AuthorTopic: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)  (Read 10281 times)

Offline Friend

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thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

on: February 23, 2015, 03:53:10 am
I thought I'd try something different by asking for better eyes to critique a finished work. 

Any insight into how I can improve would be great, as I think my current progress with this piece will be a stepping stone or "level-up", as I think I'm starting to get the hang of things.

The problem is, when I look at it, I see nothing inherently wrong.  Solid seeming workflow, the clusters are fine, I avoided banding, the palette works, the attention to detail is there, and overall the pixel tech seems fine.  The problem is something about it still looks a bit amateurish to me, and I can't pinpoint why.


Offline 32

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 04:04:46 am
The pixelling and rendering is top notch but I think your problem is more fundamental. I can't exactly tell but what's going on, what is the yellow thing coming out of his elbow? Is that his raised leg? If that is his leg, it in particular stands out as being very wrong anatomically. His waist is also very very thick. His raised arm is far too short, as are the fingers. His head is coming out of the wrong part of the torso, and is a bit too small. The pose itself could be more dynamic and is not balanced correctly, he would fall right over forwards, he should be leaning back a bit.

My suggestion is look up some references and draw his anatomy sans clothes roughly and don't move onto clothes until you are satisfied with that. As I said the pixels are very nice, the drapery with the patterning is really wonderful :).

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 04:09:47 am
There's an imbalance of focus on pixel technique and focus on structure.
The first step you have is seemingly made of only outer edge lines. --> like a line silhouette
It would help a lot for you to start the image out of structural lines that build the character from the inside out, measure interactions of the characters form, balance, define his bounding box, etc.

There is also a lack of change in the outline itself from one step to the next.
the colors exist within the line and there is little interaction between them.

The character moves up and down slightly across variations.
Use a grid and grid snap to easily move each new variation over and keep it aligned.

For a single image like this, if you are using a software with frames, it can be a helpful process to make a new frame each step of the way.
That way all changes you make are overlapping and you can scrub thru the frames and see the changes instantly overlay the same space and not have to compare them side by side.
When you're done exporting a sheet would also result in an aligned sequence of your process.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 08:12:51 am
Hey there, It's really cool you're interested in stuff like pixel cluster theory, but you might be jumping the gun a little bit. I definitely echo the comments above. Your process is solid in the sense that it's very logical and rational workflow, but your start was not good. You have a lot of cool things going on in the image, with some impressive drapery and folds but it doesn't get to shine due to the flawed figure underneath.

It's always a good idea to fully draw out the figure underneath the clothing so that you know where everything is located, and how the folds will follow the forms of the body. The center of gravity of the human figure is always at the pit of the neck, so for standing poses like this, you can just draw a line down and see where that back leg needs to be for him to be balanced.






Good luck with the piece and I hope this is of some help   :y:

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 11:48:17 am
All of this help is so good and perfect, I feel a restless stir inside me  :D Thanks!

@ 32 I understand better now.  I couldn't see the anatomy errors because I imitated a reference (the character is from virtua fighter), but I suppose I learned that doing this will lead to problems because the anatomy becomes different when translated to pixel art?

@PPD Thank you for verbalizing what Ryumaru showed, because without the words to explain it, I probably would not have understood it very well.  Also thanks for the tips.

@Ryumaru, thank you for the GORGEOUS edit!  It looks totally badass.  And I can see how I should approach things, and I see how I should have developed a stronger core to build from.  Details can only dress a poor start I know now.

I hate to be that guy, but can anyone direct me to good reads and information on learning art theory?  I've just been winging it, and I can't find much information online, probably because I'm not looking in the right places.  I'm not the best at just learning by seeing though as I'm honestly not the most visually gifted.  It helps me to see it in words like how PPD helped me understand Ryumaru's edit. 

Lastly, please don't laugh if when I come back with another try that it looks horrendous.  My art fundamentals are near zero.  The good news is I am determined, and once I become better as an artist, I think my pixel understanding will not only be put to use, but possibly improve too :)

Again, thanks at everyone

Offline 32

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 12:33:34 pm
Awesome edit ryu ;D

Generally it's best to reference from life (stand up, do it, look in a mirror. Ask someone else to do it) or from a photograph. I always advocate for trying out a pose yourself regardless of whether you're using reference to really get a feel for what's going on. When you reference from another's art you're just going to be compounding their mistakes (intentional or not). I had a look at some images from virtual fighter and they look reasonably solid anatomically, I would say more likely you've just had issues observing the reality of what you're seeing. There's no reason the anatomy in a picture drawn in pixels should be any different to anything else.

I'd suggest looking up Andrew Loomis' books. They're pretty easy to find digitally, Figure Drawing For All It's Worth should be of particular interest to you. If you've got some money to dedicate to it The Structure of Man is fairly cheap and gives a good detailed explanation of the bones and muscles in the body. You could argue that his anatomy isn't exactly spot on but coupled with observation of your own the knowledge is very powerful. And of course if you're very serious about it have a look for life drawing classes in your area, hands on practice with a tutor and a model really can't be topped imo.

Please do give it another try, post it earlier next time and I'll be sure to provide some tips :y:
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:39:00 pm by 32 »

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 12:58:02 pm
thank you x infinity 32.  i will read the books, practice, and come back with another piece in the same vein as this one.  i will post the structural foundation first.  i hope no one minds that it may take a long while, as my pace is very slow.  nonetheless, i will be back in this thread :crazy:

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 07:40:54 pm
I think I have a better idea of what I'm doing..what do you guys think of this outline?    (before I add in all of the internal structure lines. 



EDIT- I see fatal errors.  Another edit coming very shortly!  No one move! xD
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 08:01:56 pm by Friend »

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #8 on: February 23, 2015, 08:12:55 pm
Looks pretty good, some quick crits are the groin is too high up compared to the hips, there is a weird line around his left shoulder and pectoral area, and if the lines perpendicular to his legs are supposed to show the knees, they are a little low, and finally his left leg seems a bit longer then his right.

Good start though

oh didnt see your edit until i finished writing this, but w/e

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Re: thoughts on a "finished piece" (C+C)

Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 08:24:21 pm
here's a much better version I think.  :)



@ Mr. Fahrenheit, thanks, really good eye there :)

cue the sassiness  :-*




« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 02:51:08 am by Friend »