RPG Castle Tiles

[Ted]

Ignore the characters in the mockup there.  That's the style that characters will be in, but they're obviously far from finished.

I know there's a little bit of visible tiling going on.  But I don't want to make it look too bland.

[Azgardes]

I like them. The style is nice abd seems fairly easy to recreate. I should probably get started on some tiles >>

[baccaman21]

the grass texture looks like sponge... generall the image is quite noisy... and the edges of the castle walls are extremely sharp... I guess you're trying to keep it/them within some kind of tile limitation (please detail) but still you can give them some notion of a profile instead of a single sharp edge... try pulling and pushing the edged stones in and out a bit to create some jitter along the edges...

I'd also be inclined to add a dark hue on the edges of the castle that are supposed to be projected from the floor, that way you'll make the whole structure stand up... currently it's very flat... you've got the dark color in your pallette (the windows) so use it!

oh... and clothe those little dudes I'm embarassed for them...  poor cherubs.

(EDIT)
EG:

I've gone OTT on the internal shadow on the castle roof but you get the idea...

Also, I've added additional depth to the bricks on the upper section of the roof wall just to show how to improve them too... do that across all cracks and joints and it'll improve the wall texture a great deal.

[Ted]

Oh, yeah, my bad, I forgot to mention this, but the edges of that aren't necessarily the edges of the walls.  I'll probably have towers at most of the corners or something.  But I'll mess around with that anyway, maybe add some alternate edges.

And that floor shading idea might work, I'll try it.

[baccaman21]

OK - but See edit anyway...

(400 posts! WAHOO)

[Ted]

Hm, I don't like the castle shadow.  Partly because the light source won't be the same everywhere in the game.

Also, I can't have random empty spaces, since the castle won't always be on top of grass.  So that's why it's all very rectangular.

[baccaman21]

Also, I can't have random empty spaces, since the castle won't always be on top of grass.  So that's why it's all very rectangular.

Sorry ted... I don't get what you mean by "random empty spaces"- please clarify?

Regardless of what the castle is on, be it grass, mud, stone, concrete, steel, glass, sand, concrete [I've siad that twice:P], balsa wood, whatever, it's still possible to jiggy up those vertical lines... trust me I know what I'm talking about, either through a clever use of pallettes, or, (dependant on system and how the gfx are displayed) by using layers...

Having said that - you may have limits that I'm not aware of (character counts, pallette restrictions etc) so knowing those will help to give some more specific critique...?

[Ted]

Well, I could have separate layers, I guess.  I just figured it was easier not to.  I'll try it, anyway.

EDIT:  Alright, how's this?

[baccaman21]

It's better... but i think you need to grasp the concept of depth cueing...

look out to the horizon... what do you see?

Do things get darker as they get further away? or do they get lighter?

The answer is - they get lighter and less detailed... the invers being, that things in the foreground are darker and more detailed... (generally speaking)

You can apply this on the small scale regardless of what you're drawing, be it a still life, or a landscape, the fact remains that distant object are lighter and neare objects are darker. (there's a bit more to it than this, but for the purpose of this that's all you need to know)

Now, apply this to your castle...

The darker, more detailed stuff is at floor level, and the lighter less detailed stuff is higher to the viewer... or in other words, the exact opposite of what is naturally occurring in nature...

Maybe you're still working on the piece, in which case, fair enough, but bear this in mind...

This is the reason why, I put an dark outline around the edge that's in relief from the floor, this LIFTS, the image off the background... and is a shorthand method of making your work standout...

tis up to you though... take it... or leave it...

Keep on pushing !

[ndchristie]

ah!  dont oversimplify SOO much baccaman!

as objects recede, they have a tendency to take on the color and value of the sky.  While typically this is seen as being "lighter and less detailed,"  it would be a mistake to always render it as such.  Only when the sky is pure white (i.e. never) is this the simple truth.

When the color is taken on, anything darker than the sky becomes lighter, but anything brighter than the sky becomes darker.  On a bright sunny day, harsh shadows fade and bright colors turn dull, but also snowy mountains and marble citadels become soft gray blue.

This all happens because of light passing through the air and casting color in front of your eye.  at night, the atmosphere is less lit and therefor less visible, meaning that the effect of this is lessened.  in fog, this is heightened.

like you said, there's a lot more too it, but simply lighten and lower contrast isn't enough to understand the concept.

[baccaman21]

yup agreed... but there's also the argument that be blinded by sceince may put people off... but I'm glad you've explained the details as at the time I was a little preoccupied... (as I'm sure you could imagine)

[Ted]

Well if you want to get technical, the back of the castle should appear smaller than the front, but for the sake of simplicity, I've chosen not to go that route.  So the same can be said about the landscape fading as it nears the horizon.

Besides, I doubt there would be a very noticeable difference unless there was a very large distance.  The shading I put on the bricks at the bottom just comes from the fact that the sun is on casting light from above, causing those bricks to get less light.  Although the transition is a little too blunt.  I think I'll try to make it a bit more subtle.

In other words, I could go with real physics here, but I'd rather just go with aesthetic appeal.

[Jad]

I'd say increase both lightness AND contrast as the tower grows higher, that way it'll simulate focus in a simple and effectful way :O

[baccaman21]

Well if you want to get technical, the back of the castle should appear smaller than the front, but for the sake of simplicity, I've chosen not to go that route.  So the same can be said about the landscape fading as it nears the horizon.

no, the point I'm making still stands... you're taking me far too literally... and, as I said in my original post regarding this I said...

"You can apply this on the small scale regardless of what you're drawing, be it a still life*, or a landscape, the fact remains that distant object are lighter and nearer objects are darker"

Perhaps I should make myself clearer about this notion, the point is to push things in and out of a page, or a screen, you apply the concept of depth cueing, or increase/decrease of tone/saturation/contrast...

Additionally, I'm well aware that to keep things simple it makes sense to not put things into perspective when dealing with tiles and limitations.

PS. you've still not said what format you're doing this for... is it for anything or is it for pleasure? (I just got the impression it was FOR some project or other)

*i.e. A bowl of fruit or a vase of flowers.

[ndchristie]

videogame art is all about exaggerating some aspects to make up for the lack of others.  you aren't going to put perspective lines into a square grid, so you need to explore the use of color and contrast. 

your piece has crazy issues with depth and "simplicity" doesn't dispel them.

your piece also has a lot of noise that confuses the issue without adding good texture.  noise without purpose is almost like saying "im not sure if this area should be light or dark, so ill make it both!"

if you take out that noise in favor of descriptive shapes and lighting, you'll have much less difficulty reading the scene.  i would recommend this first and foremost.  THEN explore what you can do with contrast, color, and detail to establish priorities.

[Ted]

Sorry I never mentioned the format.  I'm doing this for an RPG in RPG Maker XP.  So basically, my only limitation is the tile size.  That, and there can't be more than 3 layers of tiles.  (4 with events; 5, if you want to go reeeally extreme, but I don't plan on going through the trouble)

But yeah, I guess you're right about the perspective stuff.  The only reason I'm reluctant is because I really have no idea how to do it.  Could someone maybe give me a quick example?


Also, about the noise, that was supposed to be my idea of realism.  If you zoom in on a photo, you don't see many big blots of single colors.  But I guess I can rework that.  I just didn't want to make it look like tall grass, but I didn't want to make it look like a green plastic floor like in Zelda ALttP either.

[Jad]

It's a good idea, but the way you're doing it now, it creates lines in the grass that really emphasize the grid. O:

[ndchristie]

noise does not amount to realism.  noise is just amateurish.

i wouldnt be so harsh if i hadn't made dozens of crappy, noisy tiles myself.

here was the edit i began before reading your post, you can see how im simplifying the forms to make them easier to read :


if you want realism, you're going to need to add a lot more colors and get down with how to describe forms.  realism in pixel art is hard, because you need to suggest forms that you don't have the physical ability to represent.  there are ways to do it with few colors, but i haven't shown them in this edit....