AuthorTopic: Stepping back as a mod  (Read 1147 times)

Offline Cyangmou

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Stepping back as a mod

on: August 10, 2018, 03:07:16 pm
For me Pixelation always was a about the craft and the art, not about politics.

For me it always was irrelevant which politic believes someone held and it also never interfered with what I was interested in -  the craft of the art and the preservation of knowledge. Also the safety for freelance artists and the business practices and games.

All I did I here as mod during the last 4 years I did in order to keep the knowledge as complete and accessible as possible for every member of the community (this includes members of every nation, skincolor and every background).

I can‘t tolerate to discuss with someone who aims a loaded cannon at me, with a very different view on how politicized Pixelation is.
And the outcome is in every case, even the best one, an annihilation of parts of the collected community knowledge and the remnants of the comm.

I am someone who thinks that knowledge, craft and interest in arts actually is more important than a personal standpoint of a very ideas and perspectives.
If I am getting forced to take a side, I will stand atill and say: for me the only thing of importance has been the craft, is the craft and I don't think that will change.

Now Pixelation has changed hands, but no information on it is available for me, I was poorly informed and Crow told me that chats are going on to which I wasn‘t invited either.

At this point it feels like I am left out.

The work I did for the comm feels also granted by the individuals who left this place long time ago stopped posting. They also haven‘t and didn't want to be in touch with the last parts of the active community here.

Now after stepping back in action, to put politics over crafts and just see only two sides – "their own" and "the enemy".

I neither can overlook the way this happened nor what the points of interest of the main discussions were.

My personal points of interest and Pixelation‘s obviously don‘t align anymore

That‘s why I step back and lay down my work as mod.
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Helm

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 05:25:11 pm
Pixelation is a place of learning, and as such it's not just about craft. It's about a healthy community spirit and an inclusive atmosphere. Tolerating far-right viewpoints, sexism, misogyny and bigotry of all types in an art community while just focusing on the craft is a recipe for disaster for a myriad of reasons. Pixelation is restructuring because it has to, because we can do better than this.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 06:37:45 pm
Pixelation has been a place of learning, for as long as I have been here.

Exactly because it is an art community, I personally feel all ways of thinking should be allowed to a certain extend in my opinion, as long as everyone has an idea that some borders exist.

In chats people are always talking more openly than in forums and discussions sometimes can get out of hand.

Considering myself as an artist I draw the borders for a community as wide as possible for everyone, considering that they believe in the core idea they are welcome for me.

Some people are more on a side of the political spectrum, some even show their believes off openly, I couldn't care less.
Some people are offended by slight sexist jokes, others don't even raise a brow with heavy stuff.
It doesn't matter to me as long as peaceful coexistence is possible.

Also if those political and religious discussions are going on in an area dedicated for where effectively nobody sees it, unless they explicitly want to partake, not much harm is done in my opinion

I let you have your own opinion, your standpoints, and your way.

I am just stepping back.

I am stepping back because I don't need to threaten a community which is based on a forum by saying if I don't get my way I will destroy huge parts of that forum.
Like deleting all my posts which I gave in with consent of my free will at each time of posting to the community.
If I'd delete those not only my posts would vanish but also all discussions and a whole lot of featured threads would get utterly unusable.

You can use that cannon as you want and point it at anyone you want, it's your good right.

Just don't expect from me any more time or energy.
You can build and restructure this forum the way you want and you can do for the community what I did the last years to the best of your intentions.
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline MysteryMeat

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 07:00:49 pm
speaking as a user of this website and a supporter of the new no politics rule... that blackmail thing there was and is an absolutely unacceptable way to have gone about it.

those were some really shtty tactics and I feel this strongly enough to voice this directly at you, helm.

restructuring is fine and good, but that better remain an even-handed flat ban on the topic and I don't want to be hearing word about threatening public art resources for your political gain again
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline Indigo

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 07:22:51 pm
Just wanted to say something about helm's threat.  I personally was not a fan of how that went down and feel like it was unnecessary for finding a solution.  But regardless we did find a solution, and that solution was in response to the actual issue we were addressing (and if I'm honest, also in response to damaged relationships in the process).  I mentioned this to cyan some weeks ago, that I'd be perfectly fine if helm decided to delete his posts in protest and that shouldn't influence anything we decided.  It didn't.

Offline RAV

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 09:38:32 pm
Just to be clear here, Helm peddled for years the Social Justice doctrine verbatim on the official Pixelation Forum.
Social Justice is by far the most murderous ideology in the history of humankind. I don't care what "good" it pretends to fight for.
One of its defining qualities is authoritarian change of society by threat of punishment.
Social Justice holds the all time high score record of mass murder.
It was by far the worst that ever happened to humanity. ever.

While there seem to be very heightened sensibilities on other forms of bigotry,
no people here that considered themselves liberal and good, saw an issue with that.
Precisely because there is no vivid and varied debate on politics from different perspectives.

So to prove your new direction away from politics and extremism, you reinstate mod powers of this guy,
and his crowning ceremony is the purge of large parts of whatever remains of the active community.
Alongside a new slew of moderator replacements that I assume are not exactly varied in their outlook on life.
If that were the case, the other ones wouldn't have to leave, and the new ones wouldn't join.
Obviously an infringement of libertarian core principles is going on,
such that most of all they cannot stay in good conscious to their believes.
Whether it is having more balanced politics or no politics,
none of it can be achieved with a decidedly biased staff of administration.

Not long ago, any critique at all leveled at Social Justice would have been considered Far Right.
Basically, anything that is not Far Left was marked Far Right, bigoted, etc.
We have seen the violence and bannings on our universities in recent years,
the suppression of any debate that isn't in total favour of Social Justice.
Definition on these offenses are anything but crystal clear,
which means the attempt of making them a guideline will be no more clear.

Serious debates of any merit can't be just "clean" and "controlled".
It is bound to have plenty off-shot trails, sometimes strange, sometimes uncomfortable.
and from a little community chaos and banter, interesting things can arise
You don't just go around and remove, you actively argue your point of view.
While of course there are limits to everything,
if there is one thing that Social Justice has proven most,
is that its sense of limit is excruciatingly bad.

Now, I have never been on discord, don't know exactly what's going on.
But from many other similar occurrences across society in recent times,
this restructuring appears top-down, from a small circle of enlightened missionaries,
presumably knowing what's best for the community, and what it should look like,
assuming infallible judgment, although proven plenty fallibly.

And going by this:
Quote from: Wes
Bigotry was never fostered or encouraged. On the contrary, conflicting opinions were welcomed and the debates (while heated) were often enlightening because of it.
The lack of bigotry was actually a highlight of the "politics" channel.
Some silly banter on occasion aside, even without having seen it,  I don't find it hard to believe this true overall.
It goes in line with many other false accusations and developments going on in recent times.

There is something to be said about maintaining the focus of an art site on art, not politics.
It certainly was not part of this public forum these days, and I personally didn't even know it happened.
The problem we have in universities now a days is certainly that it is too political in subjects it shouldn't.
But the difference is that this biased politics is forced on the students from top down,
it's not varied debates coming from the students themselves, it's one-sided doctrines given down by the teaching curriculum.
You don't just go around and shut down the people themselves when they feel the need to talk with each other.
And certainly processing issues of life from various angles, some less pleasant than others, is part of art.

But the War on People under the guise of "for the people", by a small elitist circle of administrators, has always been the hallmark of Social Justice.



Which brings us to the next problem, you say you realize that the forum model is out-dated,
But a major core reason for why is exactly its less strict mode of conversation. People can just speak their mind.
The more open models of social media are precisely more popular because they are less moderated/steered/controlled.
Yet you actually believe that you will revivify your community with more strict definitions on what people can talk about?
This is most of all what brought down both Pixeljoint and Pixelation. No matter what technology you migrate to, if this is your solution, there is no hope for you.
You might call any other place of brimming life too offending, your problem is most of all that you are too boring. You believe yourself virtuous maybe. But too boring.
There is very few people interested in that. You can hold your head high on that all you want. It doesn't change your problem. It doesn't even mean you're good and deserve better.

There just isn't anything interesting happening anymore here. shuffling around the administration and a fancy "new" atmosphere won't change that.
It's the regular people that do interesting things. a lot of questionable things for sure, but that's where life comes from.
And from all that brimming chaos and struggle comes interesting insight and advanced activity.
It develops bottum up, from the chaos of free thoughts interacting fearlessly.

If you want to turn this place into a Sanatorium, a sort of perfect care taking facility, that's supposed to "protect" the "children"...
well, guess what, not even children care about that anymore. They are busy having fun shit posting everywhere else.

That's what you really are competing with. It's not just your definition of Pixel Art that hurts you, it's your entire definition of "fun" and "life".
When you read back ancient threads on the PixelJoint forum, the atmosphere couldn't be more different than today. That's what killed it.

So does this mean we should all turn into trash talking shitheads? Maybe not.
But that you actually take so much issue with how things are _now_, that you need to "restructure" it into something even more clean,
honestly tells me you are a balls sucking twerk shit fuckhead idiot moron! with an attitude problem!

That and that any measure of meritocracy for advanced activity is replaced by political screenings.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 09:48:12 pm by RAV »

Offline Indigo

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 10:12:03 pm
what the fuck are you talking about RAV?

Your rant on SJW ideologies is precisely the kind of thing that has no place on an art forum.  I'm a die-hard, free-speech supporting, libertarian by the way, but that doesn't mean pixelation should be about those things.  Pixelation is about art and education.  Tolerating bigotry and antisemitism, or even political discussion at best, is antithetical to harboring a welcoming community for learning.  You can disagree with that if you like, but that's the decision we've come to.

Also the solution isn't to change much here at pixelation in terms of moderation.  Honestly there's not too much going wrong here other than it's stagnating and slowly dying.  The problem was the discord, and the solution was to disassociate from it.  That's it.  People can continue to use the discord all they please and continue their conversations about "less pleasant" issues as you say.  That's just not what Pixelation should be about. Those who left chose to leave.  No one was forced out.  There are no political screenings, but quite the opposite: a focus on keeping politics out.  You seem to be fighting quite the strawman.

Quote
Which brings us to the next problem, you say you realize that the forum model is out-dated,
But a major core reason for why is exactly its less strict mode of conversation. People can just speak their mind.
The more open models of social media are precisely more popular because they are less moderated/steered/controlled.
Yet you actually believe that you will revivify your community with more strict definitions on what people can talk about?
this is a very good point, and it's something we've considered.  In many ways, moving to this new format we would be embracing a less controlled style of communication, but that doesn't mean we can't have community standards about basic things like hate speech and toxicity.  The ways in which it would be less structured would be less focus on critique-only comments and embracing of just showing off art and one-liner compliments.  Less focus on the categorical breakdown of different types of posts - instead relying on more fluid hashtags.  This can all be good.

Quote
But that you actually take so much issue with how things are _now_, that you need to "restructure" it into something even more clean,
honestly tells me you are a balls sucking twerk shit fuckhead idiot moron! with an attitude problem!
the restructuring has nothing to do with making a sanatorium, but why the fuck are you resorting to name calling?  what's your problem man?  You're breaking our age-old rule that we've always stuck by: Don't be an ass.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 10:28:34 pm by Indigo »

Offline Helm

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 10:39:10 pm
I don't care or mind if anyone's disappointed with me for sticking up for a Pixelation that shouldn't allow bigotry, casual antisemitism, sexism, racism and the like on the premises. We have more constructive things to do right now than indulge in this empty drama.

Offline RAV

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 11:01:43 pm
Helm, I don't care or mind your interpretation of what defines these offenses and how they are punishable.
We have seen the rampant violence and destruction of the politics you advocated, and what people were unfairly destroyed.
There is no reason to trust your judgment on this, especially not yours, but at any case not yours more than others.
You are not the community. Only part of it. Well there's not much left of that for sure. So I guess it really is just you and your compatriots now.
And it was you again, who escalated this drama and restructuring over what is probably minor offenses. Fits your profile.

You will never live down the shame of having advocated Social Justice. I was actually willing to let you off the hook, but not anymore. Better ban me now too.

--------------------------------

Indigo, yet you reinstate a mod that made it a point in the past of bringing politics into this.
That's why I mentioned it. It wasn't me who brought up Social Justice. It was Helm. For years. And you stood by.
It is him who made politics enough of an issue to threaten the main forum yet again, this change was moved by threatening the forum content.
That the issue is such that people like Crow and Cyangmou feel compelled to leave, tells me all I need to know about this.
Talk about straw man btw. And I find it amusing you found offense in these "insults" that were obviously tongue in cheek.
That again casts doubt on the judgment of these things. But whatever.

I wonder how voluntary this disassociation for solution then really was for all sides involved.
And if you are to point around fingers with accusing bigotry, it is only fair to mention the legacy of Social Justice in the forum,
by those driving the changes forward now. If you slander the discord crowd, as a given reason for the problem, then the other side bears mention too.
If nothing else then as a reminder for going forward, to prevent that politics is only considered politics if it doesn't further Far Left motives.

And all the other parts of what I critisized remain the same on point also.
As far as it concerns the future of the place, I don't even think it's a good idea to remove these conversations.
I doubt your evaluation of what makes other media places attractive takes that into account.
You seem to think this issue is already cleared and over. well I beg to differ.

What does it even mean that what I am talking about has no place here?
Who are you to decide? Maybe I want to talk about it here? Maybe others too?
I actually do think it is related to discussions on art community.
So you don't, and you are an administrator making the rules,
and what community members like me think doesn't matter in this new age.
None of those conversations were even public for the rest of us to see
I suppose to save us from the drama? Or to cut the rest of the community out?
because guys like me obviously are not part of "we", regardless of our own contributions.
Well, I suppose you consider having done the most around here,
and what I think and have to say doesn't matter to your new vision.

Well, I suppose that goes alright, you can have it.
Whatever you can make of it with that mindset.
Keep "restructuring" and "modernizing" away.
I certainly wouldn't want to ruin your virtuous efforts.

Offline Indigo

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Re: Stepping back as a mod

Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 11:25:28 pm
You're making wild assumptions about something that you, to your own admission, had no involvement in or were witness to.  The discord lives on.  Many of us, including me, are still active on the discord.  Honestly I think this situation also improved the atmosphere there as well, and I'm glad it's doing well.  You're characterizing this situation to be a much bigger monster than the reality.

Quote
politics is only considered politics if it doesn't further Far Left motives
this isn't a left/right thing, dude.  This is about fostering a welcoming art community.  Even crow recognizes the politics channel was toxic and a bad idea - which is why it no longer exists.

Quote
Who are you to decide?
Yes you are correct, this isn't a free-speech platform.  This is a privately run art community, and I am the administrator.  If you're looking for that sort of community (which I do think is valuable) you need to look elsewhere.

Quote
None of those conversations were even public for the rest of us to see
I suppose to save us from the drama?
They didn't need to be.  These kinds of conversations are exactly the kinds of conversations that need to happen between mods privately.

Quote
Well, I suppose that goes alright, you can have it.
Whatever you can make of it with that mindset.
Keep "restructuring" and "modernizing" away.
I certainly wouldn't want to ruin your virtuous efforts.
Thanks for your approval

Quote
Better ban me now too
okay

----

locking this thread because it devolved into a shitstorm.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 11:32:08 pm by Indigo »