AuthorTopic: Side-view character; having trouble with shading  (Read 2152 times)

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Side-view character; having trouble with shading

on: November 13, 2019, 04:37:23 am
Hey all, gonna keep this short since it's 4:30am where I am now. I'm having trouble with shading this character I made - the arms and hands especially.



Thanks in advance!

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 03:34:45 am
Changed up the shading and tried a stretching pose:

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 12:10:04 am
your drawing kinda suffers from a lack of structure. As is, it's basically an HD stick figure.

I highly reccomend starting this design over with more of a structured approach, the poses are a good start so try and recreate that with one of these bad boys:

PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline Mistajaye

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jason Andrew Buividas
    • View Profile
    • Daily Click, is fun place to play homebrewed GAMEs ^_~

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 12:38:19 am
I disagree,

Your structure is spot on IMO. Here is something I'd try, dunno if it's your style but I thought I'd give it a stab. Overall the Work is Solid and style speaks for itself. He has Character. I added 3 shades, my approach was to add real-time lighting and visible range around the right leg and arm to give it distance from the viewer and/or audience. I know I say this to pretty much everything I reply to, but I cannot wait to see the final product yo! No doubt. GL and HF and I hope this helps. I understand if it doesn't match the style you were going for~ Basically I just wanted to see what I could do. No more no less.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 04:48:22 am by Mistajaye »
~ Jason Andrew Buividas [Creator/Inventor/Actor/Director/Artist] ^_^

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #4 on: November 17, 2019, 02:49:56 am
I... 100% disagree with that assessment, mistajaye. This sounds a lot more harsh than I intend, but this current iteration is a step removed from a stick figure. Here's a blue-line go-over with some notes on what I'm seeing wrong.



It's clear they're going for a specific art style, but the lack of structure on display is holding it down a lot.



Heres a very quick VERY rough re-ssketch I did, I tried to keep in mind the goals of the piece as I perceive them doing this. My linework isn't exactly the best when i'm freehanding it, but you can see how I've reworked the pose and tried to make areas like the legs flow a bit better
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 06:12:17 am
I... 100% disagree with that assessment, mistajaye. This sounds a lot more harsh than I intend, but this current iteration is a step removed from a stick figure. Here's a blue-line go-over with some notes on what I'm seeing wrong.



It's clear they're going for a specific art style, but the lack of structure on display is holding it down a lot.



Heres a very quick VERY rough re-ssketch I did, I tried to keep in mind the goals of the piece as I perceive them doing this. My linework isn't exactly the best when i'm freehanding it, but you can see how I've reworked the pose and tried to make areas like the legs flow a bit better

It doesnít just sound harsh, it sounds like youíve completely missed the point of the design. This isnít supposed to be an anatomically correct human, itís supposed to be a cartoonish depiction of one, ŗ la Gravity Falls or Steven Universe.

I get that youíre trying to help, but the things you labelled as wrong are exactly what I was going for. Except the thigh thing, which Iím like 90% sure is entirely fabricated. And Iím not all that enamored with your sketch either, tbh.

I disagree,

Your structure is spot on IMO. Here is something I'd try, dunno if it's your style but I thought I'd give it a stab. Overall the Work is Solid and style speaks for itself. He has Character. I added 3 shades, my approach was to add real-time lighting and visible range around the right leg and arm to give it distance from the viewer and/or audience. I know I say this to pretty much everything I reply to, but I cannot wait to see the final product yo! No doubt. GL and HF and I hope this helps. I understand if it doesn't match the style you were going for~ Basically I just wanted to see what I could do. No more no less.



Thanks for the kind words :)

Youíre right that the style doesnít quite match (especially since Iím trying to stick to 8 colors), but I actually hadnít considered dithering for the fabricky bits, and the use of the hair color as an extra shade for the skin is something I toyed with before but discarded - clearly too early.

Hereís what I came up with after some tinkering... Iíll probably tweak it some later:

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #6 on: November 17, 2019, 12:10:37 pm
I'm not going to deny my sketch is pretty bad, but as a cartoonist i take massive issue with the idea you don't have to understand anatomy to do it.

I'm not gonna beat my head against yours till you submit, but you're only going to hurt your art in the long run taking shortcuts like that.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 04:05:03 pm
I'm not going to deny my sketch is pretty bad, but as a cartoonist i take massive issue with the idea you don't have to understand anatomy to do it.

I'm not gonna beat my head against yours till you submit, but you're only going to hurt your art in the long run taking shortcuts like that.

As a non-cartoonist, I take issue with the idea that you _have_ to understand anatomy to do it. Iíd like to see the waist of the average (human) Adventure Time character, or the well-structured face of a Rick and Morty character, for example.

Anyway, hereís a sketch of a front-on view, along with the sprites sketched over for comparison. Since the sprites are side-on and the character doesnít have a cylinder for a torso, Iíd say theyíre pretty consistent.

Offline Mistajaye

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jason Andrew Buividas
    • View Profile
    • Daily Click, is fun place to play homebrewed GAMEs ^_~

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 07:47:34 pm
Silverbrick, I Love your new tweaked version. I don't think there's much more you can do. It looks perfect IMO.
~ Jason Andrew Buividas [Creator/Inventor/Actor/Director/Artist] ^_^

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 09:25:52 pm
Actually, Finn the Human is a great example of what I mean! While not necessarily "anatomically accurate," he does have some very firmly established design notes that you can spot watching the series. A lot of what makes Adventure Time look good despite its very loose noodly art style is the design documents that swarm around how every character looks and moves!





As you can see, a LOT of thought is put into how the characters move and how their body does/does not contort. Later seasons even give Finn a bit more of a pot belly, to break up his pill body-shape some,
This is them essentially "designing their anatomy," it doesn't necessarily conform to realistic anatomy most times but is still informed by/based around similar rulesets. They have SPECIFIC ways of moving to keep things looking nice.

Essentially, they "built" a very simple skeleton for finn's design that they work from to maintain design consistency.



You can also see this in many other cartoons.


I feel like I made my point here very poorly, the problem isn't that yours isn't anatomically correct (as you ARE going for a cartoon art style) but that you don't seem to have "designed their anatomy" enough for every line to feel intentional, hence me saying it feels like an excuse. I came off far more hostile/elitist than I intended here, and for that I apologize.


PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline Mistajaye

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jason Andrew Buividas
    • View Profile
    • Daily Click, is fun place to play homebrewed GAMEs ^_~

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 03:23:26 am
Actually I Dig your Advice my Man mr MysteryMeat. Great Tips! No doubt yo! Believe it.
~ Jason Andrew Buividas [Creator/Inventor/Actor/Director/Artist] ^_^

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 04:09:33 am
-Snip-

No problem, Iíve made similar mistakes before. I apologise for getting defensive.

I tried to mess with the torso, arms and face a bit here (left is old, right is new):


Still not quite sure about it, I guess Iíll sleep on it.

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #12 on: November 18, 2019, 06:16:50 pm
That improved the flow on the torso a lot! I think the next thing to consider here is the shading, I don't think the dithering quite works at this scale and makes it look textured. It's most noticeable on the skirt.

Here's two edits I did; one "clustering" the shading up so it's less coarse, and a second more intense edit where I reshaped the shading and a bit of the form:



One big thing I did was remove the divot in the skirt in favor of the impression of "folds" from where the fabric is pulled taut by her thighs.

I also tweaked her face and hair shading, as well as making the pointer and index finger knuckles "bump out" a bit.
(Samurai jack's later seasons do this a lot, and I just love how they handle hands in that show. check the spoiler for a good fan study of said hands as the official sheet changed in later seasons and isn't available on google as far as I can tell)



(also yeah, happens to the best of us haha, I've had my own fair share of defensive attitudes)
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #13 on: November 18, 2019, 08:50:49 pm
That improved the flow on the torso a lot! I think the next thing to consider here is the shading, I don't think the dithering quite works at this scale and makes it look textured. It's most noticeable on the skirt.

Here's two edits I did; one "clustering" the shading up so it's less coarse, and a second more intense edit where I reshaped the shading and a bit of the form:



One big thing I did was remove the divot in the skirt in favor of the impression of "folds" from where the fabric is pulled taut by her thighs.

I also tweaked her face and hair shading, as well as making the pointer and index finger knuckles "bump out" a bit.
(Samurai jack's later seasons do this a lot, and I just love how they handle hands in that show. check the spoiler for a good fan study of said hands as the official sheet changed in later seasons and isn't available on google as far as I can tell)



(also yeah, happens to the best of us haha, I've had my own fair share of defensive attitudes)

The characterís actually nonbinary, and itís supposed to be ambiguous whether theyíre wearing a skirt or baggy shorts - hence the divot. (I think I did a pretty good job of that, considering you called them female and Mistajaye called them male)

I like the shading for the arms and face on your first edit, but honestly I prefer the textured look of the dithering. It makes the skirt/shorts feel floatier to me, stops the hair looking like individual strands and gives the impression of creasing on the shirt. Maybe Iíll find it looks bad in an animation/game and get rid of it then, but Iíll keep it for now. I think itís just a matter of personal preference at this scale, and I donít mind the graininess.

The hands are interesting and might be something I use for other characters, but I want to give the impression that this person is more pragmatic than refined. They have no martial arts training; they just hit things where they think itíll hurt.

Offline SilverBrick

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 09:14:31 pm
Alright, hereís an ultra-quick edit I made:

Offline Mistajaye

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Jason Andrew Buividas
    • View Profile
    • Daily Click, is fun place to play homebrewed GAMEs ^_~

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 03:24:49 am
HAHA, I think that's a WINNER! Believe it. Excellent form of pixel purrrrfection meow. the Colors and Dithering and Sexy lighting effects does this piece JUSTICE. Cannot wait to see the final Product my Man.

and yeah, definitely a Male IMO could be a Female though, and I was about to say Female at first too Mystery ROFL. But then I double glanced at the chest area and BAM nothing was telling me Female... Now though Maybe She or He was still in their Kiddo years and haven't fully developed I did not know. With that said~ I am curious to see more of the Game Silver!, Could you do us an Honor and leak some more Pics pwease. or e-mail me via jason.buividas@gmail.com ~ if u wanna be discreet and all dat jazz. And I understand if you don't want to at all. At least I tried. LOL that I did. *blushes
~ Jason Andrew Buividas [Creator/Inventor/Actor/Director/Artist] ^_^

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #16 on: November 21, 2019, 06:55:26 am
[redacted e-rp]

please do not role-play on the board
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline loni_art

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • bwaha
    • loni_art
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/48336.htm
    • loni-art
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #17 on: November 24, 2019, 03:41:05 am
hey, i did an edit

heres a recording on how i did it

my main goal was to cohese the colors further, i fused some of the ramps, shortened some, also tried to give more weight to the character, both in thickness and pose, i also simplified the shading further, to only show the necessary form, that way its more easier to work with
repeat on repeat

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Side-view character; having trouble with shading

Reply #18 on: November 24, 2019, 05:30:59 am
excellent edit, showcases a lot of what I was trying to in mine and a bit more besides!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |