AuthorTopic: fighter sprite  (Read 8185 times)

Offline billybob

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fighter sprite

on: August 02, 2007, 09:56:13 pm


any crits?

Offline Ornust

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 10:02:48 pm
The arms are too short.  :D
The Newbie's Newb.

Offline Helm

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 11:10:41 pm
The arms are too short.  :D

Do not post one-liners. And the arms aren't too short as much as they are of different lengths and very malformed. I suggest ground-up anatomy studies, billybob. The head is not fixed on any coherent neck, the arms have odd segmentations that do not suggest any anatomy I understand. The hands themselves are unclear, improvised. Your character is leaning off of his center of gravity. His face is a symbolic represenation of a face (I can see eyes, nose, mouth, no ears though) whereas what you should be drawing should be actual faces from reference, not consulting your subconscious memory of what makes a face be a face. It's not a collection of symbols. It has volumes.

I like the creative use of color, the tinting in the pants. however you probably don't want to have a lightsource on the side for a fighter sprite, as when it flips, the lightsource will flip with it.

Offline LoTekK

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 11:17:28 pm
Jesus, that list of links would terrify even myself. While the pages linked are helpful in and of themselves, posting a metric fuckton of tutorial and reference links without any sort of context isn't exactly useful.

billybob:
I would suggest studying up on human anatomy. At the very least put yourself in the pose you're trying to recreate and look at yourself in the mirror. Even better would be to wear similar clothing. You should immediately see a ton of mistakes.
1. Right arm is entirely too short. The musculature on said arm is also, well, imaginary.
2. Left arm looks broken. I think it's the way the wrist bends, and possibly the low placement of the entire forearm.
3. Brave attempt on the drapery, but the folds are, as with the musculature, imaginary. Again, take a look in the mirror.
4. Ankles are non-existent, and the feet retain the same width throughout. Mirror.
5. Legs are potentially a bit too short. Typically you should be able to bring your knee roughly up to the level of your clavicle.
6. Head is attached incorrectly. It's sitting too far back on the neck. There's also too much face on there (it looks like the face stretches all the way to the rear third of the skull). That said, at least within that, the actual facial proportions are sound.

At least your lighting's relatively consistent. :p
Let's see an update.

[got instaposted by Helm]

Offline bengo

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 11:21:02 pm
Jesus, that list of links would terrify even myself. While the pages linked are helpful in and of themselves, posting a metric fuckton of tutorial and reference links without any sort of context isn't exactly useful.
Good point, I organized em a bit, hopefully that helps.

Offline Helm

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 12:27:04 am
Bengosha, stop trying so hard. It's actually a bit presumptuous to throw links to tutorials in the face of users. They might have read these tutorials for all you know. They come here to get specific human help from the users. You don't have to go to every thread and post tutorial links. In fact, it's not about what you have to do, I am asking you to not do it again unless the users are asking for tutorials specifically or if the tutorial in question answers a specific issue about the art posted that you - and noone else thus far in the thread - can clearly communicate. Simply put (and this isn't in the rules and regulations because simply we never thought anyone would not consider it common sense): Do not try to help people with your critique until you have the knowledge and knowhow to do it. Lented strength by being our little tutorial-posting bot will not endear you to anyone here.

You're trying too hard. Post less, post when you really have something to say. If you have any questions, PM me.


I will have no more comments about bengoshia or his critiquing attemps in this or any other thread on the critique board. Take it in the OT if you want. Don't gang up on people, don't crucify them. It doesn't serve anyone, least of all the artists and the critique process.

Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #7 on: August 04, 2007, 10:23:24 am
its funny because in my first version (which was alot less better than this) zeid said the head was too far forward, now its too far back :blind:, But I'll fix it anyway (but later because I have to practice keyboard)

Offline Ryan Cordel

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 02:42:02 pm
Sorry for almost nuking out your sprite, but this is my honest (But bad. :P) attempt at addressing a few anatomy issues.



Generally the position of your whole character. I have not finished the head due to my lower skills in that area. I noticed now that I have misplaced his left foot a bit. Ah well. =/

Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #9 on: August 04, 2007, 09:54:22 pm
I did what you guys said too do (I think and hope) here:

Offline zeid

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #10 on: August 05, 2007, 09:48:37 am
Quote
its funny because in my first version (which was alot less better than this) zeid said the head was too far forward, now its too far back
Quote
3. his head is not placed on his neck correctly, it should be back further, right now it looks as though it is connecting to the middle which doesnt leave room for much of a jaw and also gives a bit much of a chin to the back of his head.
Actually yes on the other forum I made a mistake in my wording but if you re-read it all then it will make sense, particularly with the edit I provided.

As you can see from the edit (though far from perfect [please ignore the pose it was a slight attempt at correcting you anatomy]) the head neck alignment is more correct then your current one. When I included the phrase "it should be back further" I was referring to the position of both the neck with the head.
I also mentioned that the jaw hadn't enough room so I am in complete agreement with LoTekK
Quote
It's sitting too far back on the neck.
>
this is your previous version compared to your current version. I wouldn't say the old version was better at all. I would say that you should ditch the details and get a nice structure first (make a silhouette) you may use different colours to represent different parts that could overlap, for instance 1 red arm, 1 blue body, 1 green arm, etc. Then we can all help you get the form and pose right in a more step by step fashion (of course whether you wish to is up to you, if anyone agrees or thinks this would be too major say so). Right now you seem very distracted by details that makes the piece look bad overall I think that this could help.
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Offline LoTekK

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 10:45:53 am
I did what you guys said too do (I think and hope)
Granted you touched a couple of points, but you missed some of the most basic and important ones.
1. Study up on some anatomy, because you still have completely made-up muscles on the right arm. The deltoid looks like a pauldron, what appears to be the triceps looks like a big flap of flesh that stretches past the elbow, etc.
2. It looks like you actually added more folds to the clothing, when it was made clear that the fold structure is completely incorrect.
3. It seems apparent that you didn't refer to zeid's rather helpful edit, since his fixes numerous issues that have already been pointed out in this thread.

I would take zeid's advice and really go back to basics. Focus on getting a solid silhouette first, so you can nail the proportions and posture, before you waste your own time futzing with details. Adding details prematurely simply tends to make you less willing to make sweeping yet necessary structural changes, due to the time you've spent on said details. Even if you're willing, why not spend that time more constructively by nailing the proportions and posture? Quickly sketching out silhouettes also has the benefit of allowing you to explore options you may not have initially thought about (different postures, etc).

Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 11:11:25 am
ok, so basically... redo it. well that will be fun, I'm keeping the old version for color referance

Offline zeid

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 02:30:23 pm
Well when you really think about it, it should be much more fun (easier and make more sense) then going over, and over the piece until you work out every single little mistake. Seeing as you have to amend so much regarding anatomy and pose you will have to remove all the details either way as you attempt to fix areas and reposition things. The only difference is doing it the way you are doing now requires you to go over it one piece at a time, which can get confusing and leads to a worse result then I'm suggesting. If your piece had a few small errors then it would be stupid going right down to the basics, but this isn't the case. At present it is actually quite hard to tell what you want the piece to look like which makes it very hard for us to critique. If you go back to a silhouette we can say how the different structures will look and should be positioned, after we say that you have the shape right you can add all the detail you want. By all means keep the colours from the old one, they aren't my primary concern I really am concerned for the anatomy and pose of the piece. Also I don't see why you would delete the old version, is your computer that low on hard drive space. ::)
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Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 04:13:47 pm
it might be a chance to make the light source from the top :P also I wont do an outline either

EDIT:


not sure but I think the pose is good

EDIT2:


I edited a couple of proportion problems, though I can figure out a way to make it so he is 7 heads high he is 6 right now
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 04:39:53 pm by billybob »

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 05:28:40 am
That's because you left out his hips entirely!

Offline zeid

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 05:56:05 am
I was just about to say that and provide a little edit.

This edit has some guide lines to help give a 3d impression I put them in last for your benefit. You may notice even though he may be wearing jeans I sketched it out as though he had none. At this stage try and get the body right, such things as clothing drapes around the body and so it is imperative that the structures underneath the clothing look correct (they don't need detail just the right shape and correct impression of depth). You also left out the feet and hands, really they will help if you get them at least in as place holders. Your previous feet had a lot of issues regarding perspective and looked a little like they should have been on someone who was flying, this may have been caused by putting them on without a guide. The chest area I tweaked a bit so it was shaped more, again this may be the clothing thing. Your silhouette gives a hunched impression from the way you have shaped the chest and over lengthened the shoulders. Your arms are to fat, the forearm should get smaller as it slopes towards the wrist and the elbow should protrude more. The shoulders need to be brought in more (as mentioned previously). My edit is by no means all correct but it is closer. You may notice I didn't tackle pose at all. I think the pose is a bit flimsy for a fighter, it isn't at all aggressive or all that defensive. The arm positioning still confuses me and the legs are a bit to close together still.
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Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #17 on: August 06, 2007, 01:55:45 pm
hm, good point I shall edit.

Offline billybob

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #18 on: August 06, 2007, 11:34:21 pm


any better

Offline tocky

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Re: fighter sprite

Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 11:40:55 am
On zeid's edit, notice the thinning at the knees and thighs. I think you're oversimplifying forms too much, everything is blobs. Your older sprite is the same - textured blobs. You'll have a lot less trouble defining the shape of things if you go and find out what shape they are, first.