AuthorTopic: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )  (Read 10440 times)

Offline Xion

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #10 on: November 15, 2005, 01:43:08 am
Quote
you are right that i never submitted one sprite that was realistic. i like to exadurate muscles or or give a character some grivity defying hair because it looks more interesting to me. real is so boring.
I completely agree that
A. Real is boring and
B. Defying reality or straying from the norm is fun,
but only if.
A. The art is good,
B. The art is improving,
C. The art shows effort.

Oh yeah, "grivity" :lol.

Offline Alex

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #11 on: November 15, 2005, 02:13:56 am
im choosing to stay out of this shit pile.


p.s. have my fucking babies darion. *moans*
alexander

Offline SplatPixel

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #12 on: November 15, 2005, 02:29:59 am
Xion Night - lol, you know what i mean, sheesh... i'm not use to writing so much, heh i even have 2 "or" in there. see how i get without my sleep.
...

Offline Skipper

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #13 on: November 15, 2005, 02:37:18 am
I was just making a broad statement that I thought needed to be said.  I'd been holding it in for some time now.  It's true, though. 

Offline Darion

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Re: Splatter Sleeves

Reply #14 on: November 15, 2005, 03:34:10 am
Too many people on this board get pissed WAY too easily.  Seriously.

Incase this was directed to me, I'm not pissed; I'm trying to understand where all of this is coming from.
@darionmccoy

Offline flaber

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #15 on: November 15, 2005, 04:19:17 am
this is what i see critics as:
copied this from another post of mine:


1. crits are suggestions toward a piece that could help make it better.
2. they are suggestions from the perspective of a certain viewer. they do not represent everyone, they only represent one person and their views on how to improve a piece.
3. not all crits are to be used. they are meerly suggestions, that the artist can consider fixing or keep in mind for further reference.
4. there is no one that is above a crit.
5. the person giving a crit gains alittle themselves because breaking down anothers picture helps them to gain a few tricks and new knowledge.

ehh, my view

Offline MadToaster

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #16 on: November 15, 2005, 10:05:28 am
I think it's good we're putting something like this up on the table, the last thing I want this place to become is where we all go through the motions of sharing work and no one is enriched by it. I like being exposed to different opinions and views, staying in your own box is stagnation. Some of the stuff you've guys have said about what you value in cc has given me new reasons to appreciate it and maybe how to be more helpful later on when I'm writing some up.

Seriously, back when i started out on this hobby on my own in the late 90s I was making jumbly stickmen. Like everyone else I only had 24 hours in a day so there's only so many ideas you can develop on your own. When we're all here we benefit from thousands of man hours worth of studying and experimenting. I improved more in the first 3 months at pixelation than I did in the previous 3 years.  So obviously something helpful is going on here, I don't think it's so much that information is being spoon fed to us but that it gives us ideas on what things to pursue rather than stumbling around lost.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2005, 10:15:12 am by MadToaster »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Splatter Sleeves

Reply #17 on: November 16, 2005, 06:57:45 am
Its amazing how ungrateful some of you can be, to the place that got you here today.  If you want to start a forum with asspats ,and giggles, you go ahead, but don't try to change another.

Quote
Now, I'm not blaming that on Flaber or Pegwo, but I really think it's just about time we leave that behind.

And don't call me that.

gah...what the hell? Darion, you didnt even understand what I said....either that or you're just deforming it for kicks and giggles, I never suggested a forum about asspats, that's the last thing I want, I do apreciate pixelation and C&C, I just dont think that's a reason for it to not change and improve, and think of a better way to C&C.

Just now I'm realizing, much of the problem with your crit, is hell....you just said "shrink head" like it was an order, if you had atleast explained what was wrong with the big head, like you did in this post I'm replying to, then that would've probably been ok.

and...why not Pegwo? I always call everyone I know by their oldest screen name, it says more about who they are, if you know people by 2 screen names you have a better impression of them, one just shows the current image they want to display.

Helm, why are you mentioning Pixel gods all of a sudden? you know neither of us belives in that, so why are you using that all of a sudden? I feel like that is a jab at me.

Ok, I think using the term "improve the artist" was wrong, I guess that pissed you off and got you using stuff like "improve the soul" and  "pixel gods" which well...is just plain silly.

I was using that to exagerate the point of making crits that last more than one piece, that arent just....fix that corner there..you know?I think you understood what I said with an extra level of presumption, I dont think a critique should be about what Makes the artist draw something a specific way, more about the way the artist usually draws things, about the little bad habits that plague him, say...you'd rather critique "dont use robes to avoid anatomy " than " make her knees show under that robe", they might adress the same thing, but one is disposable while the other ir re-usable, with the last one the pic might look okay when fixed, but the artist might repeat the mistake, unlike with the former one.


I dont know what people in artschool do, but I honestly dont care, I dont think this is a similar system at all, so I dont see why that should matter.

Now about pixelart just being pixels, I dont agree, becuse pixelart is art, so it's not just pixel techniques all we need to discuss, we also need to learn anatomy, perspective, character design, animation techniques, and many many more things that pixelart is also a part of, you cant just go and ignore all the complex aspects that come into a picture because it's made of pixels.

Are you seriously willing to relinquish your points though? because...I know you think mods as long as acting on rules shouldnt be questioned, and you seem to always push the same idea of that this is just for pixel techniques and no more...I'm not sure..please dont take it a bad way.
 
Flaber.....I only mentioned you because this topic and that one are one in my head, now...I mentioned it to say I dont blame you for this at all, so you dont have to play victim. I seriously dont belive I dragged you into this, you draged yourself.

Alex, your post just sucks, not because you are with..whoever, but because you only posted to say you werent, and that this was shit...that's just spam, and it's a jab at all of us....hell even whoever you're with.

I guess I'm more alone in my view than what I thought, but what happens to me, is that when I've finished something, I do not think it is awesome, I already know some things are wrong, plus I almost always, if not always do certain things that generally would seem wrong on purpose, so I guess as I dont think the piece is perfect when I post, I already have an expectation for what kind of crits I'll get, and most of the times those crits I already know.

Now, I've tried to direct the crits towards what I need direction in, what I am interested in knowing how I did it wrong, but it doesnt work, I've tried it in many many ways, but people just nitpick.Now, I'm not saying that's totally useless, but only a few select people actually give useful crits, and it's usually the same...so I just figure I'd be better off hunting the people who crit well, then skip the intermediaries and asking them on a IM app.

It's also the fact that mostly C&C topics just arent progressive, most of the time it's the same mistake pointed over and over, so it doesnt really benefit from being a comunity discussion, because diferent views arent being expressed.

this is all me me me though, I probably missed how it looks like for people starting out, and well...I can see how it'd suck to not have crits, but that's not what I'm saying.

I have to say, I was not made at this place, I did enjoy a lot this space, and I've learnt a lot, but I cant say it made me. I Have improved of course, but I wasnt clueless when I came here, I already knew I'd focus on animation, and I had already done a few decent anims, not to say this place hasnt helped me, it has, and a lot.That is why I post this here, otherwise I wouldnt care to post this.

Lastly, I couldnt agree more with you MadToaster, this is a very good thing, we shouldnt just take this place for granted,we should be constantly questioning ourselves on how it should be improved ,there should always be a space specifically dedicated to this, I know ops do at mod board, but this shouldnt be reserved to ops, it should be considered a labor for all the members.

I mean look at this http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26636 we should have atleast that.

sigh, I still wanna keep writing, but....enough, it's late.

Offline flaber

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 07:30:58 am
mmhmm k, fine whatever...
this issue presses past you and me, so no need to have that..
whether i dragged myself, or you, or what, dont matter anymore to me.

anyways..
seems like we have several different views on this topic.
now, what we should / need to do, (ill let you decide) is think of a solution to this.
we have found the problem, without question.
That question being, should we stick to the way things are, basic crits on the obviouse, or should we progress ourselves to what may or may not be a better level to this. (heh, read it over several times, i may be wrong, ehh).

so
my proposal to you:

we could have a few things that may make a difference,
1) the artist in the first post can / should specify what type of critic they would like to recieve, if any: visual /techniqual /pixel misplacent, or animation, or composition, or colours, or anatomy, etc.
2) we can touch on each if the artist didnt specify.
3) tagteam... read through the rest of the posts, and then critic a different aspect that someone else didnt.. ex: i critic pixel nitpicks, someone else reads my post, and critics on composition. opposed to everyone finding different issues with the same topic, look into different things, and then after that if there is something bothering you in another area, you can specify.
4) RESPECT eachothers crits. there is nothing stupid in a crit if the person gave their time in it. let the artist decide what to pay attention to
5) make edits to help explain what  you mean --> more work, but better crits, no?
6) im probably a reason for this one... if you have a problem with a specific response by a person, try not to respond in that thread but rather take it up through PM, OT thread, or in worst case scenario a new thread like this. dont want more threads like splatpix's to get out of hand again.

now these are suggestions, these are just coming out of the top of my head.
but perhaps its a step towards figuring this out.
i hope..
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 07:37:39 am by flaber »

Offline pixelblink

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #19 on: November 16, 2005, 07:41:47 am
Holy crap... I love you guys! I love how much thought and energy you put into creating your pieces as well as the comments and feedback and arguments and whatnots. You all show alot of heart and I just wish I could give as much of a thought to writing something down as alot of you do. You don't just blow up and tell eachother to "fuck off and die", you give reaons for your actions. This is so refreshing to see.

It is almost confusing to see what is actually going on here but if I could break it down it looks like we're saying that you shouldn't comment on a persons style of art but on the technical aspects of it. Comment on the lack of dithering, a more rounder edge here or there, a different shade of colour, a different light source, etc. Commenting on an artists particular style is kind of counteractive. The artist could perhaps have no other perception of another style to create because they enjoy creating it. And isn't that what art should really be? Personally, art is for myself first and foremost.

Anyways, there will always be a fine line between helpful critisism and just plain bashing or asspatting. I think it helps more when the artist being critiqued can be honest about how they feel about a comment. Learn your community here guys n gals... there's a ton of awesome people to get to know... take the time to know them.
I don't even think this really answered anything.

Thanks for that awesome link BTW Camus :)