutinised for a long time. You got a picture up in the big screen and people would vote. This is shit, this isn't a process of appreciating art. Of course teenagers with lots of free time but no real drawing skill of their own would end up COPYING boobs and dragons because that's what teenagers think will get votes on the big screen. And they did. This is the artistic downfall of the demoscene. Aesthetic bankruptcy. Nobody credited who they copied, because who cares when you're on the big screen. Lented strength, people thinking they're awesome, everybody telling them they're awesome when they know deep inside they don't even know how to draw. Do you know Lazur? Check out some of his 'no copy' work, 15 years after the demoscene heyday to see if he's learned how to draw yet. He hasn't. This is a very peculiar situation, an artistic disease and it taught me a very important thing:

competition has no place in one's inner quest to become the artist they want to be.

but this is probably true with any community that encompasses a large enough crowd. Even on PJ, where all the members are supposed to be artists, there is more appreciation for flashiness than originality.

As soon as you put little buttons with 'rating' under images... you cultivate this sort of aesthetic disinterest.

I noticed before that in contemporary pixelling circles, there is a tendency to reference the demo scene in a negative context

You should know that the reason Pixelation is aware of the demoscene more or less right now is because Ptoing, myself and a few others pushed for that. And we didn't do it in a negative context. You should also know that if right now index painting and pixel art are considered two things that are different it is also because we promoted knowledge on what Deluxe Paint actually does (the 'dirty' tools and such) just so the demoscene copiers would no longer have the same allure they had in the early 90's by obfuscating their methods and never explaining their processes. Do you know how demoscene art looks to a person that only has ever used MSpaint? Is it fair to not dispell that illusion? They never do! They never explain how they make their art, they want you to worship them uncritically.

I learned a lot from studying demoscene artwork. I learned that only a few of these people were actual artists with artistic considerations and aspriations. I learned that great technique doesn't equal aesthetic coherency. I learned that just because something is flashy it doesn't mean it's well made, or that it serves a good purpose. These are very valid lessons and I urge everyone to study the history of the medium (pixel art) and the history of the demoscene and make up their own minds.

Just because I am now informed in most aspects of the demoscene I have the courage to speak my mind and underline the bad aspects of it. This does not discount the little great (NO COPY) art that was made during that period, nor does it go to say that these people weren't amazing technicians, they were. I just don't like boobs n' dragons on big screens for asspats and points by one's loser friends. To quote a demo that says it best: Lame Lame Lame Boobs Lame Code Lame Lame Lame Lame.

but I must say that it pretty much shaped my tastes visually and musically, enabled me to get in touch with some great people from around the world long before internet made that a common practice, and helped me 'find my place' and set some sort of personal goals. It was immensely gratifying, and I can only those years of free-flowing creativity with the hippie revolution Cheesy
If I ever say that something is scene-ish, it is usually in a very positive context.

I do as well, as long as it's not a copy.

Also you should know, you think we disaprove of the demoscene? What do they think of us? Where are the pixelling gods now that the competitions are over? Why aren't they here helping people with their dithering and aa? What do they think of the contemporary scene? You know we had Mirage from the c64 demoscene over here and what he tried to pull was a stunt to show (as I understand it) that we worship SNK and Capcom and japanese game art unciritcally and that's all we do here? And we get the odd person every year coming to post art he made 10 years ago to get asspats in here, that's all the demoscene has use for Pixelation.

Of course you wouldn't get a positive attitude and want to help people when for 10 years the whole point of you making art was to defeat the other lamers.

Well, Sven, if your coder invents a new graphic mode, that doesn't make you a better artist, does it?
Besides, the amount of 'respect' to be won is very much comparable to respect here or on PJ and cheating to obtain it is equally pointless.

That's something Pixeljoint has to deal with. Here in Pixelation, that shit doesn't fly. We made sure of that.

So you should be talking to the PJ administration, really.

I did simplify, but I don't think that competition equals cheating.

You bet it'll mean cheating when it's a competition between teenagers for bragging rights with little to no moderation.

There is a bright side to this, tho. Back in the days, Jamon and I thought that people really drew all that shit out of their heads and we tried much harder to reach similar level of skill.

I had the same thing going. I actually learned to draw dragons and not copy Erlwood, so good for me, but still, that stuff they pulled? Lame Lame Lame Dragons Lame Boobs Lame.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:31:06 pm by Helm »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Challenges and helpful editing

Reply #31 on: January 16, 2008, 10:28:25 pm
don't particularly need reaffirmation of it's coolness

That's not what I'm talking about....

What i mean is when, after you have found a list of things that suck and you've made changes but you just don't know what you are doing and someone confirms that the steps you are taking are actually in the right direction, it's far more motivating then when you make a bunch of changes and STILL don't know if it's working or not because all you hear is crap crap crap.  That's all I mean.

Now actually don't get me wrong, I like the PJ staff, but they are a gallery site - a showoff site in many cases.  This is a critique board and the staff is far more dedicated (and capable - sorry jal) of providing even the best artists with things to work on.  Actually, around here the really good guys tend to get a lor harsher critique because they have shown an ability to handle it and improve.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 10:32:16 pm by Adarias »
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The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Cow

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Re: Challenges and helpful editing

Reply #32 on: January 17, 2008, 02:41:34 am
When you know the "crap crap crap" posts are diverted away from the thing you're tweaking, that's when you know it works. ^-^