AuthorTopic: [WIP] Misc Animations  (Read 21993 times)

Offline Rosier

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[WIP] Misc Animations

on: February 25, 2015, 10:40:48 pm
Current Project:



More or less finished over the course of the topic:
  Throws a giant wheel.  Based on one of Sol Badguy's moves.
  Basic 3 hit combo.
Boxing Footwork/Moves and jabs


Original Post:

I don't really have plans to make a fighting game any time soon, but the basic idea behind these is to fill out a couple of animations that one would need as practice.

  This is kind of like an entrance, comparable to Mario's Pipe/Link's Tornado from Smash Bros.  He slides in on ice before turning.
  A looped one two punch animation.
  A full combo, sans motion blur.  Arms are covered with ice, which is why they are white.  The arm hammer feels rough, but I couldn't figure out a better way.
  Full combo with blur.  I personally prefer this one.

Any C+C on how to improve/fix anything would be greatly appreciated. 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 08:40:12 am by Rosier »

Offline CelioHogane

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 10:56:01 pm
First animation looks like a pokemon trainer fight, is fun XD

Besides that, You really should make the ice look... well... like ice.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 08:57:08 pm
First animation looks like a pokemon trainer fight, is fun XD

Besides that, You really should make the ice look... well... like ice.

To do just slide into frame, don't they?  Well at least the sprites did.

Ice probably isn't the best way to put it.  It the first sprite it's straight up ice, so that could probably do with some change, but the arm hammer is making his arms sub zero temperatures, meaning it's more of an aura of cold than actual ice.

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 10:27:55 pm


I think you need a lot more anticipation, and the actual hits should just be one quick frame, with the slowdown after it connects. I forgot to keep editing the legs after the first few frames, and didnt add blur, but that should give you the idea.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 01:01:54 am


I went ahead and added more substantial blur.  I feel like the removal of the one swing frame makes it necessary.  Otherwise added another step forward and played with the feet a bit.

It's definitely has more of an impact now.

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 06:15:58 pm
Some thoughts on the pose:


And the animation(a little unfinished but whatever ::)):

Offline wzl

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 10:08:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuDZU-kSybE#t=285

This comes to mind when i look at the edit.

I like the cleanup and fixes to the anatomy, but if someone throws punches like that he'd probably not win any fight.

the worst offender is probably the hip thrust forward. it cancels any power from the punch and throws you off balance. Additionally the flying elbows/big lunge will remove all speed from the punch.

Here's a quick edit to get the points across. even if it mostly just removes frames :p

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 02:17:01 am



The pose itself it based on Sagat up here, which is why the feet look like that.  Looking back, I can probably touch up the arms a bit and make them a bit more like it. 

Otherwise, looking at your animations and Dudley's punches from Third Strike might help a bit.  http://www.zweifuss.ca/dudley/dudley.htm
What I'm gathering is that he should twist his body more in the second punch.  Both of yours and Dudley's Standing MP have that kind of motion.

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:10:25 am
If you have the time and money get a punching bag of some sort and some gloves.
You'll learn a lot.
I kind of prefer a speed bag, but heavy and striking are much easier to setup.
Striking is def the most space and use efficient.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline wzl

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 06:15:52 am
Power in punches and kicks in martial arts is all about how it is transferred through the body. The hip, being the center of the body, is a key component to that. Punches can be thrown using the hip as you will be able to use your whole body weight plus the push of your legs. It is never the arm or leg alone, as you'd loose tension, balance, speed and power.

If your pose is taken from sagat i'd suggest you look up on some muay thai moves and application. The arms are used for covering the head in an offensive and quick to react position. The weight is shifted back so your foreleg is free to kick instantly without shifting your weight to counter balance. Additionally in muay thai a lot of techniques include knee and elbow strikes, even though it doesn't really show in sagats moveset :P

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 09:26:30 am
Wzl is right, I looked at some refs and oh my how embarrassing  :-[

b.b..but  I had to redeem myself, made the stance more like muay thai (seems to be sagats fighting style):


Punch Only:
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 12:58:53 pm by wolfenoctis »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 02:30:59 pm
Admins give some cookies and points to wolf for his constantly amazing edits. :)  :y:

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 04:52:27 pm
I thought of it more as actual street fighting/boxing than Muay Thai, Sagat just happened to have the pose I was thinking of.
These edits ought to really help future versions, though.  The motions are still the same more or less.  It's really great to have resources like this.


Edit:  I kept my probably lower quality base, mainly cause I want it to be my work rather than just borrowing someone else's. 

Matched the arms with wolf's edit, knocked few unnecessary frames and shaded.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 03:44:17 am by Rosier »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 08:24:42 pm
you really are missing out if you dont try to match the footwork in wolf's and all of the chest and face rotation. His has great observation on weightshifting, learn all you can from it. Dont let fear of yours ending up like his keep you back. Your lastest still looks like a still image barely being modified while his feels alive because it rotates his torso and face features exactly when it's needed. Put the work in, I know you can  ;D.

After this just look at footage of real fighters and try to see where their weight is as they fight. Good fighters dont start the attack from the limb they're using to attack, the punch doesnt start from the shoulder it starts from the foot, and the whole body is always involved. if you have that in mind and you observe it in fighters clips and replicate it you can get to where wolf got without his help.

Glad to see you doing learning other than exagerated anticipations and overshots, this is the kind of stuff that'll really make you a good animator, not just an anime imitator   :y:
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 08:30:48 pm by Conceit »

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #14 on: March 06, 2015, 09:35:58 pm
I did make him rotate his chest a bit more, although clearly not enough.  I'll try and make it more similar with the less leg motion and all and get back to it.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 07:19:51 am
was just passing by and I was reminded of this footage of a taekwondo kicker...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZSIV21GMzA#t=52
mostly kicks but he does have some punching in there.

BTW, have you eve heard of WakuWaku 7 or Galaxy Fight? Sunsoft fightgames that were precursors of this flat pixel style you're using. Some cool animations in both...hope they're of some inspiration? :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DefAwU3GcEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjPOO_bQLRc

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 02:48:14 am
I'll probably work more on the combo sporadically between other things just to get more done, but I'll see if any of those games could help out with stuff, thanks.

In the meantime, a conversation between my friend and I led to the idea of suplexing a laser, which I naturally had to make, albeit at a lower res than these.

Offline Pinux

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 04:10:08 pm
I'll probably work more on the combo sporadically between other things just to get more done, but I'll see if any of those games could help out with stuff, thanks.

In the meantime, a conversation between my friend and I led to the idea of suplexing a laser, which I naturally had to make, albeit at a lower res than these.



Sweet Style I think this looks vary great like Huzzah!

Offline CelioHogane

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #18 on: March 15, 2015, 07:29:44 pm
I'll probably work more on the combo sporadically between other things just to get more done, but I'll see if any of those games could help out with stuff, thanks.

In the meantime, a conversation between my friend and I led to the idea of suplexing a laser, which I naturally had to make, albeit at a lower res than these.



You deserve my respect.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 07:31:41 am
Bumping cause I finally decided to finish some new stuff...



Idle: Based somewhat on Sol Badguy's Idle from Guilty Gear -- http://chaoti.csignal.org/sprites/large/ggx/sol_badguy_standing.gif
Idle W/ Animation:   Breathing ice into his hands.

Went ahead and redid the combo into a more viable, less flail-y motion.  What I mean when I say W/O Delay is that I took out a 'Lead Up' Frame right before the actual 'Full Hit' Frame.  I couldn't decide whether or not I wanted it to look more snappy or not, and thought you guys might have more insight.

One Hit:
One Hit W/O Delay:

The white on his foot is him sliding back to his Idle Pose on a bit of ice.

Two Hit:
Two Hit W/O Delay:

Three Hit:
Three Hit W.O Delay:

Offline sagarverma

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #20 on: May 29, 2015, 08:17:31 am
Heyyy....great ones

Offline Cheetah

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #21 on: May 30, 2015, 01:52:10 am
The character design is better and your pixel art skills have improved, but you have gone completely backwards in terms of the animation. All the previous work to get good speed, rotation, and impact developing in the previous versions of the animations has disappeared. The current punches just look so wimpy and unnatural. Reread the feedback from your previous attempt and make sure to have good references to get the form and the pacing of the animation better.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #22 on: May 30, 2015, 11:39:59 pm
sorry Rosier but I gotta echo that.

When I made a big crit and did edits on your stuff you really listened and put a lot more dynamic movement into your sprites, it was really impressive to see you could do that. But here you're back to moving as little as possible, even after Wolfenoctis has shown just how much more weight you can put into your animation if you give it your all.

This style is as simple as it gets so it shouldnt be hard to redraw frames, I know you can do it because you did it when you first got here so it just seems like you just dont want to put as much effort into animation anymore

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 11:52:49 pm
   Whoo, haven't done one of these in a while. Hey, Rosier. Saw this a while back and saw some of the responses you've gotten thus far. Some have been really good, but I'm not sure if I'm quite seeing it in your updates. I decided I had enough time today to do some quick edits and maybe try to add some info to this discussion, regarding the animation of small scale pixel art. So after about 2 hours or so of doodling in Pro-motion and a few artistic liberties I've taken with your initial concept, here's what I came up with so far!

Bumping cause I finally decided to finish some new stuff...

Idle: Based somewhat on Sol Badguy's Idle from Guilty Gear -- http://chaoti.csignal.org/sprites/large/ggx/sol_badguy_standing.gif

   The idle you have so far is decent, but there are some odd things happening here. I looked at your inspiration, via the Sol Badguy gif, and see where you're trying to go with this. It kinda' seems like you're missing the subtleties of the idle. To be more specific, your character's feet keep moving up and down, as if he's in a constant state of perpetual tip-toeing, moving up and down. You could make the excuse that he's hovering with ice powers or magic(or something), but I got the feeling he's grounded in that idle. Therefore, look at your reference one more time in Sol's stance, and notice from the knee's down those body parts rarely move. Therefore, I think it would be wise to leave the feet in a static state.

   Also, you have to understand you're working with a small space here, so traditional animation may give way to traditional pixel art technique. That is to say that you can't just focus on moving a pixel from one place to another and call it a day, as if it were a traditional line. Instead, you may have to implement a method called 'sub-pixeling'. That is to say, that within a set of frames, where one pixel was, another pixel that changes in color or contrast may take it's place creating the illusion of movement, yet somehow smoother transitions. In higher res animations, think of the equivalent of auto-tween effects between two animated frames/graphics. They are similar concepts, but sub-pixeling would be very helpful here.

   Therefore, I tried to add these concepts in this singular idle pose that I've edited for ya'. Also note that the majority of pixel movement is happening in the chest region. As you look further past the chest in all directions, you'll notice the further it moves throughout the body from the chest, the less pixel movement or sub-pixeling there is(which makes sense, as the major action in the animation is the breathing, happening through the lungs, not the other body parts!  ;D ), except for maybe the head region:




Went ahead and redid the combo into a more viable, less flail-y motion.  What I mean when I say W/O Delay is that I took out a 'Lead Up' Frame right before the actual 'Full Hit' Frame.  I couldn't decide whether or not I wanted it to look more snappy or not, and thought you guys might have more insight.

One Hit:
One Hit W/O Delay:

   As for the one hit animation, it seems you've already been told about the snap in the attack, but I'm still not quite noticing it. For animation, timing matters especially if you are to convey motion or actions to people. What some beginner tend to do when they jump into animation initially is to start animating an action, from the starting frame to the end frame in chronological order. Of course, logic would dictate that as being the smart thing to do, but animating is a bit different. It's all about communication and translating it to paper(digital or not). With this, it's about timing.

   As I mentioned previously, your animations look as though you're following through each frame chronologically, making it look as though each frame is running at the same frames per sec causing the movement to look slower than it should. In this case, you don't want to do that. Try and make key frames first, dotting their positioning before doing the 'tweens'(or "in-betweens", as there known generally). By doing so, you'll find that you'll have a better idea with mapping out the timing for each key, and how many frames it may or may not take to move to another key. Take a look at this quick edit I've done here:



   So, here it's a simple 5 frame animation. We're moving from stance to a quick jab and a recover back to stance. The key animations are the stance and the jab here, obviously. It's a simple jab, so you don't need to do much work. In fact, this could be done shorter, which you'll see in this next little sample I've done. However, for the moment focus on the changes I've made:
  • In frame 1, there's the idle stance. We'll consider this a key frame.
  • In frame 2, there is a transition moving to the next key frame, which is a solid jab.
  • In frame 3, we see the key frame, in a lower stance throwing the jab.
  • In frame 4, we have a transition/recovery frame. It looks very similar to frame 3 and the movement changes little. This is done for a reason! By making a small change from the snapping jab, we're creating the illusion of a snappy punch, slightly extending it's normal reach. Think of it as a squish-squash technique that Disney animators use on their models/characters. But altering the model's general shape/length/form, it gives it more flow and liveliness. I added the white flashy stuff, to add to the ice-effect you mentioned earlier(not that it looks like ice, just to show which hand is causing harm).
  • In frame 5,  we have what SEEMS to be a slightly out of place transition frame. However, not so much. Because we're dealing with video game animation(as you stated earlier) there are some frames that may need to be drawn that can be reused to easily transition a movement to repeat itself. In this case, we've drawn a stance that is slightly crouched, but similar to the transition frame 2. However, it could technically be a an idle frame all on it's own. This is done on purpose, as we want a universal stance that other similar attacks can be done from, so combinations can easily flow from one type of attack to another, along with repeat frames.


   Based on the last frame I mentioned earlier, we can see it helps continue the jab, if the player continuously presses the same command, programming-wise:



   So in a way, that last frame is a transitional frame not only in an animation sense, but in programming sense as well(for a fighting game, at least)!

      The other thing is timing here. On the first single jab attack I posted, the timing in chronological order from frame 1 to frame 5 is as follows in the DELAY of milliseconds per frame: 1st frame-150 ms/f, 2nd frame-60 ms/f, third frame- 40ms/f, fourth frame-60 ms/f, fifth frame-150 ms/f. Notice the quickest frame is the 3rd frame(with the smallest delay, meaning it's moving at more frames per second), which is the attack itself. Again, by adjusting our timing we can create the snapping effect.

   Much like animating a swinging pendulum, an animator notices that when the pendulum reaches each end of it's respective swing, there are more frames to be drawn/tweened in those end positions. However, when the pendulum swings downward reaching it's' midpoint of the swing, an animator will notice there are less tweens drawn there to create the illusion of speed(ie, each frame is further from one another at the mid-point so the eyes are seeing images appear in different spots on the screen at such a fast time, they seem like the images are moving quicker than the prior frames which are more closer to one another, distance/position-wise). The same is happening with our animation in that these extreme changes in positions/stances/placement will determine how many frames are needed to translate our movement.

Two Hit:
Two Hit W/O Delay:

   We continue what we've discussed earlier and apply these same methods to the next attack with some minor changes, which is simply a two punch combination. I didn't mention it earlier, but the positioning of an attack really does matter. As mentioned by the other users, the starting force of a fighter's attack comes from the body, NOT the limbs. Energy travels from the center of gravity, creating a stronger attack, than simply moving an arm up or down. That's not to say one can't attack by simply flicking a limb in anothers general direction, but martial artists around the world have learned energy moves from object to object; because of this fact, if a fighter moves his body in such a way that a limb(such as an arm or leg) travel afterward in it's general path, the resulting blow would be more forceful and resolute than simply moving with a limb.

   Your character's limbs seem a bit limp, as if they are flicking the opponent with the back of their hand in a strange 'shoo'ing manner. If he is meant to be punching, than a straight arm, which begins from the chest or hip, is more devastating.



   The legs dip a bit to produce a better "spring action" for the resulting blow. Notice the end placement of the hands as well. They are placed no lower than his shoulder, as it's meant to be a high attack. Also note the placement of his feet, as even though they turn as he turns, they still remain in place. For boxers, having a stance where the legs are shoulder-width apart and set in place during a combination helps with the power.(obviously, the application of said technique can change with different styles of boxing, where a fighter who is a 'poker' will tend to move his feet as he pokes/jabs his opponent for points. However, these fighters win by points and not damage, mostly. I'm assuming your character is looking for damage, so he may sacrifice movement on such an occasion).
   
   As far as timing goes, I've intentionally slowed down the key frame attacks here for a particular reason. I'm only doing so to create an 'impact' affect. In reality, I would've timed them quicker like the first attack. However, I'm slowing each attack here, to give you a sense of how a programmer may want to see an animation play out during a game. That is to say that if first attack hits, there would be a short delay in timing for the next input to be placed in the combination series. So basically, it's how a programmer would probably want to set the programming for an attack for added effect.
 
Three Hit:
Three Hit W.O Delay:

   Again, we're just following what we've learned so far. I reused some frames to help transition the movement a bit better, and edited some existing ones slightly to extend his reach just a teensy bit further. Each key is still slowed down, for added-effect, until he returns back to his idle pose:



   As for everything else, it's all in the details. The subtle swing of the coat and hair, posing, and knowing how your timing plays into an attack. Practice makes perfect(which I'm not claiming for myself at all), as they say. Hope to see an update in the future, as I like seeing animators grow!

Good luck! :crazy:
my back hurts...

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 01:30:06 am
@Cheetah

--Rereading everything makes me think that I confused "Delay Frames" with simulated hold or something along those lines.  Going back to these: , the difference is the 2nd having him hold for a second before hitting.  Somehow I associated that with adding an extra frame instead of just using animation techniques to make it seem snappier.

What I ended up with was this:   I can't get the arm to hold quite like I want it, but I made it snappier and also made his legs bend rather than push out.  Still going to go over it a bit more, but I want to see if I'm on the right track.

@Conceit

If I didn't want to put in any effort, I wouldn't be redoing more or less already complete animations.  The best than I can say is that I legitimately forgot how to do what I did.  Waiting two months before working on this kind of stuff probably didn't do me any favors, either...

Regardless, I'm ready and willing to go back ten more times if I need to.  I work better at this sort of thing when I bashing my head in trying to perfect it, anyway.

@B.O.B.

As for the Idle, what I meant by saying it was based on Sol Badguy was I had a previous version that looked like this:  I didn't like it that much, which is why I never posted it.  The legs in the new one are pretty much just like Sol's position wise, but the Idle was my thing.  I'll definitely look at adding a bit more chest motion like in your example, though.

For the hit animations, I had already finished the new version of the One Punch literally as you posted this.  A hint that I might be in a better position with the new one is that your One Punch has five frames, and mine has six now. 
Otherwise, I'll take a hard look at the follow ups for the punches.  The animations ought to be a great help.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #25 on: June 06, 2015, 05:19:05 am
ok rosier I went back and looked at how our crits went, and I think I made you think using a lot of fancy blurs was my idea of good animation, and when you did that I was satisfied. Good thing you're not doing that now but I thought somehow you had learnt observation and balance from that, but clearly that is not the case.

Also, you will not improve as fast if you keep doing things only in this super simplified style with no shading, you need to learn about volume and the real shape of things before you simplify, or you'll end up with a drab style instead of a minimalistic one.

When you look at something from reality in slowmotion it looks fucking awesome, right? when you look at your anims that should be the case too, but that wont happen if your keys are not interesting. so I propose when you start an animation, do it with overly long delays and only the keyframes, your poses HAVE to improve this way.

I think you still need to unpack all of what wolfenoctis did

From your response to him, clearly you want no indication of anatomy, that is ok if you still study anatomy on your other drawings, but for this animation you need to understand his skills on

posing, timing, overlapping action and followtrough.

Here's just keyframes.

a lot of your keyframes look alike, each keyframe should be one extreme of motion, they should have character so that it's interesting to look at even at slowmotion.

Now let's just look at the first punch

I can see here you did imitate Wolf, you have an overshot and then the fist spring back a little like his animation, but you have more buildup to yours, clearly you wanted more impact but I dont think you're getting it.

posing
reusing so much of your sprite is hurting your action lines. You dont want to redraw the head so it never changes angles, and specially the spine never ever gets bent here. we bend our spine all the time.


please watch this proko vid's part with the naked lady and the cyan lines.
https://youtu.be/_JHt6lOGfRs?t=20s
at the begging your pose should always be balanced on the center of gravity.

now this part
https://youtu.be/_JHt6lOGfRs?t=2m4s
 if your character is going to move as in running or taking a step to attack, he should lose that balance to get impulse for his attack. Your attacks lack that so it sorta looks like he's playing patty cake

EDIT: this part of Proko's gesture drawing video exemplifies very well how gesture improves line of action and posing
https://youtu.be/74HR59yFZ7Y?t=3m8s


here's a rough by me which has the impulse I think you meant to have with your attack. also notice how everything is changing positions a lot more.

see how his spine twists? for the buildup he's drawing an S around the line of gravity, for when he connected the punch he's way unbalanced to the right because he's putting his weight on the punch, finally  he shifts his weight back to the left to go back to starting position

I'm worried that you dont know how to draw a rotating figure in 3d. the head and the torso didnt rotate a lot, and when you did rotate his head it didnt look very real. You should not be afraid of showing his head as if we were looking down or up at it, if you cannot do that your poses will have a timidity that will make them drab. The torso rotating is really important as well, a large part of that changing of balance goes on in the hips and the shoulders.

overlapping action

there is always something that is pulling the body in the action, this is the leading action, but you still have the limbs doing something to further go with the impulse or try to balance the body.

great post about this:
http://www.animatorisland.com/beyond-the-bouncing-tail/


This rough had the general motion of the punch figured out in the last one, but look at that crazy leg on the left. that is one crappy overlapping action...does he have rheumatism or something?.



I tend to make my keys TOO unique so when animated they just look like scribbles jumping everywhere, so I went back and redid that stuff to make a better arc. the arm on the left specially has a very arcy motion, the legs I just redrew so they kept still :p

I've read you say "you already know this stuff so it's easy for you"...not really, you just have to put the effort in every time, you always have to observe real life movements, think of the principles and work trough it, removing what doesnt work. The amount of observation evident on Wolf's edit probably didnt come easy either. So try to enjoy it, and if you dont...focus on another aspect of making art for a bit :p god knows animation isnt the most rewarding thing all the time.
So when someone gives you an edit, please try to break it down aspect by aspect like I did here, step by step bit by bit. Someone who did an edit like that would probably be willing to explain whatever is too mistifying for you to understand if you point it out and ask.

followtrough


Look at the shape of the coat thing as he turns his shoulders. look at the way the pantlegs change shape just a little as hits the punch to show the impact in a subtle way.
Think of what happens to them as if they were lagging behind the body, they have no will so whatever they do is because the body just moved and now they are either falling because the support is gone or being pulled by what just moved because they're attached to it, the combination of trying to fall but being pulled at the same time is what creates that ~ shape we often like to give them. Then, when the rest of the body stops the cloth tries to keep it's movement. that's what the pantlegs do in Wold's edit, they jump forward when the punch connects because they still have the impulse of the punch


I could have animated the hair or his little coat thing but I fucking love swipes so I went for the ice effects.
it kills me that you have an ice effect and you dont use it at all, you just recolor his fists. you can do a smokey ice like I did, you can do little shards that get attracted to his fists...you can do snowflakes, you can do bigass crystals....but use it! you dont even have to be as overboard as I was, half of this anim could not have the icey swipes and it'd still be great....it probably would be better, swipes are for me like lensflares are for abrahms :p

Your idea of using ice as a way of holding pivot parts is great, that would really shine if you put a lot of emphasis into balance and lines of gravity, then freeze the pivot and whatever is leading the action...it'd be amazing =)

some more wips to remind you that it's always an effort :p




EDIT: gotta admit, the way there is no indication of anatomy in this style of yours makes it  very easy to just grab a 3x3 brush and scribble frame in and go to the next, so much that I couldnt resist making the other 2 hits :p

I know what I did is not really like what Wolf did, I have more exagerated movements while his are a bit more grounded and you're probably going for something more like that, but I just have more fun doing stuff like this and these exagerated poses better exemplify the sort of dynamism lacking in yours. again, mostly it's about what proko says in his gesture video https://youtu.be/74HR59yFZ7Y?t=3m8s
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 12:25:46 am by Conceit »

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 07:15:39 am
After looking at that a bunch of times, I think trying your dynamic type of stuff will probably do me a bit more good that trying to make it grounded.  Comparing some of my other animations in the Hyper Light Drifter esque style, they're definitely not grounded, and they have a lot more diversity in frames because of it.

Otherwise, I'll see what I can gather from the video and all the edits/redos people made, and definitely expand on ice shenanigans.





Also, I tried saving B.O.B.'s animation and for some reason it only has like one frame and the rest are cut in half for some reason.  Does anyone know what's going on with that?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 07:18:46 am by Rosier »

Offline Probo

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #27 on: June 08, 2015, 09:25:17 am
^ his rise seems a bit slow, heres an edit with more acceleration

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #28 on: June 16, 2015, 06:48:53 am


Remade the first hit with 6 frames, mostly following the conventions of the examples.  Still not as extreme in terms of motion as it, but mostly based on Conceit's. 


Assuming I'm on the right track now, I'll work on the follow ups and shading.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #29 on: June 16, 2015, 10:08:06 pm


I like the effects you've done on this one, the puffy smoke fades of pretty well. are you animating in something that has onion skinning? that is, a program that lets you view a transparent version of the previous frame as you draw? that helps a lot with making cool fx.

I'm flattered every time you want to do that Rosier =) but my animations are not perfect to be honest and what I'm most trying to teach you is the stuff about gesture, action lines and balance.
try making an animation where you have to rotate his head and his shoulders OR hips, and try to make that as well as you can, I think that's one thing that would help you a lot, if you have the hang of that you could tweak his pose with more confidence. you're redrawing things more on this one but the torso or the head are still not rotating.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #30 on: June 16, 2015, 10:46:59 pm


I like the effects you've done on this one, the puffy smoke fades of pretty well. are you animating in something that has onion skinning? that is, a program that lets you view a transparent version of the previous frame as you draw? that helps a lot with making cool fx.

I'm flattered every time you want to do that Rosier =) but my animations are not perfect to be honest and what I'm most trying to teach you is the stuff about gesture, action lines and balance.
try making an animation where you have to rotate his head and his shoulders OR hips, and try to make that as well as you can, I think that's one thing that would help you a lot, if you have the hang of that you could tweak his pose with more confidence. you're redrawing things more on this one but the torso or the head are still not rotating.

I use Gamer Maker (For better or worse, it's just what I prefer) which doesn't have any onion skinning. There's a lot of flipping between frames to compare, though.

And it doesn't matter if they're perfect or not, they're definitely getting the message across.  Most of the effects were just me doing what I saw.

That would be next on the list. I was thinking the next attack could be a kick with his lighter colored leg, which would, if I could make it correctly, involve twisting the entire body.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 02:11:43 am
cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZSIV21GMzA#t=52
maybe try doing something from here? being able to observe and exagerate stuff like this is what'll make you good on your own

oh and check this page maybe it helps?
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QlZtUEDW3ww/TnO2bncA8FI/AAAAAAAAV9Q/MbIswjJacns/s1600/preston_blair_how_to_animate_film_cartoons_29.jpg
from preston blair's cartoon book
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 04:17:52 am by Conceit »

Offline Swifty

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 06:16:33 am
Rosier, if you have GameMaker:Studio the latest versions of the sprite editor has onion skinning, which really helps!

They did a bunch of other improvements as well that I can't think of off the top of my head. Also just in case you didn't know in the editor the 1 & 2 keys cycle back and forth between frames :)

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #33 on: June 24, 2015, 05:59:51 am
Rosier, if you have GameMaker:Studio the latest versions of the sprite editor has onion skinning, which really helps!

They did a bunch of other improvements as well that I can't think of off the top of my head. Also just in case you didn't know in the editor the 1 & 2 keys cycle back and forth between frames :)

I've got Game Maker 8.1 free download.  It's all I really need, and it's free if I ever need to redownload it for whatever reason. 




Based on the Second/Third kick form of this:

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #34 on: June 28, 2015, 11:03:56 pm
hmm. I think it might be better to do the animation without the effects first.


You have a bit of anticipation with him sort of ducking before doing his dash which is good, then he sort of just lands still and the ice effect replaces the leg and does the attack, so you dont really see the little twisting motions of his shoulder and hips or how the arms move while the kick is made. you could also use a little overshot, ease in/out or whatever you feel like makes the feeling of recoil stronger.



I separated the two kicks you say you're using for ya. pick one and try to replicate the movements

Try doing just the standing kick no effects and no dashing for now.

if you need him to get closer before punching, make him step. when you do that think of how that step can be an anticipation for your kick. see how there's no actual kick there but you KNOW where he kicks? that's a lot of why those fast motion blurs in anime work, the anticipation is very well done so the kick is almost a foregone conclusion.




PARTY HARD! XD

i frankestenized the sort of thing you do in animation to save frames, you make poses far more extreme. Think of proko's exagerations in the gesture video. if it looks like a party hard it works XD


here I frankestenized the whole animation, made it far more exagerated and  cut it to less frames. When you know what you're doing with anticipation and the line of gravity you pick the exciting moments and mash them together, creating something that never happened but gets to the spirit of the motion in less frames

this is all very much how I do things but I'm trying to say it in a way that emphasizes how I interpret the basic principles. so if PPD or anyone is horrified by how much I'm butching it dont be afraid to say :p

 I keep insisting what I show you isnt perfect because it's not just the obviously crappy aspects that isnt perfect, even when I do my best I might get it wrong so that's why I encourage you to make your own observations
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 12:44:07 am by Conceit »

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #35 on: July 02, 2015, 04:27:02 am
I'll take another look at the frames and see if I can't come up with something better, thanks.

Offline dianaazura

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #36 on: July 16, 2015, 09:34:16 am
Ice probably isn't the best way to put it.  It the first sprite it's straight up ice, so that could probably do with some change, but the arm hammer is making his arms sub zero temperatures, meaning it's more of an aura of cold than actual ice.

Offline matildasherman

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #37 on: August 18, 2015, 09:16:01 pm
I definitely second that last opinion and just came in to acknowledge that. One does not simply stay in the same position with the feet throwing punches forward. It is unnatural and also inefficient as it produces insufficient kinetic energy to cause damage.

With left foot forward after the left arm delivers a punch, you can make the right foot move forward alongside the right arm in perfect synergy. This way, you get yourself a good combo, one that boxers do. You can even try for a double left and then right, will make it feel even more realistic and more combo-ish :)

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #38 on: August 19, 2015, 12:04:02 am
I definitely second that last opinion and just came in to acknowledge that. One does not simply stay in the same position with the feet throwing punches forward. It is unnatural and also inefficient as it produces insufficient kinetic energy to cause damage.

With left foot forward after the left arm delivers a punch, you can make the right foot move forward alongside the right arm in perfect synergy. This way, you get yourself a good combo, one that boxers do. You can even try for a double left and then right, will make it feel even more realistic and more combo-ish :)

Bit of a bump, but w/e. 

I haven't been working on this animation for a while, unfortunately. I've been meaning to, but I've been in between other stuff and a week long vacation as well.
I'm going to revisit this at some point soon and take into account all of the above stuff and try to rework it again, cuz I feel like I've fallen into the same trap of stifled movement.


This is what I've been working on, but I didn't post it because I felt like it wasn't... enough.  Even as I was looking at it completed, I felt it lacked the dynamism and force that I intended, and I've been looking at Guilty Gear's animations to improve it.  I'll probably have that done soon, but might as well post these now.

The idea is him summoning the wheel, then side arming it/overheading it forward.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #39 on: August 24, 2015, 02:43:59 am


The new version. Based heavily on one of Sol Badguy's attacks.  I can't seem to find an actually animated version of it, though.

Offline Gil

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #40 on: August 24, 2015, 07:00:43 pm
Some squash and stretch maybe?

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #41 on: August 25, 2015, 11:30:09 pm
Probably a bit less that what you have there, but that and a longer aftereffect looks considerably better.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #42 on: August 28, 2015, 10:41:07 pm
I heard you were looking for this?

found at figthersgeneration
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sol-a5.html
so the timing is probably NOTHING like ingame, still if you wanna check the frames, there they are.

I think the basic motion is good. You could further exagerate it a bit if you wanted though. Notice how when sol ends his arc both hands are at their most extended and then they slowly wind down? that's an overshot, the kind of exageration you could do and you actually toned down a bit here.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 11:30:31 pm by Conceit »

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #43 on: August 28, 2015, 11:52:54 pm
I heard you were looking for this?

found at figthersgeneration
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sol-a5.html
so the timing is probably NOTHING like ingame, still if you wanna check the frames, there they are.

I think the basic motion is good. You could further exagerate it a bit if you wanted though. Notice how when sol ends his arc both hands are at their most extended and then they slowly wind down? that's an overshot, the kind of exageration you could do and you actually toned down a bit here.

I didn't realize that had pages!  I had to download a pack with every individual frame, connect that attack together and use it as reference...  That ought to be a really helpful source, though, thanks.


I'll keep that in mind in case I ever come back to this specific animation in the future.  Otherwise I'm probably going to work on different ones and maybe get back to the one on the OP.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #44 on: September 03, 2015, 05:33:49 am


Punch, uppercut, ice pillar.

So yeah, I totally remade the second hit.  I noticed that I could angle the second punch a bit on one frame, and then I figured out what you see here. 
Bit 'fantasy,' but a standard combo nonetheless.

The proportions probably super break on the ground punch, but not terribly noticeable IMO.  Might go back on that if it's too much.

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #45 on: September 03, 2015, 09:15:46 pm
Cool stuff as usual!  :)



Work on the timing some.
You have everything happen at sort of the same speed.
Try to make separate moments that chain together.

Also the impact of him hitting the ground looks weak.
This is a result of you linearly moving him from start to finish: 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5
Try moving him past where you want to stop: 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 7 -> 5
This will add more visual force.

Experiment more with follow thru elements.
Use the hair and clothing to your advantage to imply motion.

Many other things could be improved, but no time to edit or comment.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 09:18:07 pm by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #46 on: September 04, 2015, 02:16:31 am
nice!

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #47 on: September 07, 2015, 01:06:11 am


Added a few hang frames and integrated a few of the effect improvements.  I didn't make him hold it quite as long, though, but the slow down is definitely an improvement.  Also tinkered with his legs when he's in the uppercut, cuz before there was a pretty extreme dip where his lighter leg jumped.

Offline AimlessZealot

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #48 on: September 07, 2015, 03:53:15 am
I think you might consider making his back hand (right hand) during the ice pillar an open palm pushing towards the ice pillar. Currently while it all is beginning to gel, the ice pillar is happening behind him, in a direction he's making no clear initiating gesture, while he is facing away. It seems less like something he is doing as something that someone is doing near him. Either his body language or the particles need to better indicate a relationship between his actions and that pillar forming, otherwise it's really offputting.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #49 on: September 09, 2015, 03:20:37 am
I think you might consider making his back hand (right hand) during the ice pillar an open palm pushing towards the ice pillar. Currently while it all is beginning to gel, the ice pillar is happening behind him, in a direction he's making no clear initiating gesture, while he is facing away. It seems less like something he is doing as something that someone is doing near him. Either his body language or the particles need to better indicate a relationship between his actions and that pillar forming, otherwise it's really offputting.


So something a bit like this?

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #50 on: September 11, 2015, 08:36:33 pm
I think the whole gesture is moving the way it's moving already, changing the palm a bit is not really going to make any difference, just make the animation less focused. the hand that's producing the pillar is clearly the one punching the ground, involving the other one would be inconsistent.
We've seen games have people punching the ground and pillars coming out anywhere the characters want by now, besides the fact the previous hit is the same color as this one.
 if you feel like you really have to do something to imply it maybe just give him eyes and point them towards the pillar as he punches the ground, or hell, slightly make his whole torso turn towards the pillar as it comes out, sort of reacting to it...you know like the way you sort of straighten up in your seat when you make a char jump in a videogame.


also, since you added movement to that arm I noticed that you kinda just shortened it, it's not really bent or in perspective or anything it's just short...do fix that
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 08:42:29 pm by Conceit »

Offline big brother

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #51 on: September 11, 2015, 09:00:36 pm
Sometimes having fewer unique frames can lend weight and impact to an animation. I did a quick edit, either removing frames or duplicating existing ones to produce the attached gif.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #52 on: September 12, 2015, 05:49:31 am
I think the whole gesture is moving the way it's moving already, changing the palm a bit is not really going to make any difference, just make the animation less focused. the hand that's producing the pillar is clearly the one punching the ground, involving the other one would be inconsistent.
We've seen games have people punching the ground and pillars coming out anywhere the characters want by now, besides the fact the previous hit is the same color as this one.
 if you feel like you really have to do something to imply it maybe just give him eyes and point them towards the pillar as he punches the ground, or hell, slightly make his whole torso turn towards the pillar as it comes out, sort of reacting to it...you know like the way you sort of straighten up in your seat when you make a char jump in a videogame.


also, since you added movement to that arm I noticed that you kinda just shortened it, it's not really bent or in perspective or anything it's just short...do fix that
I'll try to make it so he turns, and if it doesn't work out I'll leave it to just the punch.  Either of those would involve reworking the arms.

Sometimes having fewer unique frames can lend weight and impact to an animation. I did a quick edit, either removing frames or duplicating existing ones to produce the attached gif.

I'm not a huge fan of the complete stop.  I kinda went for a middle ground approach buy making the frames you and PixelPiledriver doubled instead have two very similar frames with very little movement.  It has the same sort of hang, but without the complete stop.



Edit:
Couldn't get the turn thing to work without him just becoming Gumby.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 07:35:27 am by Rosier »

Offline Gil

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #53 on: September 12, 2015, 12:27:56 pm
The problem is that the edits feel like he's punching really strongly, while your version has almost no force behind it. There's no real impact.

Offline Rosier

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #54 on: September 13, 2015, 03:03:42 am
The problem is that the edits feel like he's punching really strongly, while your version has almost no force behind it. There's no real impact.




Followed the same frame layout, but smoothed out the transitions so it isn't a complete stop.  I think I only read the doubled frames part and missed the less unique frames.

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Re: Fighting Game Animations

Reply #55 on: September 13, 2015, 04:14:32 pm
Yup, that works. Now I'm feeling the hit.

Offline Rosier

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #56 on: October 03, 2015, 01:05:15 am

I plan on adding on to this heavily.  For starters, arms, but afterwords a follow up attack/combo. 

For now, though, it's purely focused on the legs, which are doing the Ali Shuffle.


I want to make sure the legs look how they're supposed to, and then have the head, body and arms that follow the motions.  The black line on the chest is just kind of a marker to indicate where the chest is facing.

Offline Rosier

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #57 on: October 11, 2015, 12:14:50 am


Made the character a bit less placeholder, and also added the arms and a ponytail.  Next up is a quick combo or something like that.

Offline Neophos

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #58 on: October 12, 2015, 04:37:53 pm
Look at your reference more. When Ali does the shuffle, his shoulders and head are almost completely still in space. The only thing that moves are his elbows and his feet. Your character looks like it's doing the walking animation from River City Ransom but faster.

Offline Rosier

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #59 on: October 14, 2015, 03:49:30 am
Look at your reference more. When Ali does the shuffle, his shoulders and head are almost completely still in space. The only thing that moves are his elbows and his feet. Your character looks like it's doing the walking animation from River City Ransom but faster.


The GIF was more of an explanation of what she was doing, so it isn't the exact same, hence the arms, but that does make sense.  I'll probably put the head motions in punches and such.

Offline IrresponsibleFreelancer

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #60 on: October 18, 2015, 05:26:46 pm
One thing i think you should do to really get the effect of the shuffle is motion blur the legs a bit.  Or at least a bit more than you may have already.  Without the fluidity of an added motion blur it looks a bit stiff and not as cool.  Even in the Ali gif you get a bit of motion blur.  It looks really cool though and is a really good idea.  :crazy:
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Offline Rosier

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #61 on: October 18, 2015, 07:34:37 pm
One thing i think you should do to really get the effect of the shuffle is motion blur the legs a bit.  Or at least a bit more than you may have already.  Without the fluidity of an added motion blur it looks a bit stiff and not as cool.  Even in the Ali gif you get a bit of motion blur.  It looks really cool though and is a really good idea.  :crazy:

I added a bit of blur when the legs cross, but I can try to add more; maybe if I add another detail like a leg band or something it might come across better.  I'm more or less satisfied with the motion, so adding some variation seems good.


In other news, a One Two Punch.  The shuffle flows into to this, but it looks a bit weaker than I'd like it to...  Maybe the follow up might help when I finish that.

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #62 on: October 18, 2015, 09:35:26 pm


   If the character is meant to be a boxer, the posturing is the opposite of what it should be. In other words, your character's leg is moving with the arm that is leading the punch. It should be the opposite, in that the leg on the same side of the arm should be staying back to stabilize and exert more power on the punch. If it's a jab, there really shouldn't be much movement on the legs at all.
   I suggest paying close attention to the way boxers train and look at their feet positioning in comparison to their body and arms. In fact, try to do what your character is doing in real life, and honestly ask yourself if that is a wise way to move one's body for an attack.
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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #63 on: October 20, 2015, 03:29:03 am


Switched the arm sides and lessened the leg movement for the quick jab, plus added a few more details to make it easier to read.

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #64 on: October 21, 2015, 11:41:13 pm


Switched the arm sides and lessened the leg movement for the quick jab, plus added a few more details to make it easier to read.

Looking a little better.

   I decided to give the sprite a quick edit, just to kinda' calm him down abit. I feel like the colors you choose don't have much separation. in some cases. It makes it a bit hard for the eyes to distinguish in some parts. I tried working with the palette you used and edited it with colors that were more distinguishable. Here's a sample of it in this idle animation I did:


   
   I feel like the pose you have seems a bit off for a boxer. That's not to say that all boxers have the above stance, but it's far more common. In the animation above, I gave him a bit of a hunched position where his fists are a bit more closer to the face, to allow for mixture of guard and punches during battle. The version on the left(ver.1), is a more subtle idle, whereas the idle on the right(ver.2) is more springy and active. You can get a better idea by the little dot beside each character, which is set at the top of the head. You can see the extremes the dots bounce up and down to, to understand the differences in distance with the character's movement. Of course, It's all based on the attitude of the character and his personality, but thought that would be important to mention.



   The jab is there to demonstrate how that punch can be transitioned from the idle. This is just in the case that your attempting a jab animation, as I can't tell what exactly you're going for. The stance allows for it, with minimal movement of the legs and body. However, it seems like you're trying to mix the Ali shuffle with a combination of straights of sorts(like Balrog/Bison of Street Fighter fame) so I did a quick(rough) edit of it:



   When Ali does the shuffle he does set back JUST a bit. His arms hang back a bit to prep for either a jab, a straight, or a combination of a jab into a straight. The shoulders and arms don't move as much as your sprite is as well. Also, the thighs aren't moving as much either. Transitioned from the idle to show the stance can be done with that type of showboat style. Of course, there is the combo in the end which can be set up after the shuffle, so I added it below as well:



   It pretty much resembles Balrog/Bison/Boxer from the Street Fighter games. I'm just referencing it as that is what it seems like you're going for; two straights being produced from the legs(which is why the sturdy leg on the side of the punching arm is what sets back for stability and effectiveness in the power of the punch). Of course, there is a quick couple of frames during the transition of each key pose. Timing is sped up for each punch key, to make the impact of the punch seem more realistic.

   Again, none of this is what you have to go with or follow to the Tee. I see you're trying to go for dramatic affect in your animations via Conceit's posts, which is fine. The only thing I can recommend is to study general movement, so you know where the dramatic movement stems from in the end. Also, as a general criticism, it seems all your characters have stick figure bodies with round heads. I just wonder if you will be attempting more complex shapes in animation in the future. Here's to hopin'!


Cheers and good luck!
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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #65 on: October 22, 2015, 10:37:32 pm
Color/Pose Stuff

The colors are a definite improvement, but, at least for the moment, I'm not too fussed about shading as I'm just focused on animation.  When/If I'm satisfied with the motion, I may fully shade it, or I may not, and I'll definitely scrutinize yours if I do.  The face on mine definitely does need more differentiation now, though.  Also, it's a she, but that doesn't really matter in this context.

I need to make a sort of "idle animation" like yours, which would be the default stance  The shuffle to punch is just linking the animations together, but for now there's no default.  That being said, I want this character to have a much looser feel.  I recently finished catching up to boxing manga Hajime no Ippo, so the comparison here is Ippo (Whose stance is almost identical to yours) and Miyata (Whose more focused on speed and doesn't guard much and in fact occasionally drops his hands altogether).  She leans more to the speed side, which would involve more active arm movement, but the shuffle further exaggerates it (Though that doesn't appear to be accurate...  I'll look into that more).  Her non moving stance will look a bit more like Dudley's than yours. (Similar shoulder/waist movement, too, though that was somewhat unintentional.  Then again, this isn't the shuffle, so that might have been my mistake.)


Punch Stuff

Again, I need an idle for a simple jab, but these punches are step ins from the shuffle.  Once I add a normal stance, I'll add a normal jab.

After looking at a bunch of animated gifs, there's a few poses Ali tends to take.  One has him still leaning in a bit forward, but I'll probably work more on the lean back and tone down the arms.
Otherwise, I'll look more into linking everything and improving the current punches.



TLDR; I need to make an idle pose, may have confused Ali Shuffle with normal boxer movement, and look more into said movements.





And yeah, I tend to default to a very limited number of body types, typically really short or really tall.  I might try a more unique design for my next animation to branch out though...  that seems like a good idea.

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #66 on: October 28, 2015, 04:55:14 am


I went ahead and shaded it, sans the hair highlights for now.  This gives off a good impression of what I want the character to give off: loose, somewhat impatient, and constantly ticking or just general inexperience.

I want the default stance to be perfected before I continue on to anything else, so anything that can be substantially improved?

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #67 on: October 28, 2015, 06:35:10 am
Animation-wise, I cant see too much horribly wrong, but the height of the torso-to-hip area seems to shrink too badly and the shoulders are a bit out of place. You could indicate some more depth by making the forearms swing in and out of the background/foreground as they move because, right now, he kind of looks fly-swatted upper-body-wise.

His shoulders are twitchy, which, I know you'd like a nervous tick sort of thing going on, but that sort of thing would be best indicated via face/head/neck than with his body much. It is way too distracting as is, if that's what you're going for.

Lastly, and not as importantly I guess, but he kinda looks like he has boobs. Men's hips aren't wider than their shoulders are across. This oversight just makes the pixel placement on his chest more glaringly female-looking... :(
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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #68 on: October 29, 2015, 01:02:08 am
Animation-wise, I cant see too much horribly wrong, but the height of the torso-to-hip area seems to shrink too badly and the shoulders are a bit out of place. You could indicate some more depth by making the forearms swing in and out of the background/foreground as they move because, right now, he kind of looks fly-swatted upper-body-wise.

His shoulders are twitchy, which, I know you'd like a nervous tick sort of thing going on, but that sort of thing would be best indicated via face/head/neck than with his body much. It is way too distracting as is, if that's what you're going for.

Lastly, and not as importantly I guess, but he kinda looks like he has boobs. Men's hips aren't wider than their shoulders are across. This oversight just makes the pixel placement on his chest more glaringly female-looking... :(



Messed with the torso area, made the arms circle around a bit more towards the screen, and hopefully untwitched the shoulders.  Also toyed with the hair so it doesn't look like she's twisting so much.

Also, again, she's a she.  I made the breasts more noticeable because of that exact reason.

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Re: [WIP] Boxing Footwork

Reply #69 on: November 02, 2015, 04:49:24 am


A quick jab followed by rapid jabs, based mostly on the first strike of Dudley's Special.
 

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Re: [WIP] Charging Animation

Reply #70 on: November 11, 2015, 04:57:08 am


Probably'll go back for a right hook or something on the other, but for now, something I've dubbed as a charging animation of sorts.  Without bothering too much about reasons as to why, she's got stuff on her back that charges her up, which is what the grey things that pop up behind her are.  I felt like having a slow lead up to a sudden burst would convey thought to motion well.

Also wanted to play with effects for the sake of effects, rather than as hit indication, and while I like the concept I've gone for with the spikes, I feel like it could be improved.



Side notes, the white thing on her chest is her heart, which is why one shows up in the burst, indicating she's been powered up.  Connected to the heart is a blue cord that goes to her left earpiece, almost like headphones.  These are elements of the design, so I felt like highlighting them somehow.

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Re: [WIP] Charging Animation

Reply #71 on: December 16, 2015, 08:40:38 am


Tried for a forward punch, modeled after Ryu's here.

Wanted it to be a bit snappier, though, plus the after effects and all.

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #72 on: December 16, 2015, 10:58:09 am
Not sure if you've realized though, your reference is not doing a forward punch but a hook. You can clearly see the twist in his torso and that he swings his arm around in an arc. Comparing both it seems like ryu would be able to punch through a wall, while yours seems fragile and afraid (The frame he's looking away doesnt make sense since his torso doesnt twist as much so it looks like a "dont hurt me i dont wanna hurt you" kind of thing going on) The punch itself feels rather week since he's tilting back his torso, which removes a lot of forward force.

Normally with a strong punch you'd also position our legs contrary to your arms, so left punch, right leg forwards, to have enough leverage through the left leg,hips torso, shoulder and finally fist. For a hook it is obviously different since the power comes from the torque of your hip and torso which propels your arm around in an arc.

Also what i just noticed, rubber legs  ^-^

--

edit: now that i think of it that might be the reason for ali's foot shuffling. normally the stance would tell you where a strong punch would coming from. moving your feet like that though, will not only distract your opponent but also will not allow your opponent to easily anticipate your punching arm. I dont know a lot about boxing but it seems logical to me
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:10:34 am by wzl »

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #73 on: December 16, 2015, 02:36:08 pm
The most important thing in movement of the body is the hips. Almost all correct movement in humans originates from the hips. Ryu's hips in the example have the highest energy of all his body parts. In yours, there's no hip movement at all. This results in the torso not rotating either, the arm feeling disconnected and thus the punch weaker. In martial arts you are always taught that the striking limb (for example fist) is just the extension of your core.

Another important fact is the body parts that are locked. Example Ryu locks his front foot, yours doesn't, making the whole pose weaker. Another lock point seems to be the back arm, which does kinda lock in your animation, but without much intent (it's a bit too soft, you want to exaggerate the lock). Lastly, you lock on the back foot, which is just wrong. He's hitting with left arm, which is connected to the right foot, so if you lock that foot, again, you're breaking the movement.

Basically, just study your examples more. Try to look for gestures, like a limb behaving as a lock or loose, try to figure out the lines of movement, like the force of the punch flowing from left fist to right foot and being originated in the hip rotation.

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #74 on: December 19, 2015, 09:14:08 am
I'm starting to think I should stop relying so much on references...
I've elected to scrap what I've got so far and start on a custom animation without a reference.  I've got the basic skeleton and I feel it's a bit more inspired and includes more motion and everything.  Plus it gives me a bit more freedom.


In other news, I'm considering a palette swap. There's no particular reason as to why, but I inverted the pants and shirt colors and I'd like anyone's input to which is better.

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #75 on: December 19, 2015, 10:29:52 pm
That pose is pretty good, I like it.

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #76 on: December 19, 2015, 11:45:17 pm
That pose is pretty good, I like it.


That's been the starting frame for all of the non shaded animations for this character and I try to make all of the animations come to a natural conclusion back to it.  Everything loops back to it.
I also made this idle animation a while ago, but I felt it didn't really warrant it's own post because it's not really dynamic or anything, but might as well now.

Only things of note is that the legs were skeletoned off of Sol Badguy's idle and he's breathing into his hands as the looping animation. 

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Re: [WIP] Misc Animations

Reply #77 on: December 28, 2015, 09:52:39 am


Wound up with the rough skeleton of sorts.  Didn't bother with the arms or details or anything, but I think I've more or less got the motions I want down sans a bit of clean up.