AuthorTopic: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting  (Read 11379 times)

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

[C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

on: April 07, 2015, 04:12:00 pm
ok the castle interior is supposed to be yellow/gold because its located in prospit, which is from homestuck.




im having some trouble/concerns with the first map.



kinda unsure if the walls blend in with the ground and if the black outline around the candleholder things should stay. also, those darker semi-circle patches near the guards are supposed to be columns that are against the wall, hence why you can't see all of it.
its still a wip (literally just started it last night) so i'll be sure to add more to it to actually make it look like a castle hall. keep in mind that i have to put it all together in rpg maker 2003 so the tiles shouldnt change size at all and i want to keep the palette as limited as possible.
(those guards are just there for size comparison.)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 06:03:11 pm by computertrash »

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 12:32:20 pm
ehh.



- removed columns
- added thrones + flag
- added black outlines

working on character sprites atm.
unsure if the outlines should stay or nah.

Offline rikfuzz

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 427
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • twitter @hot_pengu

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 04:08:38 pm
Lighting doesn't make much sense, as the shadows are not consistent.

I've made this gif for you to illustrate how I work out where to put shadows:



Some consistent rules will help tie things together. Lit vs unlit planes don't have much contrast atm, but also lit horizontal vs lit vertical planes could do with more contrast too (besides the stairs).  Don't quite understand how you're deciding which edges to black-outline, but doesn't appear consistent at first glance. 

The projection isn't even so consistent. Stairs are sort of weird because they have no depth (should start further down).  Walls are somehow higher when you've traveled Z-wards (should be shorter or have a transition). [This one's not so noticeable, I often ignore it, but it helps to sort of think of it all dimensionally].

« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 04:11:50 pm by rikfuzz »

Offline surt

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Meat by-product
    • not_surt
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2254.htm
    • View Profile
    • Uninhabitant

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 07:32:13 pm
I don't understand the logic of the outlining.
You have outlines on the silhouette at the sides of the walls but not at the silhouette at the top of the walls.
You have outlines on the crease at the bottom of the walls except in the topmost part of the image. Personally I don't think the creases should be outlined at all as it make the walls look disconnected from the ground, following the login of their use on silhouettes.
Other than that it's quite nice.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 11:49:48 am by surt »

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 01:13:14 pm
Lighting doesn't make much sense, as the shadows are not consistent.

I've made this gif for you to illustrate how I work out where to put shadows:



Some consistent rules will help tie things together. Lit vs unlit planes don't have much contrast atm, but also lit horizontal vs lit vertical planes could do with more contrast too (besides the stairs).  Don't quite understand how you're deciding which edges to black-outline, but doesn't appear consistent at first glance. 

The projection isn't even so consistent. Stairs are sort of weird because they have no depth (should start further down).  Walls are somehow higher when you've traveled Z-wards (should be shorter or have a transition). [This one's not so noticeable, I often ignore it, but it helps to sort of think of it all dimensionally].

the lighting would come from the upper left corner. i cant really explain how i wanted the stairs to be like through words but i suppose like this (without the sticking out part at the bottom)

as if the walls are the 'railings'??

I don't understand the logic of the outlining.
You have outlines on the silhouette at the sides of the walls but not at the silhouette at the top of the walls.
You have outlines on the crease at the bottom of the walls except in the topmost part of the image. Personally I don't think the creases should be outlined at all as it make the walls look disconnected from the ground, following the login of their use on silhouettes.
Other than that it's quite nice.

so should i use outlines on important scenery/items like so?


(also i dont feel as if though the sprites fit in with the background..)

thanks to both of you for input tho.
i suppose i should add the sprite sheet.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 02:32:31 pm by computertrash »

Offline rikfuzz

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 427
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • twitter @hot_pengu

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 03:06:21 pm
the lighting would come from the upper left corner.

Your lighting in the latest revision is coming directly from the left, not upper left.  (Else the south-facing walls would be in shade).  But as long as that's consistent that's fine. (Which you're not just yet, but getting there).

Offline Seiseki

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 915
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Starmancer
    • OminuxGames
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/35207.htm
    • StarmancerGame
    • View Profile
    • Starmancer Patreon

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 03:11:45 pm
Your sprites are black and white, which is why they look out of place..
The castle is extremely bright and colorful in contrast to them.

Also, this looks like a mix between a pyramid and a castle, because of the yellow bricks.
I think if you swap the pattern on the wall for the floor, it will look more natural since that type of brick is used for walls.

As for the outlines, put outlines on the things you want to separate from the rest. You can add it to anything as long as there is a reason for it.
If you want the bookcases to be special, then keep the outlines. (but if they don't have any gameplay significance, why point them out to the player?)

Generally for the walls and such, add outlines where you want to create depth by separating for example the top of the wall from blending into the floor. Since it's harder to see depth and how things are arranged in 2D.
 What you had done before was the opposite, where you have separated two things, the bottom of the walls and the floor, which are usually joined together.

Offline CelioHogane

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 06:00:55 pm
Your sprites are black and white, which is why they look out of place..
Also, this looks like a mix between a pyramid and a castle, because of the yellow bricks.

and this is how you know if someone reads homestuck or not.

Offline Seiseki

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 915
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Starmancer
    • OminuxGames
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/35207.htm
    • StarmancerGame
    • View Profile
    • Starmancer Patreon

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 06:14:24 pm
Well shame on me from missing literally the first line in the first post..  :-[

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 06:44:20 pm
Your lighting in the latest revision is coming directly from the left, not upper left.  (Else the south-facing walls would be in shade).  But as long as that's consistent that's fine. (Which you're not just yet, but getting there).

i never really was good with the technical aspects of shadows, haha.

Your sprites are black and white, which is why they look out of place..
The castle is extremely bright and colorful in contrast to them.

the characters are supposed to be black and white (except for their clothes) because that's how they are in the webcomic the game is based on, with a few changes (like the hair on the red guy and the green girl).





they're meant to be like that (aracial) so that the fans can intepret them however they'd like and thats what i kinda want to do for the game.

Quote
Also, this looks like a mix between a pyramid and a castle, because of the yellow bricks.
I think if you swap the pattern on the wall for the floor, it will look more natural since that type of brick is used for walls.

As for the outlines, put outlines on the things you want to separate from the rest. You can add it to anything as long as there is a reason for it.
If you want the bookcases to be special, then keep the outlines. (but if they don't have any gameplay significance, why point them out to the player?)

you mean like this?

it does look nice n all but im kind of stuck to the original.

the bookshelves have some interesting bits of info as well as an item needed to make a new weapon.



Quote
Generally for the walls and such, add outlines where you want to create depth by separating for example the top of the wall from blending into the floor. Since it's harder to see depth and how things are arranged in 2D.
 What you had done before was the opposite, where you have separated two things, the bottom of the walls and the floor, which are usually joined together.

its kind of hard to do this without losin the style. i could just change it like so.


Well shame on me from missing literally the first line in the first post..  :-[

aw geez dude, s'ok! you were just tryin to help, haha.
=

i dont really want this game to be TOO fancy, it is my first game and its just something for fun. no profit at all from this.
im working on windowskins/font colours because this looks strange (esp with the green girl)

but i have icons ready to go.


bonus title screen, background ripped directly from the webcomic.

Offline CelioHogane

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 07:39:20 pm
did you try to use the characters with no outlines?

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #11 on: April 12, 2015, 02:09:31 pm

Offline CelioHogane

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 03:03:33 pm


I think the idea was making that part higher.

Offline Seiseki

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 915
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Starmancer
    • OminuxGames
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/35207.htm
    • StarmancerGame
    • View Profile
    • Starmancer Patreon

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 03:06:00 pm
You should try more contrast between the walls and floor. Right now it's kinda hard to tell the shapes.

A quick and dirty mockup. I tried black outlines around the walls first, but it looked kinda distracting..



« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 03:07:41 pm by Seiseki »

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #14 on: April 13, 2015, 02:01:27 am


I think the idea was making that part higher.
not sure what u mean but it makes no geometrical sense unless there's a ramp involved which I doubt.
u cant just put stairs up half the height of a platform and expect it to connect.

had to run last night but contrast is the big thing needing addressing as Seiseki pointed out.
The problem is that the reference artwork suffers the same problem which it might be able to get away with on the premise that its supposed to look rushed and crappy (I don't know I don't read it) but definitely needs more depth and stonger use of highlights.
a professional might take it further with large dark sections such as the wall behind the curtains with textured golden features that pop out.

Offline Kazuya Mochu

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 436
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ^thx Larwick
    • View Profile
    • my portfolio website

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 09:10:28 am
I know people sugested you remove the black outline on the tiles, but I think, considering how yellow everything looks, you could really help distingish what is wall and what is floor by having a black line as a good separation.
just my 2 cents though (if we still use that expression)
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #16 on: April 13, 2015, 12:28:25 pm
Yeah but it doesn't need to be pure black

Offline Kazuya Mochu

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 436
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ^thx Larwick
    • View Profile
    • my portfolio website

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 01:50:49 pm
No, thats true. The outline could be a darker tone of the wall color or even a bounced light color, if there's any.
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline CelioHogane

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #18 on: April 13, 2015, 03:47:47 pm

Offline Seiseki

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 915
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Starmancer
    • OminuxGames
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/35207.htm
    • StarmancerGame
    • View Profile
    • Starmancer Patreon

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #19 on: April 13, 2015, 05:54:14 pm
not sure what u mean

This:


You need four steps or it's going to be too short.. As the 16px measurement shows.

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 07:00:43 pm
guys i can just take out the steps! theyre not necessary!
ill rework the map when i get home. i suppose i'll make the walls darker.
also, this castle map won't be used too often, just at the beginning and ending as well as cutscenes inbetween worlds.
this flash might help a little bit? i guess? the castle is on the battlefield but it has more aspects of prospit than derse (i may have to make a derse castle map as well but ill just switch out yellow with purple.

=

in case anyone is interested, heres some screenshots on what i have so far:



(on the last one, the slimes and bg are placeholders, im just showing how the battle layout is: 'traditional' with no battle sprites for the heroes)

i made a lens item that when used in battle, shows the enemy name/description, as well as current HP and MP. it took me an embarrassingly amount of time to figure out to allocate the enemy HP/MP to the variables right before the message window so it'd always be updated. im just glad that it works.
if the window skins look familiar, its because i took the colours from the snes eartbound mint palette. unsure if theyre just placeholder colours for now but they look pretty cool.

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #21 on: April 14, 2015, 12:26:27 pm
ok how about this? im still working on the lanterns + upper parts of the walls

Offline Kazuya Mochu

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 436
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ^thx Larwick
    • View Profile
    • my portfolio website

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #22 on: April 14, 2015, 01:03:56 pm
Really nice! adding the highlight gave it a direction. its now popping out.
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 09:16:16 pm
i finally fixed the corners of the upper wall things, which took quite a while. not just gotta work on the lanterns. also lightened colours of the floor shadows since they were blending in with the walls.



then i gotta see how i'm going to tackle the 4 planets + the battlefield.

=

question, do most rpgs use a backdrop in a battle? i mean like, if youre fighting in a snowy mountain, the battle backdrop will have snow and stuff? i'm not sure if i wanna go down that route or if i should use different coloured abstract backdrops like in OFF.


(top, rough backdrop for land of wind and shade;bottom, backdrop for zone 1 (OFF))

should i go with an abstract backdrop like the one on the right? abstract would look neat but having backdrops of the actual planets would be just as cool (or even more) to the player.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:24:59 pm by computertrash »

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg castle interior

Reply #24 on: April 14, 2015, 10:12:42 pm
Check out what seiseki did with the light cast off the torches.
This is an opportunity to bring out the texture of the bricks so even assuming ur not adding an effect in-engine (which isnt likely to create as nice an effect anyway)

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 06:34:34 pm
its been a while since i posted in here. i'm pretty much done with that castle interior (will need help on how the lights should work)



but i still have like 5 more tilesets to create. i started on the first, lowas, and i think it looks okay right now.



its kind of a strange planet. the trees and mushrooms are bioluminiscent, clouds trap fireflies in the sky, and the pipes are full of oil. (those yellow things are supposed to be salamanders, hehe)
theres flash games that are located on this planet: here and here (my favourite) (you should turn down the volume, they can be kinda loud but the music is nice)
obviously i cant replicate them exactly but i want to get the feel of them.

Offline Decroded

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1285
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Oh hai
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #26 on: April 28, 2015, 02:43:28 am
perspective is off u need to change the curve of the structures so we see more of the top

Offline Drazelic

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #27 on: April 28, 2015, 03:10:51 am
Ooh, It looks ambitious! I dearly hope that you bring this project to fruition.

With LoWaS, maybe try to use geometric forms a little more. Don't be afraid to exaggerate the colors for better contrast; you don't have to draw your colors exclusively from the comic, the comic colors are chosen mostly for 2d panoramas rather than 2.5d RPG maps.

Remember, in general things are brightest on their top surface, and their side surfaces are less bright. Value is the best way to distinguish your walkable platform planes very distinct from your unwalkable obstacles like building walls and cliff faces!

Same thing goes for the trees; give them more form by giving them more than one color. Consider outlining the rocks, trees, and huts too?

Offline computertrash

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • knight of time
    • View Profile
    • tumblr

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #28 on: May 07, 2015, 12:37:18 am

the shop doesnt look quite right still

Offline CelioHogane

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #29 on: May 07, 2015, 02:06:54 am
I think you should go back with the rocks, they looked better without outlines.

You should only use outlines for important things, things that you want to be something people look at it as is important.

Offline SteamCaptain

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] [WIP] help with rpg outdoor spriting

Reply #30 on: May 07, 2015, 12:38:26 pm
A technique I like to use is to outline object, except for the parts that are on the ground. This also makes them look less like they're floating above the ground. (I have to admit it doesn't look as good on the npc's).
Also, the angle of the shop is a bit off. I recommend making circular thing half of the width (2:1 ratio)