AuthorTopic: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.  (Read 8751 times)

Offline RAV

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #20 on: February 16, 2016, 02:47:17 am
RAV, fundamentals is all about creating a language in which you can communicate. You can probably express deep emotions using just a basic grasp of English, but I think mostly, you're going to write shitty poems if you don't grasp the language. It's the same with art. Fundamentals build the language, style is how you use it.

Concrete example: someone with bad fundamentals looks at a manga drawing and thinks: "hmm, they represent the mouth with just a single line, and the eyes are big, I can do that!"

Someone with good fundamentals looks at a good manga drawing and thinks: "hmm, there's a small indentation in the line that represents the contour of the thigh. That's because the quadriceps wraps around there. That's a clever way to symbolize that muscle. How would that work from other directions? I'll study all the manga legs I can find."

So, talking about pixel art, if we take into account that properly studying it is as much about understanding the works of other artists, as it is about the very basics of technique, that to me sounds time intensive enough to go along 50/50 to art fundamentals supporting that, instead of 90/10. I think that immersing yourself in the existing style culture can be a rich part of building your visual language.

Offline Gil

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #21 on: February 16, 2016, 04:54:04 am
So, talking about pixel art, if we take into account that properly studying it is as much about understanding the works of other artists, as it is about the very basics of technique, that to me sounds time intensive enough to go along 50/50 to art fundamentals supporting that, instead of 90/10. I think that immersing yourself in the existing style culture can be a rich part of building your visual language.
And I'm saying that without proper fundamentals, it is intrinsically impossible to immerse yourself in that style culture as you don't have the comprehension to even see it, let alone understand it. The time you put in will be essentially useless. In the end though, the number is not that important, you find it out yourself as you go along. All we provided is the number we use ourselves. If it's 50/50 for you, great, whatever works for you.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been practicing art, how many hours per week and can we see some examples of style studies? I don't think I've seen your work yet, so it's hard for me to gauge what you mean when you say you do 50% style studies?

Offline AlexHW

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #22 on: February 16, 2016, 05:11:57 am
I style my mind everyday with understanding. My thoughts are all stylized.

Offline Ai

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #23 on: February 16, 2016, 08:37:57 am
I style my mind everyday with understanding. My thoughts are all stylized.
I now have the image of a 'brain-dresser' running a comb through your nicely lathered brain.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline RAV

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #24 on: February 16, 2016, 12:47:30 pm
I wonder even if these percentages also change in time for one person. And if people are spending more time with something in ways they don't realize, which kind of distorts recommendations.

I noticed in other subjects, that while students start out most busy learning fundamentals at school, in time the focus changes more to the analysis of other people's work by those fundamentals in university. And what of these higher works are in the realm of fundamentals, and what in another's style, becomes a bit diffuse even. Because style derives from fundamentals, there is always a little to be learned even about fundamentals in just style.

There seems a point of saturation in most subjects, where people concentrate more on a sort of style specialization, even though fundamentals remain important, and are even subject to ongoing research still, by others that keep concentrating on them instead. But usually that isn't to say either is wrong in their different emphasis and goals. Rather even synergetic.

So from a more general perpective, looking at universal problems of life, it keeps making me wonder.

On the other hand, I also do agree a lot, that I often think that most people in the field of programming too are not well enough educated on the fundamentals of computing, and that this hurts them badly in their higher level decisions very often. Usually, they will argue in favour of the quick results they are getting by relying on other people's style interpretation of computing, in languages/frameworks/engines, results they seem content with in the scope of their project. And even though it has so many obvious flaws, unwitting misuse, and unnecessary limitations, hidden behind a shiny surface, maybe they are still right, even in that other things matter more to most people using it. But it can be frustrating of course, to watch them over-do their justification, that nothing else would make sense than living these abstractions. Why they shouldn't aim for more, for going deeper. Why others shouldn't waste their time trying. Often stating strong opinions as fact, while at best relying on hear-say, without ever having done themselves work on compiler construction and language design to qualify their statements. Sometimes I think, a coder isn't a coder, unless coding in his own language. Still, I try to see more the creative opportunity they have in not having to do all that, what aspect makes their work worthwhile, and how it may not really work well otherwise the way it does, all things considered, that they'd miss other opportunities in bogging themselves down too much with fundamentals. Maybe. Or maybe, people really do not spend enough time in the fundamentals of anything, and we should be more consistent in our critique.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:14:01 pm by RAV »

Offline Helm

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #25 on: February 16, 2016, 02:00:52 pm
I've seen similar discussion in Pix a lot and it's kind of doing injustice to the topic in my opinion to just read what seem like endless academic philosophizing on a subject by people who don't really present artwork. I mean, sure, it's great to philosophize, but these blocks of text just end up seeming like signal noise in a thread which could be useful if it contained more practical advice than philosophizing.

For example Alex's contribution to the thread. I look at his art and I completely get how his approach is true to his art and I know if I tried to think more like that, my art would benefit in a similar way.

Is it 50/50? Is it 90/10? Is it blue/red? For a person wanting to learn, they can look at my art and make up their mind if the path I took would be useful to them or not (this comes with a lot of caveats attached, but still). If they read the block text of people just writing philosophy without artistic output, how can they assess if that's a worthwhile path to take?

Offline Gil

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #26 on: February 16, 2016, 02:51:23 pm
Helm, you're completely right you know. I should probably start sharing more of my weekly studies, but I find taking pictures of sketches so dull :/

Also, a lot of my practice lately has been on beer coasters at a bar (I really enjoy drawing at bars for some reason).

In any case, the best way to see how to practice is probably to read through the Daily Sketch thread. Lots of great stuff there.

Offline RAV

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #27 on: February 16, 2016, 02:59:20 pm
I've seen similar discussion in Pix a lot and it's kind of doing injustice to the topic in my opinion to just read what seem like endless academic philosophizing on a subject by people who don't really present artwork. I mean, sure, it's great to philosophize, but these blocks of text just end up seeming like signal noise in a thread which could be useful if it contained more practical advice than philosophizing.

For example Alex's contribution to the thread. I look at his art and I completely get how his approach is true to his art and I know if I tried to think more like that, my art would benefit in a similar way.

Is it 50/50? Is it 90/10? Is it blue/red? For a person wanting to learn, they can look at my art and make up their mind if the path I took would be useful to them or not (this comes with a lot of caveats attached, but still). If they read the block text of people just writing philosophy without artistic output, how can they assess if that's a worthwhile path to take?

I wonder if disparaging and trash talking the styles of youth culture by a very academic approach on art, is too an injustice. I guess people do tend to philosophize a little about a topic they have no actual investment in, searching for possible alternatives to a prevalent opinion that sometimes comes across a bit too judgemental. Happens, I heard.

But it's true, though I have a deeper practical reason for why I openly wonder about these things here, it probably isn't much relevant to most of you at this point, and I wouldn't want to drag down the quality of topic with my bothersome philosophy. So I consider the matter settled in favour of the most experienced artists here.


« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:02:17 pm by RAV »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #28 on: February 22, 2016, 03:17:09 am
at the end of the day there are just individual solutions fitting to every individuum.
No need to discuss how many percent or so - it's pointless.

Fact is that one needs time to learn something. How much depends on the individual skill level, understanding, interest, motivation and a bunch of factors.
It's important for every individual to strike a balance.

I guess if we are working a lot of us have at some point a gut feeling "i should practice this more"
If you feel you do too little quick work, to little studies, to little whatever, step back with the stuff you do and focus more on what's pressing against the backside of your brain.

step back, analyze the issue and practice what you think needs to get practiced.
How long it takes is irrelevant, as long as you truly understood it at the end.
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Basketcase

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Re: finding a balance, and where pixel art stands.

Reply #29 on: February 25, 2016, 08:55:39 am
I'm totally unbalanced. I've been pixel art-ing on and off for over a decade. I'm good at specific pixelwork techniques. I can hand anti-alias a smooth curve with the best of 'em. But I almost totally neglected fundamentals, natural media, hand-drawing. Whoops. Overall I'm still an amateur. Oh well. I still get joy from this!

I'm a professional programmer so perhaps I'll live pixel art mastery vicariously by developing a fantastic drawing application for y'all to use.
To do: ??? Cow made my lovely avatar.