AuthorTopic: Pixelation Complaints  (Read 11952 times)

Offline Helm

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Pixelation Complaints

on: July 29, 2005, 08:21:40 am
Among several others. I took issue with a lot of stuff going on at Pixelation. I always felt it was a terrific forum, particularly in that it was well-known enough to bring occasional visits from publishers and developers. Because of that it's also the reason I got my first paid pixel gig. But the moderating was downright juvenile at times, and usually overbearing. I guess I always kind of hoped for a forum with the renown of Pixelation, and the atmosphere of Pixeldev.

I am quite curious on what stuff you took issue with on Pixelation and I'd like you (and anyone else who feels the same way) to discuss these issues openly so we can hope for a better pixelation when it comes back online. I didn't want to potentially derail and also negatively charge the welcome thread, but it seems we have baggage that I do feel should be resolved. I personally never saw pixelation moderation go juvenile, although I can see the overbearing aspect, I guess. Morganne, you sals or whoever else felt pixelation had problems, be it with the mods or the attitude of the boards or anything else, this is be the place to constructively discuss them.

I note that I am not currently a pixelation moderator, just another pixelation user, so this isn't a 'mod trap' hehe or anything of the kind. As long as it's a civil discussion, anything goes. I can only hope we can resolve the issues that arise. Pixelation shouldn't just be a 'popular board' as you say, to score pay gigs, that's not it's function. Pixelation should be a place old-standing members like sals should feel welcome to, and maybe even at home in.

Offline Evan

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #1 on: July 29, 2005, 01:46:24 pm
Well, I think the one thing that turned me off to pixelation was it's overwhelming size.

At pixeldev, you could make a post about a new piece of art and get 3, maybe 4 meaningful replies.

At pixelation, you would either get absolutely no replies, or you would get like, 16 replies (most of which were "That's cool, is it for a game??")

So I'd like it if people were active with the report function, and there wasn't much tolerance for lots of spam. Maybe keep an eye on users who have an overwhelming balance of useless posts. If it gets too bad, give 'em a temporary ban.

Offline Negative Gravity

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 04:14:00 am
That sounds a bit harsh dont' you think, StairwaytoEvan? Although, I guess it's the only thing left to do to actually make people post useful and relavant posts or complete leave the community and never ever ever come back.

aka: Zoomrix

Offline Rox

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #3 on: July 30, 2005, 04:59:26 am
Yeah, spamming at Pixelation wasn't bad at all, at least I don't found it bad. There was a bit problem going on with actual critique in the later ... stages, but I think that was just because of that enormous influx of newbies that appeared from nowhere. I know I was active about telling people off and trying to prevent unfitting comments, and from what I saw the other mods (and many regular members) did a good job with it as well.

Of course critique is very much encouraged, as that's what Pixelation was about, but I don't see a need for it to be constantly enforced.

Also, that theory that giving someone useful comments would encourage them to comment on your next piece... that really does work in a lot of cases.

Offline Rydin

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #4 on: July 30, 2005, 05:18:21 am
I think that pixelation always had people who just just want to get there post counts up, and wouldn't take much time to actually appreciate the art. It started to become like a mainstream thing; "yeah, my friend's signed up, and so is the rest of the 'cool' kids from my school". Well, it was never that bad, but it seemed like people where joining just to say they did.  Also, there was a point when almost nobody thought the art had any imperfections, and would always say that the art was perfect, which is a complement, but provides no help to improve the artist's skills.

Another big thing about pixelation, which I think was its ultimate downfall, was the rants.  I think that when people start to challenge a society with opposing views, it can possibly work out for the good of the community. But seriously, its an art forum; instead of taking 30 minutes to type up a big opinion, why not just make some art expressing these views.

Also, a small thing I felt was a bad move was to make a bunch of different sections. In the old days there was serious and general critique, and that was it. I don't feel a board just for announcements or another board just for off topic threads was really necessary.
I believe that do to the combination of ranting and 'gizmos' on the site, pixelation started to lose quality  content, and considering that a forum is based on content, it was probably not a positive thing for pixelation.

Now, I must get back to pixeling :P.
Man cannot remake himself without suffering for he is both the marble and the sculptor.

Offline Mercury Rising

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #5 on: July 30, 2005, 03:05:31 pm
Quote from: Rydin link

Another big thing about pixelation, which I think was its ultimate downfall, was the rants. I think that when people start to challenge a society with opposing views, it can possibly work out for the good of the community. But seriously, its an art forum; instead of taking 30 minutes to type up a big opinion, why not just make some art expressing these views.
It was for a contest, an essay contest... there was no graphical choice. If that wasn't directed towards me, oppsie. PS Judging for the contest will start in a week!

Also just to point this out,
Quote from: General Discussion board
Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 03:12:31 pm by BrotherInWar »
Proud to be a BMS team:

Offline Evan

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 09:46:05 pm
That sounds a bit harsh dont' you think, StairwaytoEvan? Although, I guess it's the only thing left to do to actually make people post useful and relavant posts or complete leave the community and never ever ever come back.

I don't think it's harsh at all. I mean, would you want somebody (or in this case, hundreds of somebodies) making useless posts? I say give them a warning, and if they don't comply, give 'em a temp ban. If they come back and make no change, permaban 'em.

It seems like the obvious solution to me...

Offline Alex

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #7 on: July 31, 2005, 06:10:35 am
ummm as long as Pep isnt there im cool.

</JOKES JOKES>

I was talking about this earlier this week with darion but i think alot of us have taken pixelation for granted really. It really got me started into my art and everything and i met loads of cool people and made some great friends really. I just hope too see the place as happy and as cheerful as it used to be. Hopefully a new layout going because that brucelee kinda got to me after a while rofl. The community we had there was strong and still is even behind the forums but throughout the members themselves so i have no doubt that this will be a good thing. I myself arent as absorbed into pixels as much anymore i dont think, i still enjoy it but i find myself to approach pixels in a much different way and i hope that i dont get bashed if i post my junk lol. I find myself painting with pixels now instead of literally making lines and colouring them. its a different feel and i like it better. I have no complaints about the old pixelation really, other than the strict rule of having to C+C because personally i like c+c and all but like give us a break, its an art forum...how about we have some fun. If the person wants c+c give it but dont freak if one person doesnt. these are my views. thanks for you time.
alexander

Offline Rox

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #8 on: July 31, 2005, 10:01:01 am
I don't think it's harsh at all. I mean, would you want somebody (or in this case, hundreds of somebodies) making useless posts? I say give them a warning, and if they don't comply, give 'em a temp ban. If they come back and make no change, permaban 'em.

It seems like the obvious solution to me...
It's not that simple. It never is. First of all, we never did have hundreds of people all making useless posts. Second, if people did go out of their way and bump, say, half a page worth of old threads (has happened), they'd always recieve a warning, and if they kept it up, a post-count zap or a ban.

So... in actuality, I guess Pixelation always worked like what you're suggesting now, except the temp ban was replaced with a zap.
And you can't disencourage people from giving positive comments. Even if "cool, keep it up" is more worthless than not, it's just something that happens. I know several of my 2000 posts were a lot like that. It's just fun to give a piece of one's mind without having to spend 5 minutes thinking up three paragraphs of critique that might not even matter that much. Trust me when I say that the Pixelation mod crew did a LOT of warning and zapping that other members never got to see.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #9 on: July 31, 2005, 10:50:46 am
Just wanted to make some comments about posting:

I don't think it's bad to reply to old posts. Secondly, if someone's posting new material to one of their own posts, and it ages to the point where it falls off the page, I think that double posting is the more responsible action to take, versus creating a new thread that only adds to the 'noise' on a forum.

When we use the term bumping, it takes on a shade of negativity. The general feeling seems to be that if a thread falls off a page, it's obviously done with, and that new posts deserve the attention. But when a forum grows large, there's so much topic movement that it's just a natural part of the chaos that we have to get used to. Granted, a larger forum means more inexperienced artists posting works which, quantatively, means that the forum has less 'good' art, and such people might be better off doing more studying before they post (a more strict/helpful signup quiz could resolve this?).

It sounds like some people are of this mindset: When old posts are getting 'bumped', my posts lose visibility and that takes away from my chances to get a reply. That's more than likely true, but it's also a theoretical perspective of an individual wanting to get their own needs met.

You might want to only give quick praise in a reply. That's great, nobody should dissuade you from posting at all, unless that becomes a habit, because people may tend to ignore that if they see someone who's always praising but never criticizing! It is best to at least try to focus on the ideal of constructive criticism. Good critique is just as challenging as creating good pixel art and it's something to practice at.

When I give more effort into a critique, I am benefitting the forum on the whole:
1. The chances that the artist learns something and improves are increased.
2. The resulting works from that critique are likely to be better, thus we now have better work on the forum by a better artist, who through solid critique has learned how to judge art as well, rather than how to suck up to someone.
3. The quantative value of good art on the forum increases, creating more interest, as well as friendly competition to self-improve.
4. But most importantly, the number of available 'good' artists available to respond to threads is increased, which cuts down on the delay before demand is supplied. We surely can't all be here all the same time to answer someone in need, but at least more people who have benefitted by your wisdom ought to be there.

So, to conclude: Critique isn't ever easy, but whether you feel like giving it or not, it's worth it.

Offline Helm

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #10 on: July 31, 2005, 02:57:24 pm
note that bumping a thread that has literally done it's course, even if you reply with the best c&c ever, is not right. If you bump a thread by last year with critical information about my art heh, it's been a year. Chances are I've figured most of that stuff out already. Pressing critique goes to newest and what the artist considers his best work always.

Offline Evan

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #11 on: July 31, 2005, 03:06:35 pm
If replying to old threads is a problem, you could (try to) implement a system where when the user is satisfied, they can close the thread and give credit to whoever helped them. This would add points or something to the user. This system is over at the allegro.cc forums, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement in this type of forum. I'm not sure if you could program it in.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #12 on: July 31, 2005, 03:50:10 pm
In the myriad of forum design discussions I've had with people, a points system such as that was considered. Actually, Zoggles and I came up with a concept for a new PixelZone in which there were a series of sections with different economic conditions. How much you pay to post, how many points would then be available to responders, possibly a pot in which you can reward your most helpful critiques of your work. Even extras, such as purchasing pixel 'gifts' that would be visible in a user's profile... The regulatory system was meant to try to nudge users in such a way that forum sections would have similar traffic and you'd be more likely to get critiques from your equals or betters. If new users were neglected, then economic conditions would be modified in order to compensate. That kind of micro control was seen as somewhat negative in the sense that it was an additional element that we had to focus on in running the forum, but after considering a few scenarios, we found that it was a fairly good system for motivating most users.



But... Pixelation is not that system. :P
« Last Edit: July 31, 2005, 03:52:21 pm by Peppermint Pig »

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #13 on: July 31, 2005, 06:45:54 pm
I don't think there's really anything to discuss. The best way to put it is that I and a few others didn't see eye to eye with how the forum was run by some of the mods. Explanation beyond that is just going to turn into he said she said stuff.

- Adam

Offline Rydin

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #14 on: August 01, 2005, 05:49:18 am

It was for a contest, an essay contest... there was no graphical choice.  If that wasn't directed towards me, oppsie.   PS Judging for the contest will start in a week!



XD... I wasn't talking about that kind of stuff, but I mean the rants and opinons threads, like this one.
Man cannot remake himself without suffering for he is both the marble and the sculptor.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #15 on: August 01, 2005, 07:27:49 am
I have a question for everyone. Do people prefer that threads last forever, or that they are deleted with age?? Would archiving (and/or locking) old threads be a better way to save the information while preventing posters from bringing back long-expired topics? What about some sort of checkbox to suggest archiving?

I'd prefer it be automated... but any ideas are welcome here.

Offline Darien

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #16 on: August 01, 2005, 08:06:51 am
I'd prefer archiving, because many times would I be reminded of certain pixel piece and then I would go search for it, so I'm sure that'll happen again.  Perhaps if a topic is locked after 30 days of no replies?  It would be nice if the original poster could unlock it if they so desired, but I suppose that wouldn't really be necessary.

Offline Panda

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #17 on: August 01, 2005, 09:10:51 am
Archiving would be nice.
It's always fun/interesting (and even educational if so!) going back to old threads, and show how several stuff should be done, or just as a time killer.
I think that as a check box should work nice, those that want the thread archived just have to tick it, and those that dont, can have the the threads deleted when they go off a few pages.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #18 on: August 01, 2005, 09:19:23 am
Should such a checkbox be available for anybody to click, or should a group of people be set up to make that decision? I think it might be possible to set such an ability based on a user's rank...

Offline Panda

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #19 on: August 01, 2005, 09:23:07 am
What about everybody being able to click it, but having to pass a mod control or something to be archived?

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #20 on: August 01, 2005, 02:14:48 pm
I have a question for everyone. Do people prefer that threads last forever, or that they are deleted with age?? Would archiving (and/or locking) old threads be a better way to save the information while preventing posters from bringing back long-expired topics? What about some sort of checkbox to suggest archiving?

I'd prefer it be automated... but any ideas are welcome here.
Archive for sure. It would make replying to "how do I do x in iso" or similar type topics simpler because we could tell them to simply search the forum for old topics on that subject. And we relly need to start preserving the things that get said on this forum. It saddens me to think of all the lengthy useful replies people have made that are forever gone. Could be helpful for replies too, by making it possible for people to look for the advice given in similar topics when trying to make critiques

Offline diced

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #21 on: August 01, 2005, 07:09:29 pm
I am quite curious on what stuff you took issue with on Pixelation and I'd like you (and anyone else who feels the same way) to discuss these issues openly so we can hope for a better pixelation when it comes back online.
Is it okay if we do the opposite? I would like to praise the Pixelation structure and its moderation.
In my experience with Pixelation I have often acted immature, stubborn and destructive beyond what is acceptable at any community. Did the staff of Pixelation initially ban me? No they took their time and tried to talk sense into me. Sadly I was too tenacious at the point of time to realise how wrong I was and eventually they had to ban me. And to be honest I deserved to be banned you can forever quote me on that, and I am very sorry for the way I acted.

My motive to posting here is that I think you guys deserve this recognition and praise, (I will not be posting here after this, since I have nothing to do with pixel art anymore), you work hard and I know that you have often had to bite your tounge whenever someone attacked you.
After Pixelation went down we have seen a lot of new forums spread (I even had a couple... And this really helped me to see things clearer), and I can say that personally I think the Pixelation staff forms the best team. They are mature, articulate and most importantly they really care about what a pixel art board should be about: Learning and helping others learn about pixel art.

I wish you guys the best of luck.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 07:14:06 pm by diced »

Offline DarkSword

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #22 on: August 01, 2005, 11:53:45 pm
(I will not be posting here after this, since I have nothing to do with pixel art anymore

 :'(


I'll have to agree with diced and those that spoke before him here. Pixelation just plain worked as a result of the actions of the people who ran it. Actions of tolerance. It has become very clear that a limited amount of tolerance is needed in order to have a peaceful Pixelation. It would see that that is the general consensus.
There cannot be unanimity without dissent.

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Offline Helm

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 07:15:04 am
diced, making that post took a lot of balls. You and I haven't been on best terms in the past, but that doesn't stop me from telling you this, and that I am impressed, and respect your initiative. Whether you continue to do pixel art or not is your own choice, but if you do, remember that, as you said, in helping each other become better pixel artists, pixelation will always be the place to post for critique. There'll always be some forum drama and pixelation user politics, but hopefully this will not dilute the essence of the place.

Darksword: let's not get too much into eulogizing. Pixelation DID suffer from too-harsh-too-swift moderation at times, and I can tell you because I was also partly responsible. After a long time as a mod, you sorta start to lose patience with the preliminary actions that would at the end result in a lock, mostly. Bans where more considerate, of course, and it should be noted that for such a giant forum, the number of total bans were extremely low. But towards the end of the last run of the boards, there would be locked threads and deleted posts sometimes even without a single warning. The userbase just got too big to do the PM-dance with everybody that broke the rules. I don't believe this added strictness is bad in itself, but it was bad in that it didn't reflect in our FAQ and TOS of the time, and we were unable to change them. Basically, we outgrew our old FAQ very much, and were unable to update it to mirror the new set of standards. Now we can, though, so that's going to be fixed, hopefully.

Sals: I see you bow out of a constructive discussion of the matter. I'd like to see you retract the 'juvenile' accusation if you do, at least, since not seeing 'eye to eye' (which I understand as 'agreeing to dissagree' mostly) shouldn't include insulting the people you don't see eye to eye with, but hey...

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #24 on: August 03, 2005, 11:25:33 am
Thank you for acknowledging the troubles of Pixelation Diced.

Helm is correct. We literally could not modify the FAQ/Rules to reflect with the times, which was a disadvantage in keeping the forum on a productive path. Tsugumo and Frozen were fading out of the picture, so without the presense of our head admins, or an official relationship with our hosting, we began to question our own authority as the organization evolved. We had to think on our feet more often than we wanted to.

Quote
Darksword: let's not get too much into eulogizing. Pixelation DID suffer from too-harsh-too-swift moderation at times, and I can tell you because I was also partly responsible.
I'll second that. The incidents where people posted fake jobs brought about heightened scrutiny towards even legitimate job posters, which likely appeared harsh and unreasonable to them, making me and the others look bad. While swiftness can be bad, not every account can be dismissed as such: The staff had spent many hours deliberating on the various issues of the forum, and swiftness became an interest of productivity in order to return the forum to its focus.

Still, Diced and DarkSword bring up a good point: Pixelation moderators must be patient, able to commit, reason, and re-evaluate every step of the way, and it can be very stressful. The patience it demands also requires a great deal of time in service. There's often little reward. Unfortunately, too few people are able to deal with it. We really could use more good mods. And because Pixelation was a critique based forum, critique of the moderators performance was also embraced. Accountability was expected.

Personally, I can safely say that I am biased by my experiences and position. Even so, I've always tried to be objective as a moderator, even when it meant ruling against friends. The coldness of objectivity has often been misinterpreted as hatred, and an unwarranted prejudice looms still.

If I may parley back to Diced's observations, I'd bring up the issue of perspective over a period of time. It appeared that some people held the belief that the moderators at Pixelation were, to bluntly generalize, corrupt thugs. In the course of over a year, forums have risen and fallen, partly based on these beliefs. Some people who objected to the principles of moderatorship, or the individuals who represented the authority, became moderators themselves in other venues and have possibly obtained a certain amount of perspective on the matters of community and fairness. This is an excellent opportunity for those people to share their experiences. Even the common members of forums must have some opinions on the policies and methods by which a site chooses to operate.

For some people, it's difficult to relate to the perspective of someone of 'authority'. Even the suggestion brings perceptions of disparity. And to the regular member, the perspective tends to be that a moderator is popular until the rules fall out of your favor and they bring down their authority on you. Some people race to the conclusion that the rules are explicitly slanted against them, let alone any possibility that someone of authority can act fairly and objectively in the first place.

Moderators are not immune to error. They are human. Sure they have 'powers', but the only thing they are guaranteed by taking up the position is responsibility. Some people will avoid responsibility when it is convenient, but If moderators were the absolute law, then people would see no reason to be responsible in any way for themselves or to the community for which the governing body caters, because their freedoms would be so heavily restricted by the whimsy of the few. While rules help keep the system focused, freedom cannot be legislated, and responsibility cannot be given. If you can see the common values of the community, you're compassed to understand the good and bad elements that it is composed of.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #25 on: September 07, 2005, 12:54:37 am
My first complaint, is that helm had to do a topic for this space to exist.

*I think there should always be public space for any user to make a complaint. I think it may have been part of the reason flamewars (or as close as we came to have one) started, when the users felt the system was failing they just built up resent, only expresing it when hate was already involved which translated into abusive comments.

now, I dont say this is how it has to be, but I think the ideal is that this space were sort of a sub-section of the admin board, and have the same mood to it, just people trying to take care of the problems, and discussing calmly the best way to go around them.

*second...is I think we became too tolerant to bringing others down. I felt I acted like a grangatuan ass recently when I reviewed my past actions in pixelation, and I apologize to anyone that felt I abused. But it is more concerning to me that only once did anyone tell me so.

under the guise of C&C we've allowed empty critiques that are stated politely to seem "OK", thus many get away with bringing other downs for now reason, just because they are SUPPOSED to.

I do not know how to fix or regulate this, but I think it is something to watch out for, something for the staff to keep in mind.

*The removal of the "jobs" board, it may not be necesary at the moment, but I belive it was never rational or well deserved to just let jobs fall trough as "general" comments.

*I belive ocasionally the staff may take issues personally and become biased against certain users, I've never actually been in the situation, and I know the people who make all the fuss and create all the drama are the ones most responsible, but I feel sometimes the staff does play along and help inflate the situations a bit.

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #26 on: September 07, 2005, 07:14:28 am
As Tsu stated, the OT was the place to complain about moderators and discuss anything outside of the purview of the forum.

This thread was meant as an additional service, becuase apparently people were not taking advantage of the liberties available to them already. And it's a new forum and we wanted to start off fresh again.

How should we organize the forum sections for the time being?

Offline Evan

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #27 on: September 11, 2005, 02:48:08 am
How should we organize the forum sections for the time being?

I think the organization is fine, except I would like a challenge/activity forum, since they will most definately become a larger part of this forum...

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #28 on: September 11, 2005, 07:45:02 am
That sounds reasonable to me. I'll set it up as soon as I'm awake here.. XD

Whether it works out or not, I'm open to giving this a shot. I think it will, though.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #29 on: September 13, 2005, 12:34:34 pm
yeah, and archive old activities while you are at it.

is there the posiblity to make sub-forum sections? I mean forum sections only linked to from a forum section?

like for example Pixelopolis>Pixelart>portraits

Offline Bisque

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #30 on: September 17, 2005, 10:43:13 am
yeah, and archive old activities while you are at it.

is there the posiblity to make sub-forum sections? I mean forum sections only linked to from a forum section?

like for example Pixelopolis>Pixelart>portraits

Well..i suppose that would be good for organization purposes but..is it really that feasable? I mean how many people are going to be making enough portraits to warrant a whole subsection JUST for that? And I know that was just an example, but still, the same question would apply to whatever subsection(s) had been suggested. Correct me if i'm wrong lol :x I just dont see there being that much of a need.


EDIT://
(a more strict/helpful signup quiz could resolve this?).


What exactly would a sign-up quiz entail? The persons ability to give critique/abide by rules etc, or their art skills/knowledge? Either way..I dont really see that as fair. By creating a set standard you could be preventing those like myself from even attempting to join simply out of fear. I will say that a lot of you guys scare the crap out of me.

Or did i missunderstand the meaning of what you're suggesting? haha
« Last Edit: September 17, 2005, 11:23:50 am by Bisque »

Offline miascugh

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #31 on: September 17, 2005, 12:43:18 pm
(a more strict/helpful signup quiz could resolve this?).


What exactly would a sign-up quiz entail? The persons ability to give critique/abide by rules etc, or their art skills/knowledge? Either way..I dont really see that as fair. By creating a set standard you could be preventing those like myself from even attempting to join simply out of fear. I will say that a lot of you guys scare the crap out of me.

Or did i missunderstand the meaning of what you're suggesting? haha


no no, the quiz was in action before (around the time i joined back then) and it was to ensure that people actually read the faq tsugumo then wrote before posting. i think it was a nice feature that introduced newbies to the lingo and guidelines/etiquette, helping to avoid unnecessary redundant asking about basics and conventions (heh, the point of faqs i guess)
i think it would be nice to have something like that again

Offline Bisque

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #32 on: September 17, 2005, 06:59:43 pm


no no, the quiz was in action before (around the time i joined back then) and it was to ensure that people actually read the faq tsugumo then wrote before posting. i think it was a nice feature that introduced newbies to the lingo and guidelines/etiquette, helping to avoid unnecessary redundant asking about basics and conventions (heh, the point of faqs i guess)
i think it would be nice to have something like that again

ahh okay THAT would make sense x_x. I was scared for a minute lmao.

That must have been during one of the times I wasnt around haha x_o

Offline silvir

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #33 on: September 17, 2005, 09:33:43 pm
Pixelation mods are teh 0wnage.

Aaaanyways, on the topic of organization: I like just a few forums. Current setup works for me. But, for all those people that really like to be organized, we could try implementing a sort of "tagging" feature. Just think Flickr, del.icio.us, and whatnot. It's a thought.

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #34 on: September 17, 2005, 11:28:41 pm
I don't think the current categories will suffice when the official pixel-arts boards go live. I really think we should create a seperate section for job opportunities, and I think the separation of animated and static images was a tremendously smart idea. Animations are plain harder to critique.

I think with static images after a while you learn to pick out the simpler things to comment on, such as AA, colour-choice, slight anatomical issue. Animations are a lot harder to comment on as simpler comments are harder to make because AA, colour-choice, and anatomy can take a backseat as you try to think of ways to improve the animations. Commenting on the effectiveness of keyframes, and making suggestions on how to recreate frames to better suggest movement can also be a much more time consuming process. All of these have lead in the past to animation postings falling quickly down the page, and failing to achieve the attention they deserve.

I think it might be worth separating the static image category into at least two categories. I noticed that in the old pixelation, posts in the static image section could move pretty far down the page in less than a day, which is why I suggest there be two categories for static images. I know that at one point there were serious and not-so serious categories to post art. How did they work out while they were in use?

Offline Sawtooth

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #35 on: September 18, 2005, 03:13:50 am
forced faq reading is good.  When I first signed up for pixelation, I read that sucker like, three times before posting.  But then again, it was my first forum ever (awwwww) so I was ever so careful to try not to make newbie mistakes.

I didn't see much of pixelation in its animated/static incarnation, so I don't know how well that worked.  I did, however, like the separation between serious and casual critiques in the old forum.  It felt right, at least for me.
rip ninjalicious

Offline Xion

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #36 on: September 19, 2005, 02:18:10 am
I really liked the old quiz. Before I joined I had no idea what anything was. I was just I kid who liked sprites. Unfortunately, I think the quiz was decommissioned soon after my joinage, so I never really noticed whether or not it actually made a difference. But the 100 char limit...now that worked. Of course, sometimes along would come a newb or spammer or even someone who didn't speak much english who would just fill the space with ' 's or '_'s, but for the most part, it deterred those people, not to mention the mods excellent job of keeping things under control. Of course, the 100 chars did get annoying sometimes when I just had to praise a work...

Anyway, I really liked the old pixelation as it was just before the Great Fall, although I always wished for a personal user gallery akin to Pixeljoint or Pixelerate.

That's about it.

Offline Locrian

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #37 on: September 21, 2005, 01:43:08 am
hmm I never noticed any problems with the mods.  But I guess I may have already been pretty faded away from pixelation by whatever time that people are talking about.  And I'm not out to fight the system like a lot of artsy people seem to be.  Remember, this is an art form.  Art attracts crazy personalities.   ;)  And it flat out just doesn't matter what you do you can't please everyone.  I can't really make any suggestions on how things should be run, because with every idea I can see how it would piss some people off.  Like for me personally, I got bored with pixelation when people seemed to just stop caring.  You had a lot of people coming in who weren't very good at pixeling and/or didn't take it seriously, the boards seemed swamped with little doodads that looked like the person spent maybe 5 minutes on it.  I got tired of looking at lower quality work to put it bluntly.  Not that I think there should be a skill level requirement or anything.  Anything that bears the Pixelation name should be all about helping people become better pixelers, no matter what their skill level is.  The first incarnation of Pixelation was where I learned to pixel, I sucked, and I still suck, but I try and when I post something its not just for asspats.  But there were so many posters that would blow off critique with "yeah ok ill do that on my next piece"  or "thats just my style"  or whatever.  If you don't want to try new things and learn from others you shouldn't post in Pixelation IMHO.  Its not show and tell for asspats.  There were also lots of early WIPs and sketches and things.  No one wants to see that.  Put in the effort to get the thing somewhat finished.  You'll get nowhere fast being timid wanting someone to hold your hand all the way through.  Dive in, sweat, bleed, then post for critique.  Then do it all again.  As big as Pixelation became, it was just ridiculous to have these things being posted.  I think when a forum gets as big as Pixelation was, you have to start enforcing some sort of quality level.  Not based on skill, but effort.  Which is friggen hard to measure.  So there will always be disputes.  I'm actually amazed at how organized and high quality www.conceptart.org is.  I'm sure the mods over there have gotten into quarrels with people by policing those boards however they do.  They actually enforce skill level now for the main board though, which makes sense for them, but I think is out of place with Pixelation.  But whenever a community reaches a certain size, someone has to keep order somehow, and they cant be too elastic.  Of course many people would think my point of view is "fricken fascist maaan".  Thats just the way it goes.   :)

« Last Edit: September 21, 2005, 01:48:56 am by Locrian »

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #38 on: September 21, 2005, 02:10:17 am
Several good points Locrian.

Quote
They actually enforce skill level now for the main board though, which makes sense for them, but I think is out of place with Pixelation.
I find it out of place to restrict people by skill level. I think it's most effective for a member to critique threads which they consider worthy of critique. It is better to let the individual judge this rather than enforce critique, which is absurd. Let your actions, specifically a good critique and a good effort on a work be your example. :)

Offline Benuel

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Re: Pixelation Complaints

Reply #39 on: October 26, 2005, 09:29:04 pm
Woah woah woah. Let's sort this out.

Pixelation = PERFECTION!

That is it final

Ok my keyboard just messed up I cant use the shift key and caps lock works back to front unfortunately so does the shift not working and i can only get <>< and not full stop

damn

still only pixelation has bruce as the banner

night all

|doagy keys