The B.O.B.'s Dump: B.O.B. finally submits something new...

[The B.O.B.]

   So here it is. This is what really got me into pixeling. Along time ago, when I was younger, I decided to try and create a dumb little street fighter mock up. Over the years, I began getting serious with developing each of the characters. They literally started as stick figures, and progressed their way up from pillow-shaded characters, noisy/messy shaded skins and tones, anatomically incorrect figures, to this.
   Of course these aren't perfect, but I still love them for what they are: a representation of what I've learned over the past from watching others pixel artists, and their technique. I do understand that most these characters are desaturated, to almost being one palette ramp of hue/color. I kinda' wanted that with each of the characters, to almost have his own color to represent certain characteristics for aesthetic reasons. I guess  it's just to define that this isn't an SNK style, nor Capcom style, but more over, MY style. Have I achieved this?
   As stated before, this primarily started out as fighting game mock up characters, but I realized that they are too detailed at the moment to animate. So instead, when my artistic skills reach their peak, my dream is to make a comic of these characters, since I already have a basic story line, that I've also worked on since I was younger.(you wouldn't believe the dumb ass ideas I had when I was younger...) Not to mention, that these guys have been in my computer for about 6 months, and haven't had any other eyes on them.




and ladies section for the perves


All characters (c) of The B.O.B.
***actually, for any of you Final Fight fans, if you'll notice the 3rd to last character at the bottom of the page(the big, gorilla, looking fellow) is actually my remake of the second to last boss from the original Final Fight, named Abigail(the big Andore pallete swap character, that had white face paint...turned red, and charged at you when ever he was pissed)***

   If you notice, there is one character up there that people helped me with in the past. It looked ok, but you guys helped me make it better. So I was wondering, with the artistic knowledge just a-flowin' around here, is there any flaws with the character designs, or something else that could use some fixin'/editing?(understand that these characters aren't supposed to be perfect by natural anatomy, but if it looks too strange, then I'll be sure to work on it)

More crap:






ANIMATED WIP:












The fan arts!!1!(one):

[Souly]

Seems to be a lack of female characters. 

Anyways, I think these are all great.
The colors you've picked are just wonderful.
Each character has his own personality.

Except for the first two, I don't know why but they're in the same pose.
You probably did that for a reason.

But honestly, I love each and every one of these.
The amount of detail and characterism you've put into these is just amazing.

[Ragnarok]

Seems to be a lack of female characters. 

Yah, where are all the laaadies?

[Akzidenz]

Second image, top row, fourth from the left looks dangerously like Remy (SF3).



Second image, bottom row, far left is a bit similar to Earthquake from the Samurai Shodown/Sprits series. But not too similar.

First image, second row, far left reminds me a little of Hugo from SF3. But just barely. He's not blind or fat or clumsy.

Those are the only similarities I could find, though.

Overall, these are really impressive.. the only real criticism that I have is that the solid black outline seems odd. There aren't many (any?) good fighting games that use that method. It doesn't look ugly, by any means, but it makes them seem a little more foreign because it's outside of the vernacular.

I'm really curious about what the idle stances for some of these would be. Especially first image, second row, middle fighter. Is he a drunk?

They're all well-pixeled, but the stances for some are better than others. Second image, second row, middle is pretty bland. Second image, first row, middle just seems awkward. Second image, bottom row, far right is interesting.. but if this were an actual game, it'd feel really weird to play a fighter who always had his back to the screen.

Really nice work overall.

[im9today]

Except for the first two, I don't know why but they're in the same pose.
You probably did that for a reason.

I think they are using capoeira, a kind of almost dance like fighting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira

[The B.O.B.]

im9today: You sir, are correct. Also, they are kinda' the main characters of the story line. Hence the stereo typical study of the same martial arts/pose. They are by no means, however, palette swaps, or copies of each other.

@Akzidenz: My character does bear resemblance to Remy. In fact, I was playing SF3 when I was updating some of these, so you might spot some subconscious-inspired sf3 pieces. Wasn't trying to achieve an earthquake feel with the character you mentioned though. I was also using the black outline for each of the  characters so colors wouldn't clash against this websites back ground. In my file, they are actually without outlines. The fighter in the second row, the off-balance biker, is drunk actually. He uses a drunken Chinese boxing style, similar to those Jacky Chan movies(drunken master) The last character, the goth guy, is actually the antagonist, and his stance was meant to keep his back to the opponent. Kinda' like a nonchalant, egotistical personality where disrespect is shown to the opposite opponent, by not facing him.

And yes, I know there are no female characters listed here...I do have some in my files, but I'm not done fully creating their designs.

Thanks for the critiques folks!

[Ryumaru]

last one in the second row and the two last ones are my fav.
sure there are many nitpicks to be made, but with this kinda stuff, its not really worth it. i know you said you werent going to make any animations, but how about some backgrounds? a mockup would be uber sweet.

[Akzidenz]

@Akzidenz: My character does bear resemblance to Remy. In fact, I was playing SF3 when I was updating some of these, so you might spot some subconscious-inspired sf3 pieces.

Yeah, I kind of figured - top image, top row, far right reminds me a lot of Alex, even though the character and fighting style are obviously different. The ninja right below him seems very Ibuki-inspired, down to the palette, but that sort of poofy-pants ninja character has been around forever so it doesn't really feel like you're copying (and the stance is really interesting and different). Top image, top row, second from left is practically a Capoera version of Sean, but I think it's mostly due to the palette. The actual design of the character is worlds apart.

I don't know if the average person would notice that kind of stuff, though. I think it just sticks out to me because I've been playing 3rd Strike for years.

[im9today]

I see Sagat and Venom (from Guilty Gear, not the Marvel Venom :x) types too. But I think overall these are very different designs than you see in Japanese fighting games, and that's refreshing.

[Feron]

i think the trousers on the last guy in the first row are the best trousers ive ever seen.

my favs are the first from the 4th and 5th rows.

i think your use of low color counts per sprite is actually amazing, especially on the two sagat look-a-likes!

Got anymore hidden works you like to share, after all this is your dump...

[pkmays]

I do understand that most these characters are desaturated, to almost being one palette ramp of hue/color.

That really isn't a problem, persay. The problem is, with so many similar colors, you'll have to rely on contrast more since you aren't using such a wide gamut of hues. Many of these loose a lot of clarity from lack of contrast. Hands get lost inside bodies, legs lost behind capes, facial features lost inside heads. I personally love what you've done with the character designs and matching color schemes, but most of the palettes suffer from a lack of contrast.

One general issue I have is with the inconsistent shading and detailing of muscles. For example, 1-5, 2-1, 3-3, and 4-2 have very soft lines and shades to define the muscle, whereas 2-4, 4-1, 5-3 and onward are much sharper. Lots of black lines also give the muscles a harsh segmented insectoid Dragon Ball Z look. No me gusta.



This one has some of the harshest details from the pieces I've seen, which is unfortunate, because it also has some of the strongest line art. The thing that really kills it for me is the amount of dark black lines within the sprite. I like the black around the perimeter of the sprite, and black lines can be an important asset to clarify overlapping limbs with palettes this specialized.

My edit for the most part just lightens up most of the internal black lines, and tweaking the contrast while trying to stay true to the original. Using contrasty shades does just as good a job as black lines do, and it doesn't make the details nearly as busy. The fingers where dissapearing in the pants, so I also upped the contrast for clarity. Also made some drastic changes to the shading of the arm, so it's readable as cybernetics. (Although I did lose the sheen. You could probably do better.)

Also, I HATE flat feet on large fighters. It looks horribly amateurish. A lot of effort goes into making a fighter sprite "pop" and convey volume, and flat feet ruin the whole effect for me. The previously posted Remy sprite is a bad example because he actually has the flattest angle to his stance in 3rd Strike. All the other Street Fighter 3 characters have a much steeper angle on their feet. If flat feet are intentional and you're going for some sort of old school look, keep the angle. Otherwise I'd highly recommend you give a slight slope to everyone's stance.



This piece suffers from the exact opposite of the first: not enough internal detail/contrast where it's needed. For the edit, I attempted to make the skin and shirt clearly distinguishable from the jacket and pants. Jacket sleeves and pants have folds that flow with the limbs. Hair, while probably not correct according to the original design, is readable and doesn't mix in with the red shoulder thing. Buckles and straps pop more, and no more flat foot.

Another inconsistency is lighting. For the most part, it seems to become from the top right, although on several characters it looks like its coming directly from the left. Putting the light source to the side effectively forces one half of the character in light, the other in shade, split down the middle. It also gives a pillow shaded effect in some areas, most noticeable on the torso and legs. The traditional top light source tends to make for a more readable character, IMO. Limbs especially seem more readable when an arm or leg is extended horizontally.

Anyway, despite all the criticism, I actually love the hell out of these. The ninja, especially, tickles my pickle.

[Akzidenz]

Third Strike's characters are about half-and-half when it comes to their idle stances having feet that move in z-space, but all of them make use of it in their animations. It seems intentional, though - the stiffer, sturdier characters have flat feet (Shotos, Remy, etc) while the larger gangly characters and the more fluid characters try to break the 2D plane more.

Elena's probably the best example out of all of them - the sort of space that's used in her animation would look really beautiful on a number of your sprites, especially the capoeira fighters or drunky:

[Joshua]

Dude, very impressive. I love the brownish palettes.

[The B.O.B.]

First image, second row, far left reminds me a little of Hugo from SF3. But just barely. He's not blind or fat or clumsy.

@Akzidenz: I missed that. Actually, the Giant Native American Indian/Wrestler(gotta love stereotypes) is blind, which is why his back is an almost facing the right to the opponent...I thought a blind wrestler would be a good spin off from the normal everyday wrestler variations.

@pkmays: Wow, those are great edits. It's funny though, cause you are the billionth person to tell me that I need to up my contrast. I don't really know why it ends up that way. Might be the way my cpu is set up with resolution, or brightness...might just be me. I'll try fixing it up. By the way, I also have noticed that all my characters seemingly have flat feet. I don't like such generic positions like that, but I have much trouble trying to capture the proper perspective of feet facing downward sometimes.

   My edit for the most part just lightens up most of the internal black lines, and tweaking the contrast while trying to stay true to the original. Using contrasty shades does just as good a job as black lines do, and it doesn't make the details nearly as busy. The fingers where dissapearing in the pants, so I also upped the contrast for clarity. Also made some drastic changes to the shading of the arm, so it's readable as cybernetics. (Although I did lose the sheen. You could probably do better.)

   Actually, pk, they aren't robotic arms. They are, more-over, synthetic plastic arm guards, that help protect his wilted arm, like the material used for Knee braces that linemen wear for football.(although some of it may be made of metal, there is no electricity involved...)That's the main reason that part of the arm is so dark, with a smidge of "sheen". Also, I think I might have confused people with this character. He is not a robot at all. I'm not sure if you accidentally see his face as a metal jaw, or something, but to clarify, his right eye is scarred, and completely black due to mistreatment, and he actually has a goatee....
   But again, thanks for the amazing edits. It was a great way to help me see just how bad the contrast issue was. I'll see if I can update some of the characters when I get some down time...(work sucks balls)

[Akzidenz]

@Akzidenz: I missed that. Actually, the Giant Native American Indian/Wrestler(gotta love stereotypes) is blind, which is why his back is an almost facing the right to the opponent...I thought a blind wrestler would be a good spin off from the normal everyday wrestler variations.

Hahaha.. don't sweat it. I didn't figure out that Hugo was blind for close to a year after I started playing. Pretty cool that you had the same thoughts as the creators of SF3, though.

[The B.O.B.]

And now we have a ladies section, for the gentlemen to play with...



Her character is supposed to be a stripper, in a cow-girl gettup'. I understand about feminism and stuff, but why beat around the bush ya know. Would help lots if you fellas could help me improve on anatomy a bit, seeing as how last time, you really helped me with the other female fighters I posted.

(I'll be awaiting the scoffs, and upturned noses to my stereotypical fan-serviced, half-naked lady banter...)

P.S. Akzidenz, I did not know Hugo was blind. I noticed he was the only character with his eyes closed half the time, and how they were pure white when opened. Never knew the poor, big guy was blind though. Crazy. Him and Urien(everyone's favorite over-tanned, thonged, master of disaster) were always my favorites. Though I'm pretty sure my skillz are pretty rusty at the game now.(I also read in rottentomatoes.com, that capcom was planning to redo another movie variation of Street Fighter, centering the plot line around Chun-li...Hope it doesn't bomb like it's ultimate crap-ass Van-Damme predecessor.)

[Akzidenz]

P.S. Akzidenz, I did not know Hugo was blind. I noticed he was the only character with his eyes closed half the time, and how they were pure white when opened. Never knew the poor, big guy was blind though. Crazy. Him and Urien(everyone's favorite over-tanned, thonged, master of disaster) were always my favorites. Though I'm pretty sure my skillz are pretty rusty at the game now.(I also read in rottentomatoes.com, that capcom was planning to redo another movie variation of Street Fighter, centering the plot line around Chun-li...Hope it doesn't bomb like it's ultimate crap-ass Van-Damme predecessor.)

Yeah, someone pointed that out to me once. I don't know if it's official SF canon, but if you look at all of his animations it makes sense. Also, his girlfriend/ho, Poison, is a transsexual (and that actually is canon, believe it or not). Shame you don't live in California, we could've thrown down. My main character's been Oro for over a year now, I'm finally getting to the point where I don't get my ass handed to me by the pros 10/10 matches. Urien's crazy fun though, and a bitch to play against.

[baccaman21]

superb material here BOB old bean... beautiful rendered...

one thing I would say aside from the outlines (which has been dealt with) - is purely an issue regarding the designs... I think... I really do think... that these would take a fucking age to animate were they to be incorporated fully... why am I saying that? Well... primarily it comes down to amount of peripheral items or elements that each of these fighters have... I know from experience that the more stuff you add... the longer each seuqences takes to create as you have to do additional passes for each element...

Suffise to say I doubt you'll get round to doing a full suite of fighting actions for them?... or will you? (nah... I doubt it ) but if you were... I think you'd have some fun...

Some great stuff here though... one of the things I never got round to doing was a bunch of fighters... good work fella!

[CrematedPumpkin]

i think the trousers on the last guy in the first row are the best trousers ive ever seen.

I have to agree; those are very nice trousers. They are very poofy.

The females section isn't quite as appealing in terms of artwork, but that's just me. Very, very good overall.

[Ragnarok]

I'd just be the last man, or the second woman. Oh, and pwn everyone. MUST... PLAY... GAME... NOW!!!

[Filax_666]

What can I say, these are too awesome...I've been waiting for you to show them since you first mentioned them, in an old topic. I don't think I could have been more amazed

I really liked this character, but I thought he could be a little improved with some more refining and pallete tweaking (the latter did not come out as well as I expected, but still...), so I did an edit...


I think the only thing that's missing is a bit of tweaking here and there, and maybe a few changes to one or two concepts. Give them the chance and they'll be amazing
Oh, and more ladies.

[Sherman Gill]

The second lady is my favorite .
Random criticism (Using coordinates):
1:1: The flowy cloth thing coming out of his pocket, the curve on the bottom is kinda weird.
1:2: something with this guy's stomach is really weird, hard to tell.
1:4: This guy's leg muscles are really well defined, being that he's wearing semi-loose pants.
3:1: The... Bulb on the back of this guys leg is just plain weird.

[Helm]

There's a lot that could be said, but I always have trouble critiquing lots of art at once. B.O.B, do me a favour. Post ONE sprite. One which you think is your strongest. And then prepare for critpain.

[The B.O.B.]

   Ahhh, the infamous Helm post. Always a rarity find praise in your posts my friend, but nothing I can't handle. First, let me tend to past issues, if I may:
 


pkmays: Alright, I decided to take a look at him, and up the contrast on the guy, as well as outline the hand so it is better visible and distinguishable towards the viewer. Also, I brightened up the red on his clothes to make it stand out more, and gave him a tiny beer pudge on his belly.(the top portion is just the underlined sprites, and the bottom is without) I hope it improved a wee bit.

And now...Helm:

   Oy, choosing one sprite that I think is the strongest is extremely hard for me, since; 1) I've worked on all these for a long ass amount of time, and can't tell which I did the best on, and 2) no matter which I think is the best, I'm pretty sure you'll have loads to harp on it about.
   Despite these personal issues, I have a clue as to whom I should bring out. And it's not like I'm coming into battle without armor here, since I'm fully aware of several issues that would be brought up before submitting them, such as anatomy issues(several have longer upper torsos), a definite Contrast issue(actually, this trait is apparent in all my works, and I'm still trying to find out why I'm doing this), terrible female anatomy, busy-ness in small areas that are too hard to define, and others. Not to mention, an expectancy of advice to go back and study anatomy a bit more. But I'm a man of my word, and my word is to get better, none the less. So I choose this warrior to send into the lions den:



So...rip it apart, I'm ready.

[ptoing]

Just wanted to say that most if not all of Elena's animation is rotoscoped... badly.

[The B.O.B.]

   Well Ptoing, I wouldn't say it was done that badly. I mean, any one who is deep into pixeling can see what is and isn't pixeled by hand. Well, purely speaking for myself, when I first saw her Ginga(what capoeristas refer to as their idle standard movement) I knew that it wasn't pixeled by hand purely,(and loads of random pixels popping out of her outline)due to loss of detail of her digits. She practically has no fingers or toes during her animation, which is a big clue. That, and the fact that her head in the Ginga looks pasted on to her fluid body. Still though, I tend to over-look these small details, when she is such a fun character to play with.

   Also, in pixel art, WHEN IS rotoscoping a good thing, considering pixel art is "supposedly" made up of strategically placed pixels? Just wanting to know since you have a more experienced background, and if this is "bad", than maybe you might be able to present some examples of a job better done than presently mentioned to these virgin eyes...

[Helm]

Okay. This'll be long.



Colors:

Okay, from the top. You need two distinct ramps if you want to have clothes on your characters. Why is that? It's because if you use flesh shades on clothing, usually it just looks as if the clothing is full of holes and the flesh is showing below.

Secondly, it's not a bad idea to have a fighter wear complementary colors, just makes it more interesting than the single color hue palettes you've got going.

Finally, if you're going to have a bright thing somewhere, why not use the bright shades for highlights on the flesh? This isn't going to be animated anyway (or if it is, there's no point to cut corners, you've got a painful animation to do anyway) so the extra detailing is okay.

Subtle hue shifts are a good idea.

Lighting:

As it was mentioned, lighting a sprite from a side is not a good idea in fighting games, because when they turn around... does the world flip its lightsource too? This is a good reason to keep to vertical lighting and not horisontal ones. You might get away with a few degrees, but I'd watch it. I didn't adress this on the edit as much as I could, but you should keep that in mind anyway.

Contrastwise, the full-camera-flash white on the pants really isn't the best idea in the world, but it can work once in a while. If you find yourself doing it too much, you're basically going to tire eyes out and make more subtle speculars get lost in the whitewash.

There's no segmentation on the human body, no matter how packed you are which I think would deserve a black line. A black single dot here and there is fine, as is a full line and where a limb is over a torso or somesuch. But otherwise I think it's too much. Only when darkness contributes should one be used.

Anatomy and posture:

The was no ear.

Hands needed a lot of work, legs are too fat around the ankles and the feet a bit malformed.

A few invented muscles in the arms, and the connection between chest and shoulderpad a bit vague.

Neck tendons that connect to the head invented.

The back foot was in a bit of an impossible position given the 2d perspective. Even the one pixel difference I've kept seems wrong. I'd suggest losing the flatfootedness as told to by pkmays also, but I've kept it for the purposes of the edit.

People have nipples.

Detail work:

the armors in the hands are a bit too busy still. Simplifying is important for something to read well fast, as it should in such a sprite.

Usually, groups of threes are better than groups of twos, but I decided to simplify more on the various cloth tendrils being hit by what only could be a large fan throwing strong winds at the fighter. Also an issue. When the sprite turns around, does the direction of the wind also?

Remember that in shadow things aren't as detailed.

[ptoing]

Good crit there Helm.

About the rotoscoping, I have not seen a good example in pixelart, but it could be done well. The thing here is that rotoscoping is not as easy as it seems, in normal animation as well. So if someone does it who has not much clue of general animation it's highly probable to get the same kinda errors as in lots of Elena's anims. Namely "frying lines" and popping up of detail.

[Helm]

check out Flashback for rotoscoped-bases that are then tended pixel-by-pixel.

[ptoing]

check out Flashback for rotoscoped-bases that are then tended pixel-by-pixel.

*smacks forehead*

[baccaman21]

mission impossible?

barbarian?

[big brother]

Here's my take. Yeah, I know, I totally raped the style (although I think it might be easier to animate this way). I did this mainly to illustrate depth, color (since it's a sprite, it should look distinct from the others and stand out from the background), and the palette. If you want to shift colors for alternate schemes (necessary for mirror matches), you want to keep the regions separate (resist the urge to unify) by using a single ramp for each.

[Ryona]

Lovely sprites, B.O.B.! 
Each one of them has so much character and style. And I really love the subdued colors. Gives them a nice, dark, gritty feel.

The only thing that stood out as looking odd to me was the female fighter with the swords. Her swords look like they're going through her thighs. Maybe a subtle line to seperate them might be good.


It's really amazing hearing how they started out as such a simple idea, and such simple sprites into the gorgeous masterful pixel wonders they are now. And I'm also very interested by your idea of creating a comic to host these cool characters of yours. I'd so love to see that. 

 

[The B.O.B.]

UPDATE:




   Thanks to some advice from Helm, Big Brother, and others, I've decided to update the character, for better or for worse. After a hard look at the anatomy of the character, I noticed it, as well as the perspective was broken(which again, I would like to reiterate that I break perspectives for a living...). His body looked as if it was twisted unnaturally, and shifted towards the right.
Here are the changes, that I can remember:

*So I just shortened him down, moved the front leg towards the viewer a little more to gain a better perspective of the ginga(as well as trying to get rid of the flat feet, to gain a better plain of movement)
 
*Gave him a little roll of fat to show some strain in the movement
 
*Tried separating the palette a between the pants, and skin(still wanting to keep the notion of a single color that each character must retain, for story/plot purposes)

*gave him ears and others that I can't quite remember

***Edit***
* I just noticed he looks off balance in this point of view...does anybody else notice this?

   By the way, Big brother, I loved the style you put the character in. The way the feet and shoulder was depicted, really helped me see the incorrect parts of my sprite. As for Ryona, I'll take a look at the Stripper, and see if I could tweak it a bit, so there is some separation between her leg and the swords. And Helm, the coloring on your edit was inspiring, but a little too hard for me pull off myself. However, I did understand each thing you said, and agreed with the majority of them. The only thing is I kinda wanted to keep the tattered black tape around his arms, as well as a bit more tatters on the pants, as it represents something to the character himself. However, if this new edit isn't as pleasing as it's predecessor, than I'll change it.
   Oh, and also:
 

People have nipples.

that's the greatest quote that I have ever heard. 

[Conzeit]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

if you're gonna add a different hue-ramp for his pants, I think you should use something more purplish. also you're gonna have to make your white pants a few notches darker, the arm bandages are looking pretty garish right now, that whole area looks like a big mess, so you better make sure the gray ramp has more tones for the dark bandages.

I completly see lo que decias about the new edit being off balance, not only that but it loses some of the composition aspects that make the pose so bad ass. in the old one the tigh-knee were in an angle that made it look like they were aligned to the forearm, and that gave the sprite much of it's flow. now its gone

if you're gonna shorten the leg, you should not change where the knee is at, you should move his butt and make him bend his back,change ANYTHING but the position of that freakin knee.

also...WHY IN THE HELL did you remove those shadows in his bicep and tricep? those were beautiful stuff AAAAAH...I think it's no mistery to anybody that 2d sprites flip around, they have always done shamelessly so, and now that 3d is in full rage nobody expects them to start looking more realistic. I belive we should just accept the medium with all of it's quirks, and make them into part of pixelart's appeal.

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

[Helm]

oh noes...the B.O.B is changing one of his sprites. I think it's a good thing, pero tu sabes como I like your style, te lo dije la primera vez que posteaste tus mujeres. I would prefer you stick to your own style rather than Helm's, and I have the feeling he would too.

I made a conscious effort to not change the 'style' of the sprite, unilke Big Brother's edit. I guess my best isn't enough not not have 'Helm changed the style again!!'.

B.O.B has a lot to learn - not from me, generally - before he has to consider sacrificing correctness for personal aesthetic so boldly as say, a seasoned veteran like Frank Miller does. First you learn it right, then you break it. Your post in my opinion is counterintuitive for people who want to learn. If B.O.B. - or anyone - does not want to sacrifice anything of their 'style' so they can correct what are widely percieved as errors in their work, they should not ask for critique here. That's fine, I don't ask critique for most of my comics for example, and I'm fine with a lot of stuff that are usually considered errors in them.

I hope we don't derail this thread, but it's a valid point to bring up, I feel.


B.O.B: I really feel the new stance/perspective couldn't work with most fighter sprite backgrounds, it's a bit more 'from above' than the sideways that um, sidescrollers need. Pull it back a bit, not completely platformy like the originals, but not such a big height difference between where the two feet rest. Most of the other bits of editing I find agreeable for one.

[The B.O.B.]

This might be controversial to say or something, but I think it's OK to make something stylized and wacky looking if you chose to do consciously, I mean I dont think anyone ever told frank miller that humans dont really have as many wrinkles as Marv, or that his shoulders were way too wide...so nobody should give u trouble about drawing a nipple-less guy if that makes him look better. what upsets me isnt that people tell you that, obviously everybody has their own preferences, but why are you so quick to give in?

   I give in so easily because every time someone critiques any piece I send in, it's always the same issue, different person. It's either A) " Blargh! Me no see detail in pixel piece! Me want Contrast, more Contrast!!!!", or B) " Your anatomy needs work...learn it...or die."

   When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change. Plus this is a forum for critique. I'm literally asking for help on how to make it better, every time I send something in. I still don't quite understand if I have a style or not, thats just not certain in my opinion. However, I'm always willing to improve, and if changing certain points of my current "style" will help others identify it as more pleasing to the eye, well then I'm much obliged to cooperate. But I can understand that the previous sprite looks a little better, than the updated version. I remember cringing while I changed certain parts. I'll be sure to keep the older version, and work on it a little more, though.
***EDIT***(Looks like Helm beat me to the punch of the explanation...No worries, his soul will pay dearly for interrupting thee after I thrash it about)

   Thanks for the in-depth critique! It's nice to finally hear some body who wants me to keep the style, for a change!

[im9today]

I don't think adding nipples and ears detract from style any. I think your new version looks much better personally, although I don't see why you added a hole to the cloth, and I think the 'tattered tape' looks better as the one strand in Big Brother's edit and would be a hell of a lot easier to animate or reposition if you do anything more with this.

Big Brother's edit reminds me a lot of Fatal Fury Real Bout Special, really nice work. :3

[pkmays]

I think you'll have a good thing going if you keep the palette ramp idea and nix the black outlines (and yes, watch out for contrast issues). As long as you have a couple of colors (like the red in the drunk boxer, the bright yellow in the capoeira fighter) there should be enough variety to keep things separated and interesting.

I do like how big brother only used outline in the dark underside areas of his sprite, while pretty much eliminating any outlines on the upward facing highlighted areas. Might be something to look into.

[Conzeit]

When more than one person keeps telling you about the same issue, over and over, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt for something to change.

Let's just say I disagree on that account, that only means what you're being told is a pretty strong trend in the enviroment you're getting critiqued, to succesfully improve I belive you should (1) analyze whether this has a fundamental basis (2) wether or not it has anything to do with what you are trying to achieve.

Basically, I just want to make sure your progress isnt driven by people's critiques, you should drive it and critiques should serve only as a...positioning device :p in keeping with the movement analogy.

but I digress, check your PMs so we can have an IM chat.

[The B.O.B.]

Yay! Re-awakening dead threads!(equips anti-Panda ban shield)


   Well, this is a dump, so I guess I'll post different stuff on here from now on.
It's supposed to be a cutesy, gothic, worm-squid-mon....actually, I don't know what the hell it is. I just needed some second opinions before coloring it. It looks to me as if it needs more frames to complete the movement/right tilt so it doesn't look drunk. However, I don't wanna have to freakin' animate each individual tentacle again. Twas painful, it was...Any ideas how I could go about this before finishing?(calls upon the masters of animation)

[Larwick]

Awesome.
Because he's squelching/tilting to one side, id have him also squelch/tilt to the other. Personally i'd ignore the tenticles for now, cus they'd just get the in way for me. (One of them seems to grow, and almost have something invisible underneath it?) Also, perhaps try to curve out the lines along the centre of the body, so it doesnt look so flat. Looks cool though.

[sharprm]

You can just repeat the tentacle animation for the tilt to the other side. I think its looking good except i
dont think the lower belt should move down. Also I think the head should move a few pixels to the left
as it tilts.

[Xion]

The head remains flat as it rotates, but I'd expect it to maybe lower a bit on the left to show curvature.
And ditto on the "make it rock right."
Otherwise, looking good...
Almost too good...

[alkaline]

i like how you try to make everything as animated as possible - that's the way you give animation life. the tentacle movement could be more smooth though. also the belt thing on the bottom tilts the other way.

[Conzeit]

that's the way you give animation life.

that's the disney way...to give animation life. anime uses good timing and flashy movements. disney is barroque while anime is minimalistic.

but yeah, that guy is looking pretty cool...I can imagine his slipery shiny purple skin inside a goth-ish gear....its a very clever little design

I think this, SPECIALLY the tentacles would have been much much easier had you just made it in sillouethe and brushed everything in, I think its pointless to put so much work on an outline that is going to get ereased by the coloring anyway.

you do know that his left front tentacle elongates VERY noticeably as it whips around dont you? that also happens with the other tentacle...it isnt as noticeable, but there is something unnatural about the way it uncurls. see in the last curled frame, it is very curled but the first uncurled frame doesnt show that, I think that frame should show a little more tension (by making the tentacle's curves less pronounced) to relfect there was a quick spasm there.

hmmm there's little tricks for loopings like this, when you animate his head tilting to the other side you could have the tentacles drop some...2 pixels to the left of where they do now, if done cleverly it isnt obvious and really looks as new content.

for the tilting to the other side, you could have him move a little to the left while still twisted as he is in the end of the anim, and get straight still moved to the left, then slide back into the center. it's stupid little tricks like that which help make a loop look more lively

er....his face deforms as he twitches, the left side of his face elongates.

whats with the hair hanging of the right side of his face? why does it move up like that when he leans to the right?

[The B.O.B.]

Aaaannnnddddd, here's some of the pieces that ran through my head during the competition. Some were ok, others were plain shit. And some...just odd:



In my opinion the Easter bunny was the only thing that stood a chance of making it.

The orange thing sucked balls.

The green angler fish/porcupine was all types of crap.

I kinda liked the horned fellow,(the darkest piece) and the giant, sun-rock gollum, with the
orange/yellowish backdrop attacking Triangle village.

The leech was meh.

Oh, and in case any one is wondering, The monster in the gray, is a Playboy monster. It loves to attack young boys who are coming of age whilst they fap. It's like dangling a worm in front of a giant pirahna...I would have chose it to go through for creativity, but no one would have known what the hell it was,
unless I told them. And that was a must.

The bottom right corner was the last thing I was working on. I have no clue what it was. It was supposed to be blind, with a mutated arm with eyes to see it's prey. It's eyes were replaced with horns. Too messy to be sent in, nothing in it is readable at all. Just a failure, to be blunt.

Whelp, that's all folks. Pixel with ya' later!

[Conzeit]

I was really surprsised about the contrast in your piece BOB, the broken outline problem wasnt even in the pixeling, it was in the extremely exagerated lightness jump from the outline to the darkest shade. it seems like it's desperately trying to cover every single spot of the canvas therefore I dont really like the composition. The design is kinda MEH too..reminds me of those cartoons that started showing up imitating TMNT like Motor Mices Bikers from Mars(or whatever) and Street Sharks

Easter bunny defintively looked better than the biped thing with gougy eyes, the porcupine and that weird thing at the right-botton most corner.

I belive every other monster is if not superior atleast equal to the easter bunny, because of the dramatic pose and the hi contrast (I'm a contrast addict) I like the Playboy demon the most. On a second spot are both the green worm, and the golden fog thing, in the third place is that brainiac thing on a blue background, because although the pallete isnt very good I like it's design best from them all.

if I were you, I would have worked on the golden fog thing (which I now realized is actually a scene of a bull creature invading some town) it just needed a little more clarity and dramatic lighting on the bull creature (like what you have on the Playboy demon) and it would have been a really good piece.

[Ryumaru]

that demon is beyond bad ass.

[GOODNIGHTdestroyer]

BOB, you're definetely going to be a tough competitor if I beat mirre.

[Xion]

BOB, you're definetely going to be a tough competitor if I beat mirre.

You mean I will, don't you?

All competitiveness aside, these are great, The. That Angler/porcupine should be in the Chimeras activity, fo' rizzle.
And I am so glad you didn't submit the Sunrock Golem or Horned Giant, 'cause then I would have so been pwnd fo' sho.
Lol @ the playboy monster.

Seriously, though. Great stuff.

[Feron]

the horned giant is better in my opinion.  they all look fit though..

[The B.O.B.]

Update!
newer>>
vs.
older >> 

   Well, I forgot all about this little...thing. I decided to take some of the crits to heart. The tentacle on the right was growing far too much, so I shortened it down, and gave it a different animation. I also added a right tilt to balance it out. Not to mention, I gave it a squish to transition it a little better when squeltching from right to left. I couldn't think of any other filler, rather than reusing the blink frames again. Also tried to fix the belt issues, and some of the lines.
   Oh, and Conceit, the things on the side of it's head, aren't actually hair, but more over mini-tentacles. They are kinda' like feelers, or whiskers for dogs. They help sense things around them, and the creatures do have some motor function over the movement of them. I hope that kinda' explains why they seem to move in a different direction of where it's leaning. Than again, last time I tried to explain the way my mind works to you, you were basically a deer in the head lights, heh.
   Whelp, I feel it's base is done, and now I want to pursue the detailing. Any one think this should be tweaked a bit more? I'm open to suggestions!

[Conzeit]

to be fair...I think the concept of tentacles/whiskers are a bit simpler than your sense of morality..heheh.

I think the tentacles work a lot better now....the squishing takes the anim to a whole new level of cuteness/cartoonyness which is fine if that's what you want.

I wonder how you'll color it, I've always visualized him as a green monster with goth gear

[The B.O.B.]

Seeing as how I'm pretty much skee-rewed in the pixelation competition, I was thinking I might have a shot of slugging it out for the blood and glory at the pixeljoint competition. The subject is Chinese new years, "the year of the boar":



I just don't know which to choose...Which one do you fellers, and womenfolk think is stronger?

Oh, and Conceit, I'm almost done detailing the alien animation. I'll send it in here when I'm done, to see what you guys think of the current colors I've chosen for it...

[Cure]

I like the non-yellow, personally.  But I'd suggest you didn't submit either.  Please.

[Feron]

Seeing as how I'm pretty much skee-rewed in the pixelation competition, I was thinking I might have a shot of slugging it out for the blood and glory at the pixeljoint competition. The subject is Chinese new years, "the year of the boar":

Well, looks like we both submited shit to the pixelator

Glad im not entering this compo - you and cure are close competitors on this one.

i prefer the yellow, maybe try and find middle ground?

[The B.O.B.]

Whelp, since no one else felt it needed any work, I've decided to detail it, and finish this so that I can focus on the next challenge. Here she blows:



I'm not really up for changing some major parts of it, but if they look that awkward, then I shall try my best to fix it. Also, do the colors seem too flamboyant? Maybe too shy, or drab? opinions, critiques...

[ptoing]

Nice animation, tho those stretchy highlights look odd on the side. And i would not have him stop swaying at all, just make him blink while swaying. I think it hurts the animation somewhat, if watched as a continuous slithering along.

[The B.O.B.]

El updato!



I added bounce to it, due to recent critiques. Also took away the green shadow on the left side of it's head( our left, it's right...)
Any other suggestions?

[Faktablad]

That looks much smoother now.  Great fix.

[Tsugumo]

Love this thread...that first sheet of characters rocks.  I dig the colors and designs and everything...I'd shit myself if I had to animate them, but they're sweet to look at. 

Also the tentacle guy is stylin'...I've always wanted to do a tentacle character animation just for practice but haven't gotten around to it yet.

- Tsugumo

[The B.O.B.]

Arise semi-dead topic, ARISE!!!

   I have another crapper for ya' folks! Seeing as how I can't upload my photoshop piece (cause photoshop and I are currently on the rocks, and thinking about divorce...thank goodness for the pre-nups) I've decided to pixel something...out of my comfort zone. It's a fictional bug. I just wanted an excuse to get out of the whole human anatomy thing, and go left field with it. I've also decided to scrap the technical side of things, and pay homage to my messy style of pixeling from when I first submitted things, as well as trying to do something big again. I'm not much of a Sci-fi fellow, nor do I know much about bugs. So any bug fanatics, or experts in the field would be best to help me with the realistic functions of this beetle, design wise. As in: do the body parts, and body/thorax structure make sense in an everyday bugs life.



   As far as design wise, the bug's horn atop its head serves as dominance and battling functions against other males. The two large hooks on each side of it's head also are a big part of the bugs main functions, as it's slightly big, and needs them to turn over males during competition, as well as digging underground. The hump above it's head, serves as a nasal passage for the beetle, and also as a snorkel when swimming. Unlike most beetles, this certain species has a beak like mouth, making it an omnivore; however it mostly feasts on berries. However, they have been recorded to have eaten other bugs, and small fish during times of famine.
   At this point in time, I'm more concerned with it's body structure. Does it serve a possible means of moving around for a large bug/beetle as this? Do the position of the legs make sense, as well as joint placement? more perhaps? Does the shell look like a real-life shell of present insect life? I've separated the head and body so you can see them clearly.

Any crits, ass-pats, or face slaps perhaps?

[Xion]

Looking awesome, The. Wikipedia's always good for refs. So, I'd say that, on yer beetle's legs, you need to make the bottomest foot part longer, maybe. And the first body segment - the thorax - should be shorter and the abdomen longer. I think bugs' legs don't actually come out of their sides, but rather from a "chassis" beneath the thorax, upon which the rest of the insect sits. The thorax looks like it's being overlapped by the abdomen which is a very, very strange (impossible) thing.
The head is lookin' mighty vicious. Nice, man.


....Wait, how big is this thing? It eats small fish?

[Panda]

This is coming pretty neat.
I must say I prefer the face on ver 1 though.
The only thing that bugs me (no pun intended), are the rounder parts on the face especially the big horn. It kinda ruins it for me
If instead it looked more rough and angled (like the two lower horns) I think it would turn awesome.
Anyway, looking forward to see more progress on this.

[Fool]

Beautifull head=). I mean - yak, wich would be a complimenteary from arachnophobic=).
Body seems a bit large for the head, but i might be wrong - not quite an expert.

[The B.O.B.]

   Damn...I checked this thread and saw it further being pushed down each time I came back. So I comfortable thought to myself, "well, since no one's saying anything, I might as well finish it." I just checked it, and saw 3 constructive comments. I salvaged what I could, but most of it was already too detailed to change by the time I read them.



@Panda: I actually wanted the big horn on the top of the head to be smooth like that, to camouflage as smooth twigs when hiding in yellow/golden forage. But I guess the machete type horn can be fitting as well.

@Xion: I also noticed that it's underbelly/thorax wasn't even present. I decided to add it (or at least try to). The fore legs are meant for digging, which explains the difference in thickness and design. They help the "tusks" on it's jaw when digging and fighting as well( The tusks are actually able to move from side to side, though not by much. This allows the beetle to unhinge or open up for food intake). The beetle is not meant for flight however. It has a hard exoskeleton, and flexibility is not one of it's fortes. However, the segments on it's upper portion of the exoskeleton, allow movement and maneuvering when stuck in uncompromising situations. Though ferocious insects, they are still extremely clumsy due to their large frame....

Despite slaving over this damn thing, and being about ready to quit it, I'm still open to some suggestions if they contradict some of the functions I explained above. So contribute, watch, or hate...I don't mind at all...(I'm quite open to rough edits as well  )

[Xion]

There's all this detail and then behind the head it just gets...
Bland.

[Faktablad]

Don't detail that green behind the head.  I like the contrast of the detailed-undetailed sections.

I foresee 60 hundred favorites on PJ

[Sharm]

The horn looks completely out of perspective to me.  Shouldn't we be able to see the front of it?  Overall it looks really awsome, love the shading.

[The B.O.B.]

   Due to the limited amount of submissions of the amazing skies activity/competition, I decided to whip something up as quickly as I can, to add to the madness. I naturally suck at background, and atmosphere, so don't expect much. I wanted to set it in an alien-like setting, with green fumes, that surround the the blue atmosphere. Sometimes, heat beneath the surface reaches the fumes in the air, and they light up the sky with fire like ferocity (I'm a dork...). I'm still not totally satisfied with it. The moon (is supposed to be fairly large, in comparison to the planet) still seems too detailed, when it should be further away. I don't quite know how to make it seem more distant, yet still recognizable as a moon, in itself, without blending in with the white clouds...Suggestions?

[Lawrence]

That looks excellent. The reason it looks so near is because you've beveled the edge of the craters which is something you'd only ever see if you were either right next to it or if it had big boomy craters. It also looks like those white clouds are behind it and are being illuminated that way; I'd make the clouds in front of the moon partially silhouetted with lit edges.

[The B.O.B.]

 I decided to take your advice Lawrence. I TRIED to make the clouds appear over the moon, and took some of the stronger blues off the moon to suggest more distance. I guess I'm done?

[Turbo]

Very pretty, this would be a strong entry for the contest. Interesting dithering on the top right, though to me it doesn't fit on an atmosphere context, would look better on a surface (glass, by example). Lower right seems a bit empty.

How do you choose and mix your colors? You're not using Paint still, are you? (i think i recall you mentioning it once) Would be very interested in knowing, thanks.

Also, the bug is awesome Push through the boredom and finish it (add detail to the shadowed neck, lower "belly", hind legs; clean up the lines, maybe some selective AA), it's quite worth the final effort.

[The B.O.B.]

Very pretty, this would be a strong entry for the contest. Interesting dithering on the top right, though to me it doesn't fit on an atmosphere context, would look better on a surface (glass, by example). Lower right seems a bit empty.

How do you choose and mix your colors? You're not using Paint still, are you? (i think i recall you mentioning it once) Would be very interested in knowing, thanks.

Hah, unfortunately, I am still using MSPaint (lay off everybody, I know it's the PREMIER of despised pixel programs... ). And some sharp eyes also; I started off at the top left of the piece and worked my way down, towards the bottom right. I actually did get lazy towards the end, and ended up using other dithering patterns that weren't concurrent with the original, dither patterns.  So, yeah....

Also, the bug is awesome Push through the boredom and finish it (add detail to the shadowed neck, lower "belly", hind legs; clean up the lines, maybe some selective AA), it's quite worth the final effort.

I want to call the bug finished. However, I too, noticed that it retains my unfortunate trait of unfinished pieces. I don't really know how to fix it though. Thanks for the response, though!

[Aeon Vision]

Elena's probably the best example out of all of them - the sort of space that's used in her animation would look really beautiful on a number of your sprites, especially the capoeira fighters or drunky:

That's not totally true, the artwork is great, and so is the animation.
But, it isn't capoeira, with capoeira you do the same motion, but you move your feet more backwards, even behind your other foot.

[Chaos Tayoko]

Love your style. I bet your really goos at animation, I remember your origami fighter. I wish i could learn. 

[Faktablad]

I decided to take your advice Lawrence. I TRIED to make the clouds appear over the moon, and took some of the stronger blues off the moon to suggest more distance. I guess I'm done?

Hmm, what I don't like about this bg is that all the pixeling is lovely, but it doesn't really read well as to what the shapes actually are.  I think there's too much blue to show that the planet is surrounded by these green fumes.

As for the moon, I think you can either have it detailed, or covered in clouds, not both at the same time.  Think of the moon going behind thin clouds: you can still see a white circle, but you can't see anything on the surface.

[The B.O.B.]

Holy, moleman! Bob's doing fan art again?


***Edit/update***


(forgot to give him his patch. Also, took the shine off his back pack, and changed the frantic head bobbing motion of the frontal view)

   I felt that I hadn't animated things in a while, so I decided to try at it again. After looking at my past animations, I felt my technique was too arduous, and I tend to wear away from key frames, rather than focus them. What better practice, than to create some 4 frame, 4 directional walk cycles. Yes it's the almighty mullet, Snake, from Metal Gear Solid. The funny thing is, I've never played Metal Gear Solid before. However, after whipping up my Dreamcast, popping in my nes bootleg cd, and looking through some old NES games, I saw MGS in there, and decided "what if I could make a wee 8-bit mock up, like this?..." Of course, this IS NOT using NES restrictions, or set color palettes. Consider this more of a cell phone mock up. I may decide, however, to make a mock up background. May be hard, though, as I've never played one game of the series, yet.(question: is it still considered fan art, if you've never played the game in real life? a little brain teaser for you to think about...)
   So...you know. Critique the living poop out of it. Or watch it...maybe hate it even. Who knows, I may decide to change it!

Still to come:

*will probably fix the strange, frantic, head bobbing of the frontal view.***(Fixed, I think...)
*will probably make crawl
*will probably make shooting anim., however I know that he uses different guns, so more fun for me...damn
*maybe mock up background. will help me with my tiling problem. Also need to research the game more, and look up some baddies.
*also may make little comic, cut scenes during in-game battle...
*I know I'm taking this way too seriously, for something that ISN'T going to be a game...but I'm bored

off-topic-sorta:
*working on a big piece again, that has nothing to do with this mock up. But I'm going this one alone. Trying to make it on my own steam...

[AdamAtomic]

hehe, MGS on the NES is just MG

its a good start, you may be a bit too reliant out black outlines for a piece this small though.  I think 6 frames would look way better than 4.  And currently the top/down views look like a completely different character than the side views.

[Cow]

I like the front and back facing animations. The side-facing ones seem to have that... strobing effect that happens a bit when you don't use many frames. If you want to keep the frame count, maybe you could move it a bit, so the leg in the back isn't in the same place as the front leg on the previous frame (or the previous frame after the previous frame, as I notice you have an inbetween now x_x).

[Conzeit]

OMG mgs fanart =o

Anyways...heh, did you base your little Snake on MGS3 art? I can tell u gave him a little eyepatch n everything =) nice detail on that aspect..remember, the eyepatch guy is Naked, the guy who gets old is Solid.

hm...looking at the motion as if he WASNT Snake, I can tell you have a problem with keyframes, all directions have the same problem, the transition phase frames have the logs too spread out, so much you cant really diferentiate them from the suspended phase frames. try to make the transition phase have the legs more centred, make the sprite all black every once in a while and check how it looks as a sillouethe.

Now, Snake has a very specific way of moving about, he's the original "sneak" guy, so the concept artist has always put an emphasis on making him look like he's "always infiltrating something".
  http://www.spriters-resource.com/other/konami/mg/display.php?file=http://www.spriters-resource.com/other/konami/mg/snake.PNG There's a MGS for GBC, if u wanna check it out, snake's pretty well animated there
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other/konami/mg/ http://www.metalgearsolid.org/gallery/index.php?gallery=1.%20Metal%20Gear%20Saga/Metal%20Gear%20Solid http://www.metalgearsolid.org/gallery/index.php?gallery=1.%20Metal%20Gear%20Saga/Metal%20Gear%20Solid%202 http://www.metalgearsolid.org/gallery/index.php?gallery=1.%20Metal%20Gear%20Saga/Metal%20Gear%20Solid%3A%20The%20Twin%20Snakes http://www.metalgearsolid.org/gallery/index.php?gallery=1.%20Metal%20Gear%20Saga/Metal%20Gear%20Solid%20Portable%20Ops there's some MGS art u can check...
u couldc heck some gameplay vids in youtube too....
 
NES Metal Gear, huh? NES MG happens to be a disgrace to the series, Kojima even personally said the port was fucked up, he even likes the non-canon sequel better, it "sticks more to his vision" than the port ninty peoples made.

[EDIT] HELM: Kojima didnt "disown"  the NES MG1 because as just a port, he just points people to the original in  MSX console. The NES version relayed on situations scripted so you'd get spotted, ruining the stealth aspect, THAT's what ruins kojima's vision, gameplaywise.
MG2:Snake's Revenge was made whitout his permission, and isnt cannon, yes. But it's actually the only reason he continued the series. Legend goes that he was done with MG1 and wasnt interested in MG anymore, then met one of the programers who worked on both games in a subway ride, the programer asked Kojima to make a "REAL" sequel cause he knew MG2Snake's Revenge's plot didnt continue the original plot points. Kojima then went and played the game, and while the plot wasnt right, he felt it was more respectful of his vision than MG1's port, because the gameplay kept the focus on stealth, so he got some ideas for a sequel and made MG2:Solid Snake.

in short, while non-canon, whitout Snake's Revenge there wouldnt have been a Metal Gear series...MG2 SolidSnake actually picks up some of the ideas from Snake's Revenge.

[Helm]

Actually I thought Kojima said 'snake's revenge' on the NES is disowned, not canon and he hates it. Sorry to OT.

BOB: on the south/north walk, keep the feet together. Snake touches as little ground as possible to avoid traps etc. It's just training for soldiers.

[Xion]

His up/down legs are fat, but his left/right legs are skinny. Make up your mind, you amorphous mullet-spy!
I also most definately do not loke the way his side-view legs just like, spaz as opposed to his vertical-movements' somewhat smooth legs.

[The B.O.B.]

-->

El updato!

*   listened to some stuff-a-roo, and moved his legs closer together, about one pixel distance between(else both legs would get lost in a sea of dark black-ish hues, creating doppleganger, "pogo-stick" Snake...)

*   I also agree with the inconsistency of the skinny to fat ratio with the frontal/back to side views. I tried to fatten up the side views a bit, but only enough to show movement. Any more fatter, and it'd be really difficult for me to make it more clearer that he's sneaking. It's already hard enough to tell as it is. I don't, however, want to change his key frames from 4-6, mainly for 2 reasons: I want to stay the course and force my self to learn key frames, so that movement is clearly shown, with the least amount of frames, and the other reason being that my frame count is already so high. Adding 6 frames would mean a surplus from 16 to 36 frames, just from the directional anim. alone! That's more than doubling them! But if they look too shitty, than I'd be content in changing them.

*   And yes, I noticed that in the shooting frames, his side view's head does not shake like his frontal/back do when firing. Ugh, I just can't figure out how to get a better jerk of motion from firing a gun, while making it clear in such a little sprite, without making it look like some cheap marquee select, shift selection action, or random pixels. Still learning...I may actually put in a crawling motion, explosion, and death anim. before I quit this guy.

   @Camu-I mean Conceit: Heh, yeah I don't wanna put you through the hell of explaining MGS story and canon to me again. I'm sure if I were to take a written exam, I'd flunk the poo out of it. And you'd be there standing in the door way, shaking your head in disappointment as I walked away with my head down, and tail between my legs.
   This may be a little off-topic Question, but: Is Solid Snake Naked Snake/Big Boss's son, or clone? I'm guessing Naked Snake(yeah, the one I'm animating) is the older one, but Solid Snake, from the MGS4 previews, looks old as crap. What the hell am I missing here? 

Any hoo, thanks for the critiques so far, they've really been helpful everybody!

[Helm]

There's something wrong with the way you've colored this small sprite and I've been looking at it for a while trying to figure it out. First of all, it's somewhat messy, but not dramatically so. Second, the lightsource isn't very defined, but again not a dramatic error. I tend to think the biggest issue with this is that from BLACK to any next darker color in your ramps, the next darker color is too light. The black therefore is not united and doing its work as shadow and segmentation, it just looks like messy blocky outlining that the artist hasn't bothered to clean up yet.



it's an information/detail issue at this stage. You shouldn't even try to convey pant creases at this res. A single pixel is about 10 cm at this res. Try to get the volumetrics to work, and then detail SPARINGLY and what matters. I took out so much but what did I put in? An eye, because snake is a spy dude, so he's looking around, and a single pixel of MULLET. These are important things, not pant creases and armbands that get confused with the gun.

[Conzeit]

I agree with Helm, except for the eye thing. Whole point of Solid Snake's original design(which naked's stems from)  was to look ok whitout eyes, because of PS1 limitations, that's the whole big deal with his bandana. Even in MGS4 with super realistic depiction the Bandana keeps creeping over his eyebrows, as if it were sticked with SUPERGLU over them ( I cant even imagine a way of tying a bandana that would make it so tight).

As for the actual edit...I think you over-used the black a bit, I would keep it to diferentiate body divisions (head, torso, legs) I belive the hand/weapon definition was a bit much

For the whole Solid/naked issue....

MGS1 has a really young Solid Snake in his 30's, takes place in 2005

MGS2 has a bit older Solid Snake, takes place in 2007-09

MGS3 Has a Naked Snake in his 30's, takes place in 1964

MGs4 Has a 60's looking Solid Snake that is in his 40's (since he is a clone, his cell deteriorated making him look older than he is, like real life clones) Takes place in 201x

so, to answer your question plainly, yes Naked snake would be the older one, problem is we havent seen his old self rendered in 3d in any of the games, while Solid's story HAS followed him into his old age. most likely because Naked probably called himself BigBoss by the time he looked as old as Solid does in MGS4

Oh. as a little bonus, here's a character profile of the guy you're spriting, the one actually used in the audition call to get the actors.

Male, 30s, Standard English. His real name is Jack. Naked Snake is the code name he uses in the VR Missions and during Snake Eater operations. He will later be given the name, Big Boss, and is the Big Boss of the future. 6'5" high, and his physical constitution are thick like 'Schwarzenegger'. He has more of an "all mighty", tough fighting style. He is a persistent, highly independant hero. FOX (Force Operations X), the special forces team that Snake serves with in MGS3, will eventually become the unique special forces team, "FOX-HOUND", formed at the end of the 20th century for solo infiltration and destruction.

[The B.O.B.]

El Yay, Bob's still in da game!

fighter made for pixeljoint contest(I rushed the poop out of this one, so exqueeze me for being so damn sloppy...)



I'll just call the character "Amalgam" since he is a mix of many Asian martial arts...
thoughts?

[Xion]

Ouch, man, that big white and orange thing behind him is just...Well, it's very distracting to say the least, and it detracts from the superfluous amount of awesome contained in the rest of the anim.

Sliding foot, maybe?

His leg (thigh) looks like it changes size.

Stretchy crotch!

The tail of the jacket shirt fighting uniform thingy...the tip of it...it stops for a sec...You see it? You see it?
Also, the background part of the tail of the jacket shirt fighting uniform thingy, the dark part, it's bottom seems to remain fairly horizontal, which looks wierd in comparison to the constant, fluid motion of the rest of the it.

One last thing: the way he just jerks back up when he reaches the bottom of his stance, without any kind of weight or momentum...it's sorta like an animation mirror, I suppose. Yeah, the upper half is cool, but on the legs, it's kinda blatant and stuff.

Aside from those thingsies, like I said, this reeks with the putrid stench of Awesome.

[Helm]

I am having much trouble reading this, even at x2 zoom and in animation. I believe you have to think about color and contrast in terms of readability when you make game art.

[Xion]

Oh, yeah, I had to open it up in my animation prog ta distinguish things well enough to crit. So, yeah, that might be a sign.

[Alucard]

The only major problem I have with it is the large cape?

It takes too much attention away from the character itself...The stretching crotch as Xion put it is also adds to that problem if you ask me. 

[Feron]

it reads perfectlety well to me...

it is a bit over-the-top with the amount of movement, but i think it adds a lot of life to the piece.

[Rox]

Eehh... Yeah, I can't really see what's going on, either. I love the color choice in general, but it's just... Ohh! There's his other arm! Well, that's definitely a sign. Arms should be visible. It took me two minutes to find his. So the round shiny thing is a shoulder then... I see. Okay, it makes a lot more sense now.

But it is way too busy. The entire upper body seems to blend in with itself in a very confusing way.

[ptoing]

I agree on the fighter being WAY too busy. It took me a good amount of time to figure out what's going on. If you would see him just as a silhouette it would look like a blob, perhaps a swaying alien tree, but not a fighter. Put any pro figher sprites from snk or capcom in silhouette and they are still readable.

[Zee]

-looks at thread for first time-
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
-jaw drops-
Buddy... I'm gonna be busy for weeks picking these apart to find what to do to make these things look this good.

[Feron]

Buddy... I'm gonna be busy for weeks picking these apart to find what to do to make these things look this good.

here, i'll save you the time:  Experience and Practice.  + the BOB has natural awesomeness.

[Zee]

How long has he been doing this?

[The B.O.B.]

@Zee: I've been doing this for about 4-5 years now...still need some work...alot of work actually....

Ok, so I don't have an internet connection, and my work place decided to cut it off for our work environment...cause they're giant douches. Any hoo, I've been working on this for a REALLY long time, and I'm quite sure there are plenty of problems with it...need the help..



I have an animated WIP, but still having trouble uploading it to the net, as the copied file on my cd isn't uploading properly to other cpus...I'll just have to wait to get an internet connection at my new place, till I can show you guys where I started, and ended up, which would most definitely explain the busy-ness...However, it still seems to be a problem, and I'm not quite sure how to simplify it to the point where you can still see the details....also, perspective issues mixing with comic book style warped scene will most definitely NOT be well recieved with you guys, I'm quite sure. Still willing to hear some opinions before I try and make this piece better...

Suggestions?

SUPER EDIT!!!!

animated wip, that I promised!

[Dusty]

The grass seems really bland, and I don't think the wavy shading is working with it.
Also, the perspective does have problems, mainly because some things just don't make sense, style or not. It's really hard to read a perspective on the background, as the backdrop pieces like the windmill and house seem tacked on as they're right on the horizon line.
Otherwise, awesome piece, love the colors and the atmosphere of it all. Ace stuff.

[ptoing]

It looks really nice of first sight, I think you could let some more light from the lamp shine on the big skeleton demon guy.
Also, why INRI. How does that connect to the piece?

[The B.O.B.]

Yar, after finishing it, I too noticed the perspective was "fukked". As aforementioned, I know of my bad habit of tending to make my pieces to "busy" to read. I'm still trying to learn how to break it, though. There are monsters detailed behind them, but this could only be seen by the animated wip I have. When I get the oppurtunity, I'll try and upload it for now...but again, any improvement upon the piece will be EXTREMELY delayed...

@Ptoing: I was wondering if there wasn't enough shine on the main Shadow leader, coming from the lantern. And yes, "INRI" does having something to do with the piece. It's a long story, actually(just look back at my fighting characters, and guess who the guy with the lantern is...). The man with the lantern was given the job of "carpenter" of the "gray" lands, by another carpenter, but NOT by choice. The previous had died in his arms, but not before giving him some detailed tips of the landscape. Any who, the older(deceased) carpenter was a deeply religious man who had repented his earlier sins for a life of good. His role-model, if you haven't guessed from the hints, already, was Jesus. The older carpenter always kept a bible close to his heart, and so when he died, the younger carpenter felt that he should go under the title of his role model, "INRI", which ROUGHLY translates as "Jesus, king of the jews..." In other words, the younger carpenter felt that if there was any uncertainty among the higher living as to where this old man should go, he would let them know by giving him a literal ticket into heaven..(like I mentioned before, the characters that I drew each have a story line, but this specific character has the lengthiest, regarding the subject of "leadership.." and what not....)

but yeah, that's the connection...

thanks for the comments...

[Helm]

It's busy yes, and everything is equal priority. I took the trees on the right more up to even the horizon a bit, that was one of the three edit points. The second is I removed some of the cloudage to clear out a few spaces for the eye to rest on. finally I did some rough fading out of the enemies as they go further down and smaller. The farther away, the less detail and glitter would be a good idea. Personally I'd go with a smaller moon, black night sky to just create depth better, but that's up to you.

I find a 'king of the jews' reference in what apperas to be a a fantasy setting with monsters and all to be a bit strange, personally.

[ptoing]

I dunno about the edit on the trees as that kinda makes the whole thing a bit stanger, more nightmarish.

To come back to the INRI thing, I know what it means, but noone would ever get your complicated story from looking at that picture. It just looks like a grave with jesus??? in it, in a landscape with a windmill and a castle??? how does that connect? Not speaking about the monsters and the dude. It's just all very very strange for a standalone picture. If it would be an illustration for a comic that would back all this up then I could get it but would still find it a tad odd. Like this tho it is just odd.

[The B.O.B.]

@ptoing: sorry man, there is supposed to be a long quote from the story of the characters I'm making. So in a sense, it is supposed to be an illustration. Yet I agree, one would definitely not get whats going on, unless I told them exactly. But yes, the castles and windmill's place of compisition were thought out, along with where the foreground characters were placed. This I most definitely meant ( It's in the characters dream world, if that helps any). It's a VERY drawn out story...I don't want to waste most of your time, though...thanks for the input...

p.s.: Heh, Helm, no, I'm not saying anything bad about the Jewish people, or any parallels of them being monsters either, in this piece. Hopefully nobody sees it that way...Great edit by the way, I'll try to spruce it up when I get home...

[Helm]

I never uh, read anything like that into it. I mean, jesus in fantasy setting is just odd because there's monsters about and also I guess magic and evil wizards and and and. Just doesn't mix in my brain at all.

[The B.O.B.]

   Finally finished this for the Pixeljoint competition(create your personal acronym for The B.o.b.'s name...). Rushed the poop out of it, so it may still need some work. I never really try to work with backgrounds, and warm colors/scenery, so this really was a tough one to accomplish. Not sure how many colors there are, but I'm pretty sure it's less than 64 or 32... Any who, I'm always willing to make it better. Any critiques ladies and gents?

[eck]

the flames on the creatures left make it hard to read the facial details.  you should try to improve the saturation and luminance when picking colors as well.  particularly in the face, the different colors make it hard to read detail.

[The B.O.B.]

   Actually, there absolutely no flames in this piece at all. It's just early sunrise, therefore everything looks orange-red. To it's right(our left) is just sand, which looks fire-ish, but is just picking color from the sun and setting, and the object to it's left(our right) is a boulder, that is receiving light from between the shadow of the beast, and the caravan. I was initially going to make the monster a little gray, and darkened as he is facing away from the light source, but that would detract from him being the main focus of the piece, so in a sense, that flaw(unknown light source) is already known. By the by, understandably a known flaw of mine is readability, so let me explain the piece if any one still can't see what's going on: The Behemoth/beast is just pulling the caravan to some destination on a cliff, that is overseeing a village down below it. I tried my hand at perspective, and scenery, by adding less detail as it went further off, as well as a large lake and distant mountains. (p.s., I know there is no strong or tight rope that shows the beast is really pulling the caravan, other than the loose roop attached to it's mouth, and chest piece. Workin' on fixing that...)

[Ben2theEdge]

Red sunrises aren't uncommon, but I'd replace the red with some shades of greyish pink and blue - not only will it look more "sunrise-ish" but it will make the whole thing a little less saturated/more readable and remove the illusion of fire.

[Dogmeat]

   Finally finished this for the Pixeljoint competition(create your personal acronym for The B.o.b.'s name...). Rushed the poop out of it, so it may still need some work. I never really try to work with backgrounds, and warm colors/scenery, so this really was a tough one to accomplish. Not sure how many colors there are, but I'm pretty sure it's less than 64 or 32... Any who, I'm always willing to make it better. Any critiques ladies and gents?

I really want you to finish this, it looks awesome as is, but knowing how much detail you can put into something I think you should finish it. Either way, I think the BG definitely needs more detailing, the clouds are a bit rough and are making the scene seem a little flat. Also work on the thing the behemoth is pulling. Maybe some more chains, jewelery and a action posed facial expression ( IE: mouth open, saliva flying out, mad eyes, etc.. ) on the behemoth to give him some character other than being a big monster.

Great work, i love it

[Arachne]

I love the design of the beast and all the detail you've put into it. The shading could use a bit of work, however. It looks as if you have another sun illuminating the beast. It should be in shadow for the most part. I also toned down the sand a bit.

Quick and messy edit follows.

[huZba]

Yeah, that fixes the problem i had with the original. It literally screwed up my eyes. Very hard to look at. There's so many points of interest fighting with each other. The sun drawing my eyes in the most. Now i guess the monster's face needs to get the attention, so somehow bring forward the face while pushing back the sun with keeping arachne's lighting conditions. Give hime slightly glowing eyes or something. Otherwise awesome job.

[eck]

i think that if you take arachne's edit, and increse the saturation on the beast, the lava-looking rock to the right side of it, and the face of the temple that is facing us,  it will look beter.

[WhiteNoise]

What about just putting something dark next to the beast, and leave all the other pixels like they are?

3 second edit (B.ush-O.posite-B.east, if you will):



Agreed, the rest is still fighting, but i don't see any real reason to change more than you have to

[JaViS]

Actually do you have a programmer?
I'm a videogame programmer and I can help you with that task

[The B.O.B.]

@JaVIS: Which task is that? 

I love the design of the beast and all the detail you've put into it. The shading could use a bit of work, however. It looks as if you have another sun illuminating the beast. It should be in shadow for the most part. I also toned down the sand a bit.

Quick and messy edit follows.

   Decided to take some advice from you guys. Like I mentioned previously, I'm well aware of the unknown light source in front of the beast, but I did it mainly so it could showcase it's colorful frill, and the fact that well...the piece is focused primarily upon it! But I'm hardly ever right with you guys so I did what was right, and decided to do as you say:



   I gotta admit, I'm not sure if you added any extra colors to it, but I know there are some colors that are too close to each other in value. I just decided to skip over that little fact, as it turns out, you guys may have been right after all. The yellow was causing readability issues with the affected spots on the beast/behemoth, and sand.(also, the top of it's frill is very thin. the little lines of red/orange are actually veins, kind of like when you put a light against the side of someone's ear.) Again, this was a quick work over, but to me, I seriously wanna' call it quits...Thanks again everybody!!

(F*ck! I forgot about adding the extra pulling device to make it look more like a beast that is really pulling a large caravan realistically.)

[JaViS]

@JaVIS: Which task is that? 

The videogame programming!

[The B.O.B.]

   So I've been looking back at my previous gallery, and noticed some of my old works. I can't believe how far I've come, and improved! I've noticed that I've been cutting down on nasty cel-out techniques, lowering and managing color count much better, as well as getting form much more precise. Not to say I've reached the pinnacle, cause there is still much to be learned. Any hoo, I was rummaging through, and noticed one of my pieces: "Joker's wild". Once I saw it, all I thought to myself was "Blegh! I can't believe people were fav'ing this piece of garbage." So I owe it to myself, and those who liked it to make it better.



   Right now it's a rough wip, but I wanted to address the obvious flaws. Still a little stylistic choices going on, but I wanted it to be a little more anatomically correct, while keeping with the black shadow/comic style. I'm still working on it as we speak, but what I would like to know, is what else is needed to make this fella' better. The card needs work, definitely, that I know. Maybe even the fingers as well. The face seems fine to me so far, but maybe you guys see it differently, and can help me make it better.

I would really like your input. Any suggestions/edits are extremely welcome!

[Dusty]

Well, one thing that stands out with the fingers are that they're in an impossible position. I don't know about the 'proper' way to hold a card like that(though I do quite a bit of card throwing myself), but I believe he should be holding the card between his upright index and middle finger; his middle finger shouldn't be bent. But if you keep his hand posture, the middle finger is extraordinarily long. Draw what you'd consider his finger behind the card and you'll see what I mean. His index finger is also bent in an impossible way(at least without pulling it back).
Aside from the hand, his teeth look way more 'squared off' when they come to the front. It looks more like his front teeth are flat, and that they just take a sudden corner and go back.

[The B.O.B.]

   Not sure, but I think I need some help on this. I'm trying to get better at anatomy, but not sure if it's a winning battle. I was admiring some of Norman Rockwell's art, and loved how realistic his paintings looked, yet they still had some added cartoony-ness to their emotions. Not to mention his character's emotions are instantly read. Not heading that far into the art spectrum, as I've yet to achieve the norm with anatomy, and perspective. However, somethings could be worked on. So far, had some great input at pixejoint, concerning the position of the arms, and how his skin's shading style seems to clash with the rest of the dithered pic( I was hoping dithering would be more for texture, but apparently, it must be fluent throughout). I suck with backgrounds, so take it easy on that dept.

   References include lots of google images, and photo idea obviously inspired by the great non-finisher of the biz, Miascuff'( linky-poo). Oh, and that's supposed to be a little cartoony/round bird(like 70's hippy stuff), and it's a bandanna tied to his boot as well.

   Oh, and to Dusty, thanks for the input. I just noticed that about his fingers! Gosh, I must be an idiot not to have noticed that! Just to let you know I'm trying to work on those issues that you pointed out as well. One thing though: could you elaborate with the teeth part? I'm understanding what the issue may be, exactly...

[Arachne]

The thing that struck me first is that you're drawing a lot of attention to the boot, which isn't terribly interesting, in my opinion. I think it would make more sense to add color to something closer to his face. Maybe give him some more pronounced irises? I'm not sure what's going on with his eyes at the moment.

Something about the perspective and the bird seems off to me too. Maybe move the wing a bit further down so it doesn't look as if it's being viewed from the side? I think the legs could be more birdlike as well.

Otherwise, I like what you've done so far. The worn photo look is a nice touch.

[Darien]

I'm not sure what the worn photo part of this adds to the piece.  in Mia's it works better because it the shows the two guys in a (mostly) conventional photo pose, and the agedness suggest some sort of dark family history or something.. if you took the border off of his I think it would lose a lot of its appeal, if you took it off yours I don't think it would lose anything.  Right now it's kind of weird with the yellow colors showing up, and I'm having trouble believing it's a photo.

I think his right upper leg seems very misshapen, it seems like you lost track of it while it was under his arm.  Also it doesn't feel as if his feet are resting on the street.

[Faktablad]

Very nice work on this, B.O.R.B.  You did a great job with the greyscale in terms of keeping everything from blending together into a single shade.  Great shading on the sidewalk and especially the curb.  The problem with the facial expression is that I'm not sure what he's trying to express.  Is he blowing smoke?  Saying "oooh"?  Is he surprised?  I'm not quite sure.

[The B.O.B.]

Update:

-->


Tried fixing some of the aforementioned issues:

1: shonegold at deviantart caught the slightly large left hand, so I shortened it a bit to fit in proportion to the body and other hand

2: Tried shortening the wing down a bit, and making bird legs, as Arachne suggested(though I'm gonna say that yes, the bird is not supposed to be realistic. It's kinda' like those fat round birds you see in those old 70's cartoons and posters...hippy love)

3: Also tried having the boot seem more realistically placed on the plane of the street

4: Changed the position of his left arm as well, as SURT from pixelation mentioned that it was in an uncomfortable position. Lengthened it a bit to better fit the angle, and shortened the shoulder. Also, I tried dithering the arms as well, as Setzer posted an issue with a lack of dithering being fluent throughout the piece.

5: I know it doesn't mean much, but I'd still like to keep the worn out photo portion of it. It's just a preference, I guess, and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm ignoring your suggestion, Darien. As fix 2 suggests, it's supposed to be worn out as two cultures intermingle with each other. Like the 70's bird with a new punk/rock/metal culture rising during the 80's. Though it's not that clear at the moment, and I'm not that great of an artist for people to notice it off the bat in general. But to honest, it's really not that deep of a message. Just a funny picture, that's all.

6:@Faktablad: the face was initially supposed to be nonchalant, as if he didn't mind there was a cartoony bird talking to him. Kinda' like eor(I think that's how you spell his name) off of Winnie the Pooh. Apathetic, I guess is the best word. But if you guys think he should pour more expression, I tried changing the eyes a bit, and widening the mouth, for a more shocked look.

7: I originally only wanted the bandanna to be yellow, as bandanna colors display more symbolism with gangs, and street culture. But if you guys think that something more closer to the face should colorful, than maybe it might make more sense to add yellow to the feather as well?(he's a bird in all...)

Don't know how else to fix the other issues. I wouldn't mind edits, though, as I'm more of a visual learner. 
Any thing else?

[Helm]

I'd lose the bandanna around the boot now, there's no symbolism involved there. The feather was a much better idea.

[big brother]

This is a very cool piece so far. I have a quick crit -- judging by the leg on the right, it appears like he's sitting on a high ledge rather than on a curb. It would have to be at least partially extended to break this illusion.

[eck]

contrast issues.
grayscale can help you get a nice grasp on lighting, but right now there are some flaws.

one of the things that stands out to me is the pants.  now i don't know what they are meant to be made out of, but it looks like denim, or perhaps leather.  either way, there shouldn't be that much contrast.  cloths tend to absorb light instead of reflecting it, so the highlights need to be toned down.  also, same problem occurs with the highlights along the edges of the shirt.

also, im having issues with the face.  before it was messy, and the newer version is an improvement, but it still needs work.  the expression is unreadable, the eyes are to circular, the chin is pushed back to far, the ear needs to be moved up slightly, and he has no neck.

finally, this isnt really a big deal, but there is a huge style change in the edge of the sidewalk and the road.  prehaps change it a bit for the sake of consistency?

[The B.O.B.]

contrast issues.
grayscale can help you get a nice grasp on lighting, but right now there are some flaws.

one of the things that stands out to me is the pants.  now i don't know what they are meant to be made out of, but it looks like denim, or perhaps leather.  either way, there shouldn't be that much contrast.  cloths tend to absorb light instead of reflecting it, so the highlights need to be toned down.  also, same problem occurs with the highlights along the edges of the shirt.

also, im having issues with the face.  before it was messy, and the newer version is an improvement, but it still needs work.  the expression is unreadable, the eyes are to circular, the chin is pushed back to far, the ear needs to be moved up slightly, and he has no neck.

finally, this isnt really a big deal, but there is a huge style change in the edge of the sidewalk and the road.  prehaps change it a bit for the sake of consistency?

   Hey eck, I read through some crits, and thought about it. I've never noticed that pants/denim absorb more light then they reflect, so I may change that in the near future. However, if by "highlights along the edges of the shirt" you mean the jacket portion, it's torn denim, which is whiter/worn out moreso than the blue portion of the jacket itself. However, if you just mean the black t-shirt, I can kind of see where you're coming from. However, I've tried toning it down, and it just makes it flat compared to the rest of the piece. Still trying to figure out how to give black clothes some more depth.
   You were right about the ears, but the eyes and chin, I'm not quite sure. I've seen many people with some not so pronounced chins. In any case, I made some edits with this newest version; widened eyes a bit, spread eyes out a bit more(probably looks worse, though), fixed mohawk, and added a bit more pixels to the chin, and only left the feather yellow, though I feel it lost something when I got rid of the yellow bandanna.(ugh, I've been artistically castrated!!)



by the way Eck, he DOES have a neck, that's just my bad artistry. He's wearing a dog collar, it's just hard to tell with it being black and white and all. He also has a bull ring in his nose, and earrings(gauges). And nah, I feel the curb and side walk should differ a bit in texture. I didn't want a smooth curb, at least in the dither sense....Any thing else? If so, an edit WOULD REALLY BE NICE...

Thanks again for the help, all...

[Ryan Cordel]

If that's his dog collar though, then it seems to wrap around his neck pretty odd. Seems to be more painted on than it actually being an object he's wearing.

[eck]

the jeans really are only an issue on the right leg (our right).  im going to try to do an edit on the face soon, although im not sure how successfull i will be.

[happymonster]

B.O.B. I've just gone through this thread and you have some great pixeling work here. But I see two things that affect every bit of your art:

1. You put too much detail into everything, making it hard to tell what things. It overwhelms the eye with detail.
2. Some scenes are so busy that the eye doesn't know where to look, foregrounds and backgrounds merge together. Different areas have the same colours, contrast or satuation.

As an experiment could you please draw something very simple without any real details. Then shrink it down by 400% and see if it is still easily recognisable and looks good. If not, work on the large version again until the small version looks great too.

I think that would help. I hope this proves useful, I wish I had your skills!