The B.O.B.'s Dump: B.O.B. finally submits something new...

[baccaman21]

mission impossible?

barbarian?

[big brother]

Here's my take. Yeah, I know, I totally raped the style (although I think it might be easier to animate this way). I did this mainly to illustrate depth, color (since it's a sprite, it should look distinct from the others and stand out from the background), and the palette. If you want to shift colors for alternate schemes (necessary for mirror matches), you want to keep the regions separate (resist the urge to unify) by using a single ramp for each.

[Ryona]

Lovely sprites, B.O.B.! 
Each one of them has so much character and style. And I really love the subdued colors. Gives them a nice, dark, gritty feel.

The only thing that stood out as looking odd to me was the female fighter with the swords. Her swords look like they're going through her thighs. Maybe a subtle line to seperate them might be good.


It's really amazing hearing how they started out as such a simple idea, and such simple sprites into the gorgeous masterful pixel wonders they are now. And I'm also very interested by your idea of creating a comic to host these cool characters of yours. I'd so love to see that. 

 

[The B.O.B.]

UPDATE:




   Thanks to some advice from Helm, Big Brother, and others, I've decided to update the character, for better or for worse. After a hard look at the anatomy of the character, I noticed it, as well as the perspective was broken(which again, I would like to reiterate that I break perspectives for a living...). His body looked as if it was twisted unnaturally, and shifted towards the right.
Here are the changes, that I can remember:

*So I just shortened him down, moved the front leg towards the viewer a little more to gain a better perspective of the ginga(as well as trying to get rid of the flat feet, to gain a better plain of movement)
 
*Gave him a little roll of fat to show some strain in the movement
 
*Tried separating the palette a between the pants, and skin(still wanting to keep the notion of a single color that each character must retain, for story/plot purposes)

*gave him ears and others that I can't quite remember

***Edit***
* I just noticed he looks off balance in this point of view...does anybody else notice this?

   By the way, Big brother, I loved the style you put the character in. The way the feet and shoulder was depicted, really helped me see the incorrect parts of my sprite. As for Ryona, I'll take a look at the Stripper, and see if I could tweak it a bit, so there is some separation between her leg and the swords. And Helm, the coloring on your edit was inspiring, but a little too hard for me pull off myself. However, I did understand each thing you said, and agreed with the majority of them. The only thing is I kinda wanted to keep the tattered black tape around his arms, as well as a bit more tatters on the pants, as it represents something to the character himself. However, if this new edit isn't as pleasing as it's predecessor, than I'll change it.
   Oh, and also:
 

People have nipples.

that's the greatest quote that I have ever heard. 

[Conzeit]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

if you're gonna add a different hue-ramp for his pants, I think you should use something more purplish. also you're gonna have to make your white pants a few notches darker, the arm bandages are looking pretty garish right now, that whole area looks like a big mess, so you better make sure the gray ramp has more tones for the dark bandages.

I completly see lo que decias about the new edit being off balance, not only that but it loses some of the composition aspects that make the pose so bad ass. in the old one the tigh-knee were in an angle that made it look like they were aligned to the forearm, and that gave the sprite much of it's flow. now its gone

if you're gonna shorten the leg, you should not change where the knee is at, you should move his butt and make him bend his back,change ANYTHING but the position of that freakin knee.

also...WHY IN THE HELL did you remove those shadows in his bicep and tricep? those were beautiful stuff AAAAAH...I think it's no mistery to anybody that 2d sprites flip around, they have always done shamelessly so, and now that 3d is in full rage nobody expects them to start looking more realistic. I belive we should just accept the medium with all of it's quirks, and make them into part of pixelart's appeal.

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

[Helm]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

I made a conscious effort to not change the 'style' of the sprite, unilke Big Brother's edit. I guess my best isn't enough not not have 'Helm changed the style again!!'.

B.O.B has a lot to learn - not from me, generally - before he has to consider sacrificing correctness for personal aesthetic so boldly as say, a seasoned veteran like Frank Miller does. First you learn it right, then you break it. Your post in my opinion is counterintuitive for people who want to learn. If B.O.B. - or anyone - does not want to sacrifice anything of their 'style' so they can correct what are widely percieved as errors in their work, they should not ask for critique here. That's fine, I don't ask critique for most of my comics for example, and I'm fine with a lot of stuff that are usually considered errors in them.

I hope we don't derail this thread, but it's a valid point to bring up, I feel.


B.O.B: I really feel the new stance/perspective couldn't work with most fighter sprite backgrounds, it's a bit more 'from above' than the sideways that um, sidescrollers need. Pull it back a bit, not completely platformy like the originals, but not such a big height difference between where the two feet rest. Most of the other bits of editing I find agreeable for one.

[The B.O.B.]

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

   I give in so easily because every time someone critiques any piece I send in, it's always the same issue, different person. It's either A) " Blargh! Me no see detail in pixel piece! Me want Contrast, more Contrast!!!!", or B) " Your anatomy needs work...learn it...or die."

   When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change. Plus this is a forum for critique. I'm literally asking for help on how to make it better, every time I send something in. I still don't quite understand if I have a style or not, thats just not certain in my opinion. However, I'm always willing to improve, and if changing certain points of my current "style" will help others identify it as more pleasing to the eye, well then I'm much obliged to cooperate. But I can understand that the previous sprite looks a little better, than the updated version. I remember cringing while I changed certain parts. I'll be sure to keep the older version, and work on it a little more, though.
***EDIT***(Looks like Helm beat me to the punch of the explanation...No worries, his soul will pay dearly for interrupting thee after I thrash it about)

   Thanks for the in-depth critique! It's nice to finally hear some body who wants me to keep the style, for a change!

[im9today]

I don't think adding nipples and ears detract from style any. I think your new version looks much better personally, although I don't see why you added a hole to the cloth, and I think the 'tattered tape' looks better as the one strand in Big Brother's edit and would be a hell of a lot easier to animate or reposition if you do anything more with this.

Big Brother's edit reminds me a lot of Fatal Fury Real Bout Special, really nice work. :3

[pkmays]

I think you'll have a good thing going if you keep the palette ramp idea and nix the black outlines (and yes, watch out for contrast issues). As long as you have a couple of colors (like the red in the drunk boxer, the bright yellow in the capoeira fighter) there should be enough variety to keep things separated and interesting.

I do like how big brother only used outline in the dark underside areas of his sprite, while pretty much eliminating any outlines on the upward facing highlighted areas. Might be something to look into.

[Conzeit]

When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change.

Let's just say I disagree on that account, that only means what you're being told is a pretty strong trend in the enviroment you're getting critiqued, to succesfully improve I belive you should (1) analyze whether this has a fundamental basis (2) wether or not it has anything to do with what you are trying to achieve.

Basically, I just want to make sure your progress isnt driven by people's critiques, you should drive it and critiques should serve only as a...positioning device :p in keeping with the movement analogy.

but I digress, check your PMs so we can have an IM chat.