AuthorTopic: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )  (Read 11453 times)

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #30 on: November 16, 2005, 10:48:38 pm
well I think it's mostly up to ppl to decide what kind of critic should be given.

if we look back on SplatPixel's works, we see he's allways been like that. he never changes anything. well hardly any. why? not cause he's so pround he wont admit errors or details. it's just that it's the way he likes it. and all in all, that was a work made for his pleasure. he's just sharing.

most finished works that are posted here are not going to be changed. some of the most... well... respected, older, professional, call it watever you like, but most of the stuff is not going to be changed. ppl do get the critics, they may even consider them, some may just get the complements, and that's fine too! it's good for motivation. I like splat's stuff, I'd say keep it up! post more. nice style, or watever i feel would keep him motivated. I don't see his post's as a "help me post" but as a "I'm a pixel artist, and I want to share this"

some threads are help requests, like Faceless's animation thread. and anyone how post's will know what kind of critique or sugestion that will give.

I think it's up to anyone to understand what is posted and why. if we can do that on our own, we don't need to "rule out" our critiques posts.

take care,

Kazuya
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline NyanNyanKoneko

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #31 on: November 16, 2005, 10:53:44 pm
I've only posted one thing to get crits, and even though I didn't feel compelled to go back and redo it, I know I keep those crits in mind while I have been working on my pixel art.

Just because someone doesn't go back and redo their work doesn't mean that the crit was useless.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #32 on: November 16, 2005, 10:55:03 pm
I think the search for original or novel artistic style, and the interpretation of works in the same direction, has pitted Camus against what he considers more 'mundane' critique of work. He tries to separate the artisan nature of pixel art in favor of a more puritannical bohemian method to appraising art.

While I agree with the point being made about giving appropriate critique, critique based on the intent of the artist cannot not be made obligatory without unpleasant consequences. Each observer of a work is confined by their own life experiences, and should not be forced to speak for what they do not hold to be true or rational. Good artwork is just like good critique: Not everyone's going to give a stellar performance the first time around, and it will take a period of time before one is able to discern what exactly constitutes an appropriate critique, or a critique based on the intent of the author for that matter.

If I went around expecting a very specific behavior from the membership all the time, I might be sorely disappointed. It's a matter of being forgiving of human nature; letting go of certain expectations and to be content with what the communal good has provided. At some level, I believe we are all in agreement on what has made this forum a success: The focus on Pixel Art.

Whether a viewer is giving their full effort and attention towards a critique is another matter. Even then, attempting to gauge their effort is not always accurate. This is usually the point at which people become irritated by the initiates of Pixel Art. Those who learn to critique gain an appreciation for the technical difficulty of the medium, and this may not be true for someone visiting the forum for the first time. So we should be appreciative of this fact, and not abrasive towards people who've yet to undergo the transformation towards appreciation. It can be harmful, from an early point, to dictate absolute terms on how somebody should critique your work, and flaber pointed out some very good principles on this subject.

Critique is a self discovering process, not just the building up or tearing down of the work of others. One can give appropriate critique; providing tips based on pixel level methodology, whilst not at all exploring the work on a symbolic/artistic/metaphoric level, and yet there would likely be a successful and APPROPRIATE exchange of information between the viewer and the artist. While insight into the intent of the artist can be refreshing, I tend to consider it icing on the cake. It's an extra measure put forth to flex the intellectual. But sometimes a sprite is just a sprite and it needs a little AA. This kind of efficiency can speed an artist along until they're ready to tackle the high brow artistic dialog.

During the Diced rant period back on Pixelation, the matter seemed to fall on deaf ears, but I will repeat the point: If it's your intent to persuade someone to a particular viewpoint, there are many ways to go about it, so consider actions and language that do not threaten or coerce. And most importantly, be productive through example. If it's your intent to explore the greater stratosphere of Pixel Art's artistic merits, Camus, feel free. Just don't disparage on the others for not being ready to meet you yet.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #33 on: November 16, 2005, 10:55:26 pm
well I think it's mostly up to ppl to decide what kind of critic should be given.

if we look back on SplatPixel's works, we see he's allways been like that. he never changes anything. well hardly any. why? not cause he's so pround he wont admit errors or details. it's just that it's the way he likes it. and all in all, that was a work made for his pleasure. he's just sharing.

Please. PLEASE don't say this in splat's place. Let him say that himself. I do not crit splat anymore, because I suspect this is the case. But don't say it FOR him. Let him come and say that he doesn't appreciate critique and that he's just showcasing, because he's that sure of himself and his art. Do not be his advocate on this.


Quote
most finished works that are posted here are not going to be changed. some of the most... well... respected, older, professional, call it watever you like, but most of the stuff is not going to be changed. ppl do get the critics, they may even consider them, some may just get the complements, and that's fine too! it's good for motivation. I like splat's stuff, I'd say keep it up! post more. nice style, or watever i feel would keep him motivated. I don't see his post's as a "help me post" but as a "I'm a pixel artist, and I want to share this"

I don't mind showcase threads too much. I just want the clearly named as such.

Quote
some threads are help requests, like Faceless's animation thread. and anyone how post's will know what kind of critique or sugestion that will give.

Yes, some threads are help requests. In fact, you should consider any thread posted that isn't clearly marked as a NON-help request thread, a help request thread. This is a critique board, with one or two showcase threads. It's not a gallery board with the occasional critique here and there. If you need the latter, dA and associates will be sure to do it for you.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 10:58:27 pm by Helm »

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #34 on: November 17, 2005, 05:28:05 am
"I agree with Kazuya really. I mean, you should've have read the description of the Pixel Art Forum in the index of pixel tropolis, it said post art for "critiques or comments". All you should know about the pixel art forum are 2 choices: You can post art for fun with the free to not read critiques. You can post art for critiques to learn from them. Of course, it's up to the artist's choice of what he/she wants it to look like. In my opinion, the critiques are just suggestions or tips to help you get better or learn pixel art. You can't just run into force a person to change the their style like make picasso go into draw anime characters. Or force make vincent vangoh into drawing mecha, but he's a classic painter. I second that you get the picture here." - by me in the old thread of Splatter's new art

 I didn't know the thread was moved so here is my judgement on the critiques. Camus, Kazuya, and I totally agree with each other's thoughts. Well just to let you know you should think critiques weren't really meant to force the artist to improve. It's only just suggestios. There shouldn't be a law on requiring the artist to change their style after they have read critiques.
 

Offline flaber

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #35 on: November 17, 2005, 05:58:01 am
who said were trying to change the artists style?
perhaps i missed something, but lately the replys near the bottom of this thread are all promoting you to critique in a few different ways and to let the artist be the one to decide which ones to listen to.

but perhaps i overread something...

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #36 on: November 17, 2005, 02:57:20 pm
meh
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 02:08:24 am by Camus »

Offline NyanNyanKoneko

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #37 on: November 17, 2005, 08:49:30 pm
woot!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 02:14:48 am by NyanNyanKoneko »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #38 on: November 18, 2005, 02:11:26 am
you're right nako......nobody needs the drama :p I replaced it with a much more condensed summary. I just needed to make that post at that moment

And, about your reply...no, I dont benefit from it :p that's what upsets me

Offline NyanNyanKoneko

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #39 on: November 18, 2005, 02:16:08 am
I thought I'd spare you some embarassment; I condenced mine as well.

If it makes you feel any better, I gained something from your post.  I began to question the roles of crituques here.