[C+C] Character Sprite & Idle Animation - Native American Inspired Character

[tsej]

EDIT : added "Inspired" to the title.

The Character.
 
WIP Idle Animation.
 
Thanks a bunch to Kas, Ambi, Conz and Atnas for the help so far. 

Hey! This is my first character and I'd love some C+C. 
It's inspired by the Native Americans since majority of the combat will be based on the Bow. 

What I'm looking for: 
-How does the character look and feel? I'd love to see your interpretations/edits. 
-Does the idle animation feel okay?
-Any suggestions for the actual character. No matter how drastic!   
Thanks.

[Advent]

-How does the character look and feel? I'd love to see your interpretations/edits. 
-Does the idle animation feel okay?
-Any suggestions for the actual character. No matter how drastic!   

Hello ! I am not an expert so I will just give you simple what-I-see and what-I-would-want-to-see kind of talk.

So character's hair looks unnatural, you should make it shorter I guess. Left arm and legs are mixing up with clothes too.
Not sure if it should or shouldn't have bigger/any feet. Left hand looks strange. Also darker colors could resemble more of ekhm, darker color but not the same, I guess for red it would be purple etc. Character looks as character though and resembles red haired big boobed hunter so it's not that bad !

As for animation, right hand is stretching unnatraly, left is bouncing strangely and you can see pixels then it comes to legs. You have a long way but keep practicing and what is the most important have fun doing it !

I tried not to be harsh, please don't lynch me ! Also you can ignore my opinion as I am not a professional, just beginner like you 

[tsej]

So character's hair looks unnatural, you should make it shorter I guess. Left arm and legs are mixing up with clothes too.
Not sure if it should or shouldn't have bigger/any feet. Left hand looks strange. Also darker colors could resemble more of ekhm, darker color but not the same, I guess for red it would be purple etc.

It's not all hair, there's a headpiece on top. Noted what you find strange.

Character looks as character though and resembles red haired big boobed hunter so it's not that bad !

 
It's a dude. 

As for animation, right hand is stretching unnaturally, left is bouncing strangely and you can see pixels then it comes to legs. You have a long way but keep practicing and what is the most important have fun doing it !

I'll try fixing the animation later. I need more input!

I tried not to be harsh, please don't lynch me ! Also you can ignore my opinion as I am not a professional, just beginner like you

Harsh is better. Sugercoating a critique helps no one Thanks!

[Advent]

Oh, well. Sorry ! No matter how I look at sprite it looks like big boobed red hair huntress and I can't see headpiece.

[Seiseki]

There are a few things that make this read as a female.
The skirt. The head piece which kinda looks like 80's hair.
The chest which bulges out. Hourglass body shape.

Your palette uses very similar colors which makes it harder to make parts stand out from each other.
For the headpiece, I'd recommend having a more contrasting color for the hair, or the headpiece, one of them has to stand out.
And maybe adding in some feathers if you want it to look more Native American and less like hair.

[tsej]

Thank you Seiseki. It seems my biggest problem right now is contrasting and lighting. I'll try to study it and redo the character.

[transilience]

So I had the opposite problem, where I was turning a male character into a female and getting it to read female was a problem so here are my best points for you in regards of trying to "man" him up.

- The chest reads like breasts because of 2 reasons - the dark part between the pecs and under looks more like under boob shadow than a man's rib structure, break this up. second reason is that the bit of shoulder from his left arm actually works to add to the chest - boob structure, try a strong contrasting color and maybe move the arm into a position that shows it's one continuos body part to avoid pieces of the arm extending the torso.

- The hair reads feminine but there are only a few things you can do about that since long hair at such scales will almost always read feminine. You can try to make it messy, a messy hair cut is more of man's style than a females, maybe get some spikes to fall over the front of his head.

- skinny calfs and feet are a female trait, sad to say. when it comes to these pixel scales you have to go with stereotypes, making the calfs and feet so small makes it looks like a woman's legs and feet.

Try to play with these areas so you can keep your long hair and loin cloth for that native feel.

[PixelPiledriver]

Some thoughts:

[tsej]

- The chest reads like breasts because of 2 reasons - the dark part between the pecs and under looks more like under boob shadow than a man's rib structure, break this up. second reason is that the bit of shoulder from his left arm actually works to add to the chest - boob structure, try a strong contrasting color and maybe move the arm into a position that shows it's one continuos body part to avoid pieces of the arm extending the torso.

Noted. I will redesign it.

- The hair reads feminine but there are only a few things you can do about that since long hair at such scales will almost always read feminine. You can try to make it messy, a messy hair cut is more of man's style than a females, maybe get some spikes to fall over the front of his head.

That's great insight, and I think I see it now. I'll try to work on it.

- skinny calfs and feet are a female trait, sad to say. when it comes to these pixel scales you have to go with stereotypes, making the calfs and feet so small makes it looks like a woman's legs and feet

.
That's unfortunate but it seems I will have to do it.

Thank you for your help! Once I get free this evening, I'll work on it.
 

[tsej]

Some thoughts:

That a great edit! But unfortunately it's a bit too stereotypical and I don't want to offend anyone! Thank you though.

[ErekT]

The problem I think is that there's no clear markers to identify this as a native American fella, as opposed to say, a Celt for instance.

That's the point I took away from PPD's edit anyway. Simple symbolism is very effective at this res. Maybe try and find some middle-road?

[Friend]

Or study Native American warrior garb and go for an outfit that you find that somewhat diverges from the stereotypical

[PixelPiledriver]

But unfortunately it's a bit too stereotypical and I don't want to offend anyone!

Gah.
I was hoping you wouldn't say something like that.
Stereotypical?
Who would you be offending exactly?

It doesn't mean much, as I'm not very attached to my culture or offended by most things.
But I'm native american, and something like this doesn't offend me.
In fact a warrior like this symbolizes a stable and proud moment of that culture's history.

Maybe you could call it offensive if you drew an ugly man kicking his alcoholic wife and titled it:
"Just another day in the wigwam for TatankaFace and Pochajaundice"
Still I would find that funny.
So I'm not really the best person to ask.

It's ok if you want to do something that is inspired by native americans, rather than is native american.
But relax on thinking that it's offensive to draw something that closely symbolizes what it's supposed to be.
That is going to put a very thick mental road block in front of you when working with any sort of human/culture related art.
Smash it.

[wzl]

That is going to put a very thick mental road block in front of you when working with any sort of human/culture related art.
Smash it.

whatever you do in art, it is pretty much bound to offend someone. your character is to me not symbolizing a native american at all, it could be a hunter gatherer from any period or location. stereotypes are there for a reason. they exist because it is what we loosely identify as an ethnic group or ..group of people.. for lack of a better term. dont restrict yourself by that though. like ppd said. it will put mental blocks on yourself that will not help you.

if you dont want to go for the stereotypical depiction of a native american thats totally your thing though. just keep in mind that if you want to communicate a native american, something should be there to make the viewer recognize it. be it  the character, clothing, surrounding environments or skills/tools/weapons they use, or any combination thereof.

[pipster818]

I have a somewhat drastic suggestion, please feel free to disregard it. I think you should try making the character a woman. I thought it was a woman at first, and it seems like most other people did as well. But the thing is, I didn't think it was badly drawn. I just thought it was a well drawn female. So if you're having trouble making it look male, why not go the opposite direction, and make it explicitly female?


As for the discussion of what is offensive/stereotypical, I think you can't go wrong if you just accurately portray the appearance of an actual tribe. I think it's only really offensive if it's unrealistic and if it mixes clothing from two different cultures and pretends they're the same.


Or alternatively, you could leave the character's ethnicity ambiguous and just call it a "bowman" or "bow woman" or something like that. Right now it's in the slightly awkward stage of being called native american, but not actually looking much like it.


As for the animation and overall drawing quality, I don't really have anything to add, I think this is already quite good.

[lachrymose]

The irony here being that in an attempt to not offend anyone, you've basically whitewashed the character. An action that most certainly would offend certain circles. So I'd like to reiterate what others have already said. No matter what you do, you could potentially offend someone. Don't let that be a cause for you to limit your artwork though.

[tsej]

 
I think it still needs a LOT of work, I'm trying to refine it.
Hey! I was a little busy for the past few days, I'm back now. 

In hindsight, I should've phrased my post and title better, sorry.

@PixelPileDriver - I agree. I'm sorry. I have decided to be free, then! I tried to study your edit and remade the character.

@wzl - I agree. thank you.

@pipster818 - Hey! That's a very good suggestion, I'll do it with a different character (Basically, I'll try to make a male and female version). I don't want to give it up, if that makes sense? But I definitely see where you're coming from. Thank you.
I was helped by atnas and ambi, that's why it is decent

@lachrymose I agree, I will remember this in the future. Thank you!

[Ambivorous]

Useful discussion about stereotypes. Thanks everyone.

Tsej, you don't need to use outlines to define forms. Use your values.
I make edit.



So his chest and stomach I define using light. I also bulked him up a little and changed his pose to be slightly more edgy. Added the square chin for man points and when I think of native americans I think strong chin for some reason?
Reduced colours, added more contrast, corrected light source issues (keep in mind I didn't keep my lightsource too consistent in this one). The normal stuff.

Looking cool man keep it up.