AuthorTopic: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else  (Read 8039 times)

Offline tocky

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on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

on: February 06, 2015, 06:33:45 pm
(cross-posted from tigsource)

i tell you, if you are not interested in this topic, do not post here.

alright. this isnt the second campaign. that's june. this is the thread where tocky tells you what he's been working on lately. and this thread will not be a mighty thread that spans ten pages, or it might not be, because this would be too good, too perfect, and i promise you that this thread will be worse and not as good as we deserve, in the more-traditional tigsource style. i will pretend i am one of you and not some kind of strange space wizard. but let me tell you, i am that. i will smoke some weed so that - i will be more likely to forget what i am saying - and so i will be better at explaining all this weird space wizard math to you. for you, this thread is a gift. i know we have had our troubles, but i tell you this is true.

because i am now devoted to being WORSE and not BETTER in deference to those persons who do not wish to see me, i will keep everything in this first post, even my replies to things that other people have said in this thread. i am on tigsource. and i am asked to frame my replies a certain way. this is not as GOOD as replying in the way i am accustomed to to, but it allows me to respond and not tie up the archive and also to keep in accord with filthy accelerationist principles. i will blog SLOW in that thread, ie not as fast as before, but i will blog FASTER in this one, and also i will include a CHALLENGE at the end of this post, for you the reader, because i wish for you to respond, and also because there havent been any OFFICIAL COMPETITIONS LATELY.

so like, this is in the art forum. what are you working on lately, tocky? this is a bad question because it assumes an idea must be new to be worth your time. the BUDDHA is not a new idea, though, and the BUDDHA is worth money.

so i was thinking about the doom roguelike and i think it is a shame that there is only one doom roguelike. liek it is a good doom rogue but we deserve more of them. we should hug every doom. we should hug every rogue. and so we should hug every doomrogue - map all possible dooms onto all possible rogues.

so, while there is already a doom roguelike, we will make another doom roguelike. this is not as good as making a totally new mind blowing idea but we will try to sneak those into the game.

roguelikes are drawn in text mode - that is, using a symbolic palette - which means that we dont really need an artist, all we need is a programmer, or something better than a programmer.

roguelikes use a symbolic palette - the ascii range - and a color palette - whatever you like. lets say rgb333 so soething like the amstrad cpc.

( btw i did not map this palette today - i mapped it a long time ago and you can see it on my livejournal among other palettes that i mapped at that time - all these posts are good and tbh you can use the Good Ideas within if you wish, i will not try to sue you. if you use my ideas to make bad games, though i will not be super happy about this. this is one way to kill me. another way is to tell me that i am wrong, and not think about whether i am right. another way is to take a thing i like and then get a picture of calvin pissing on that thing and to show it to me. did you know that calvin was named for john calvin and hobbes for thomas hobbes? i have digressed. you can see that i made this map in a pixel artist way and not a programmer way, because i am more of a pixel purist and less of a programmer - like most of us here. )

i later realised that even here i am being not generous enough. we should use all colors and all symbols, and not just the ones our ancestors did. we should use every palette and not the same palette every time. but whatever, these small spaces are still nice. i would use them to make games and i have done this - only they are small.

so we have access to 32-bit color (do they have 64-bit color now?) and the entire unicode range including - and this is the best bit - all of the emojis. but also like the georgian characters, the han characters, futhark runes, everything you can think of. you name it, its in there. we can make roguelikes that show any of these symbols in any of these colors.

so we can map every color to every symbol, but even here we are not being generous enough. we will need a background and foreground color for a roguelike and - hey, why not map every symbol back onto every other symbol.

bgcolor * fgcolor * bgsymbol *fgsymbol

so now we have a symbol we draw in front, and the symbol we draw behind that, for example, but instead we could blend them or chop and screw them or animate attack and decay or or something. we could get a pixel artist to draw every combination but lets not do that because it seems exhausting.we do not want the pixel artist to be exhausted, we do not want him to be extinct, we do not want him to be dead. how can this best be achieved?

in fact you can map the symbols back on themselves 16 times, and so have 16 frames of animation to mess around with.

so instead of just one guy in a turban emoji we have, for each symbol - a guy in a turban emoji version of every symbol in every symbolic language we can name. and not just for guys in turbans, also for giraffes or whatever. you can get a giraffe dragon and a ghost dragon and a dragon king and a king dragon if you map every symbol onto every other symbol. all of these are good puns, good names, and good urls. but only two characters long, so not a set of initials (3) that you enter into the high score table, and not a set of knuckle tattoos (4-4), but any 2 possible characters (2). but (2) is also a devil-number, even if we need it for binary systems. i tell you we need non-binary systems. the only good number is not even (12), which has lots of factors, but (n) which has all factors.

anyway i realised all this later. what i have uses more-traditional but not truly traditional symbols of the atascii range - but, like, with the symbols we would need to make doom, and not for text mode apps on telnet or whatever. the default dwarf fortress character set is a 16block atascii or something like that - i made a 10block one that was a popular heresy for a while, i made my own custom palette also, and all this is good, but listen - this is still a community which also does not show me the respect i deserve, one which tbh doesnt value my input either, but whatever. i made a character set, a palette, and i was working on the dwarf emojis when mayday took over for me, which is awful nice of him all things considered but it is important to note that i would not ask for this. and so we have the mayday set and not the tocky set we would have, which tbh would have been better. it cant happen now because mayday beat me with my own product, which is something that happens in these places quite a lot. but whatever. games are cheap these days and now i have to sell you this, the good idea, when truly you should just wish to buy it from me. in any case i now give it freely: use it. i dont care. i will not sue you. when the mayday set was on the tigs frontpage, in a way, i was on the front page - but not truly. i give you the doomscii (this is actually the second version, the first one had more likes on twitter, but i doubt anyone actually uses it because its sort of still a work-in-progress and i hadnt checked every tile for errors. but this one is more sound - it's rigorous - because it lines up with the grid better and if you find any errors ill try to fix them - i did this stuff in game maker 8, the last-good one, because i like the tile editor even though it is not the best tile editor. in the pixel editor in game maker 8 you can set up the grid to be whatever you want, different on the x and y axis, choose what color you want it to be, all this good stuff. you need to be able to see the grid when you draw this kind of thing. in a more-good tile editor than the game maker room editor id be able to zoom and use palettes and stuff, but i digress, heres the doomscii-v2, the one that should always work (but if theres still errors pls help me fix them) )

this might not look like much to you, but i promise you this: it is the monad.

these tiles are 12 by 12 and this is not by accident. i understand that 12 is not a power of 2, but its actually better than a power of 2, because it has more factors which means more good ways to slice it. thirds, sixths, halfs or quarters.

why would you want to break a tile into thirds? well you know how you do that 3-by-3 block thing, usually with with some extra inside corners so that you can make an autotile? well here you can treat each symbol like that, and the code for this isnt even super hard to do. all that matters is that you should want to have 12blocks instead of 8blocks or 16blocks - in fact this is intuitive. a programmer would tell you different, and this is what happened when i first came to the pixel art community - i switched from intuitive 12-blocks to traditional 8-blocks because i was told, immediately, they are more-right. but they're not really.

anyway - most of you are pixel purists like me, and and not programmers. many of you are pixel artists that have had to learn to be programmers. but in the future you will not have to be programmers because mcc or someone will have solved the problem. thats the most-good thing that could happen but this thing that is happening to you right now is still a good thing. now we're thinking with lizards: how can i make the all-games while not actually doing very much work?

but as pixel artists you can still get some use out of this thing: why not edit it to be more like the doomscii you would make? why not edit to still be a rogue but not a doom-rogue? put in mermaids or something.

as bonus content: i will also give you panels and bubbles:

so now we can make bullets and speech bubbles and particle effects and walls and stuff.

i realised after playin with the first set that i would need these tiles, also. but maybe we can do better than this: can you think of a set of 255 tiles that we havent defined that could fit in with these pages - do you think we could make a book of 16 pages that would contain all of the symbols we might want for a doomrogue game? what should go on those pages, then? if you tell me a good-enough idea for a third page, i will try to make it.

i have told you that 12 is better than 16 and yet i am still chained to this heretic number 16. can you make a set of 144 tiles that is better than this 256 tile map?

all of this should come to pass. should this scare us? wont it make pixel artists extinct? well obviously lots of people don't prefer roguelikes to not-roguelikes. but we can revolutionise games in the same way that we can with roguelikes - by understanding the block, the gender, the monad. it is not enough to ask, should we make these games - they are already being made. we should ask, how can we best make these games, in a way that still respects the work of creators? because i do not wish to make pixel artists extinct. noone should have to be dead in 2015. i wish to accelerate the discourse. i wish for the function of the pixel and of the artist to be better understood.

as a bonus content: my dad always framed my sexuality in terms of my little sister's sexuality. if i look at porn thats bad because what if my little sister found out about porn? this is not good for me and it's not good for my sister. it's not even good for my dad. there's a reason i dont call my dad more often. and there's a reason i dont come to tigsource more often.

so like, im not your dad and you're not mine. neither one of us is the other one's dad. each of us should be self-moderating and i understand that this is hard. why, tocky, would you ask me to consider sexuality - gender - a valid part of pixel art? why not?

doomscii's kind of a dumb pun and i apologise for it. but its also the monad, the gender, the block:

bg = doom * scii 
col = r * g * b
bgcol = bg * col

and then we can have as many bgcols as we need:

bgcol * bgcol * bgcol ...

this is an extensible language for roguelikes but more than this - it's an extensible language for dreams. its the monad. welcome to the lizard mud. we have the monad, and we have copy-and-paste, so we also have object-orientation. welcome to the lizard moo. but listen - read A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE. it's more likely than you think.

the maths is good when you map everything onto everything because it's not heavily notational - easy to read. this is a good language for games because it's easier to teach. this is why we should study puns and lyric poems and emotions and language and cellular automata and procedural generation, and the difference between motif and gender, and homestuck troll romance and the critter code and the nerd code and dragon code. this is why we should study transgenderism and transhumanism. because we wish to. can we make a doom where you can talk to the monsters? and if not why not? dont those monsters deserve to speak and have opinions about stuff, to argue with one another, and to be right? dont they deserve to be alive and not dead? i tell you we can take all those people who are not alive and bring them to life on our screens. have you played STRANGETHINKS SECRET HABITAT yet? bc that is a game that understands the monad.

so listen, i have come back. i will not be stopped. i could post all this shit somewhere else but im gonna post it here too. please make use of these concepts and symbols.

welcome to the new game, which is LEGACY. welcome to the new game, which is LEGION - this is lizard moo. welcome to the new meme. welcome to the new flesh. welcome to the lizard race.

i understand the monad and it is lizard people. the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

the first campaign is the treatises:
the second campaign i will talk about morrowind and how it is not the best game because it is not the monad. but it is better than what we have now.

i should mention that i am devoted to being worse and not better on tigsource, but here on wayofthepixel i can be better and not worse.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:31:17 am by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Helm

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #1 on: February 06, 2015, 08:35:17 pm
tocky, hi. I tried to follow your train of thought but I'm afraid I couldn't. Sorry I don't have anything more involved to say, I don't think you're going to get much response until you unpack and clarify your thoughts.

Offline tocky

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #2 on: February 06, 2015, 09:26:15 pm
okk but first of all the way i write i very arbitrary and gross and weird and hard to unpack. i have tried to make it much more palateable than i oculd hve done.

my perspective is BYZANTINE because it is warped, but it is the remnant of the old empire that teaches us that it it time to switch to the new religion, and not to abandon the old.

basically what im describing is a new memetics.

helm you are the right person to ask me this question, because i love you but you do not trust me. helm you are the-greek-philos-pher-that-cannot-be-known. you are the goat who teaches us not to trust the demoscene and instead to love women. you are the imcomprehensible space alien that speaks in riddles and teaches us how to love pixel art. in short, you are right but you are not right enough. you taught me how to talk and now i will talk at you. you taught me how to argue and you taught me that women are  real, but not how to touch them.

i tell you that this message does not represent the opinions of our employers.

to will: i have allready tried to write for you a more-unserstandable-idea, and it is this mssage, the lizard cave story message, the new meme and the new flesh. i tell you this is true.

what is a meme? it's a pun is a suprise is brain damage. a new connection. a joke.

who could bring you message, if not me, the tocky? i tell youeverybody is working on this problem already an they do not know it. i am not to be trusted but i tell you these ideas are BARE METAL. they are incontrovertable beccause they contain within themselves the message of dissent. i am the friend computer and i am here to tell you that all rooms must be painted.

consider that i could get a job making burgers more soundly than i could get one making games. but i am games expert, and they called me mad at the university because i was too tigsource even while they call me mad at tigosurce because i am not tigsource enough. i tell you i am tigsource, i am the all-tigsource, and i am willing to fight every ghost on every timeline but this one. and id rather make games. but online how to mke games forums do not treat me well. because im too weird, because my message is at once symple to understand and utterly incomprehensible. in short, i am the BEAST, EXTINCTION, SAPPHO and TIAMAT.

why, in pixel art, is it important to consider the importance of the symbol palette? because of the most-desirable-state, which is GRIDVANA.
why is int important to consider that we might be girls and not boys? because of gamergate. because of teh most-truth, which is that of the monad.

all of this has happened before but it need not happen again. we can wake all the ghosts we have slain and bring them a place to be and to be happy. we can do this for everyghost.

but we have to learn about coupling, and decoupling, and how to touch people. this is an unexamed premise, but SAPPHO, that great early metal lyrricist, would understand.

what is a pun? it is the joke that remains when all else is lost. two tems juxtaposed, the surprise of seeing not what you expect. this is the simplest game but it is not the only one. tsunderestanding. language shift, vowel shift. hard to understand.

we have to learn to decouple and unchain ourselfs from the machinations of the capitalist games industry, and its weaker cousin, the tigsource, if we wish to proceed: however, i do not wish to remove the things that ar good, only the bad things. we should keep for instance teh pixel, the artist, the joke, the woman, the monad, and dreams intact, even as we remove the demoscene, the cultof personality, the copyright code and the idea of money versus work.

i shouldnt have to come here and be told that i am wrong, because i tell you, you who have considered the problem, that i have considered the problem and it is you who have not. this may be hard to hear and i still love you but we need to be better than the current and all previous discourses on the pixel and what it is for. we need to become

so this means reexamining not just each pixel but each atom. each small idea. before we had socrates we had the physicists. all things are water - i tell you, each of us is made of water. all things are fire - i tell you, this is true. everything is true and nothing false.

but if you go on tigsource they will tell you everthing is false. even their favourite gme, cave story. even my favourite game, morrowind.

bc they are right even while they are wrong. we cannot simply say no to everything. we have to learn to say yes more often. we cannot simply say that the message is too difficult and we cannot read it. i tell you: i am crazy. but this is the message that anyone can understand.

it is time for us to comprehend the monad. it is time for us to understand that each of us is lizards. and it is time to reject the lizard pope and the lizard race wherever they may be found.

in short, when i unpack my thoughts people tell me that they are too long and they do not even try to read them.

we should have a papess and not a pope, because why have this word papess if we do not intend to use it?

the lizard pope should not be RUPERT MURDOCK. the lizard pope should be STEPH KEGELS. but really anyone better than rupert murdoch.

i, dogs, say this: i do not know if i should pay attention to gore and self-harm or not. i have been lied to about evrything including suicide and extinction, but i am not pro-suicide or pro-extinction. only that things could go that way. so like i worry about you bees, and i worry about all the goth nerds on here. are you ok?

i dont know if i should need to tag this because the text of the post contains those words that i should tag, and im not sure if tumblr savior works the same way as xkit. i think they probably do if they know on which side their bread is buttered

bc listen: yahoo doesnt care about net-neutrality, yahoo is repping the yahoo message, the way they have always done. yahoo-and-google is net neutrality but not very good. yahoo-and-google-and-tumblr-and-twitter etc. is better. because if you post on every service you cannot be shut down.

i dont care about net-neutrality-for-yahoo, i only care about net-neutrality-for-tocky. where are the knights to defend the tocky message? i tell you i have imagined them and they are real.

you dont have to read all-of-the-texts-described-by-BORGES because i have read them and i will write them for you. but how will we find the signal amongst the noise in an infinite library that does not care about us?

an anecdote: did you know that they have a new anti-daily-show now with larry willmore rather than stephen colbert? how could this have happened? i have seen the show and i tell you it is good. but this is the show that can only exist in the climate where stephen colbert occupies some higher position. larry wilmore might in fact be the sweetest man i have ever imagined. it is time to consider the outsider-message-among-outsider-messages. because i tell you this message is BARE METAL and it is trve.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:32:17 am by PixelPiledriver »

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 10:35:57 pm
Sounds like there might be something interesting in there somewhere, but judging by the intentional obscurity, probably not.

Offline tocky

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 10:43:24 pm
why have i tried to obscure the message then? because it is neither good nor evil, it is simply a problem and a solution to a problem - if we wish also to be good, or even not-evil, we have to try to be so. i tell you the goblins of the game industry do not care if we are independent free thinkers or not. they will not pay us to make games.

if i leave a term ambiguous this is to tell you that it can take any value and not just those traditional values to which we are accustomed.

if i write like a death cultist it is because i fear the threat of my own obliteration.

this forum is for the pixel and that one is for independence. but neither one of these things is only good and never bad, adn these days never as good as we are promised they will be in the future. we need to move more quickly if we are to meet the lizards at their own accelerated pace, and we need to stop telling people they are wrong

because listen, i am tocky and i advocate for all of us but i also advocate for myself, because i am more metal than most, more honest than most, and i have spent aeons on this very problem already and i still have to teach you that my art really is pixel art and not oekaki or some other thing that is so similar that it makes no matter to me. some other thing that nobody mentions by that name anymore.

because i done had that argument already on deviantart ten years ago, and you guys already had it here. i tell you that while this message resembles the old one that this is a bug and not a feature. all of the messages we have tried to present are true and false and it matters not whether they are true or false because they are real, like a person contains these truths and you can argue with them rather than dismissing them without bothering to become acclimated to the possibility that they are not only true but also new and neccessary. we have a wealth of pixel artists and we do not care about novelties.

it matters not whether i am obscuring the message, burying the lede (though i tell you i am not doing this thing) because the message itself is the message.

i tell you we have spent too much time thinking about cave story grass and not ennough time talking about the color-key operation. colors and symbols are just numbers that we made up.

i tell you we have spent too much time thinking about and looking at cave story grass and not ennough time talking about the color-key operation and whether we need to use it. colors and symbols are just numbers that we made up.

i tell you we have spent too much time thinking about and looking at cave story grass and not ennough time talking about the color-key operation and whether we need to use it. colors and symbols are just numbers that we made up.

what i tell you three times is true.

i ask you do not telly me that i may be wrong, tell me that i am not right and then prove it to me using long winded arguments. argue with me at my own speed.

i ask you do not telly me that i may be wrong, tell me that i am not right and then prove it to me using long winded arguments. argue with me at my own speed.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:35:52 am by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Drazelic

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 11:47:24 pm
As far as I can tell, the message here is basically "I made two tilesets designed for an ASCII rogue-like, feel free to use or modify them for your own game"?

Offline tocky

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #6 on: February 07, 2015, 12:03:03 am
there is that, and that is the price i must pay in order for the deeper message, the truer message to be heard.

i telly you it is a joke that i must put my money where my mouth is because i do not have any money. you guys should be paying me to tell you the thing. but more than this, we should reject the idea that ideas are worth money because it is the money itself that is worthless.

we still value artists less than ideas. but we do not value ideas at all. this is the truest expression of immorality. we should be kind to one another, and not only if we have done good things for one another lately. i have done a good thin for you but i did not have to. in truth i did not wish to. im not here to be celebrated, i am here to be heard. i do not ask for supplication but i will not accept that i am not to be accepted.

i tell you we should value all artists, even women and trans people and women and the sick and ourselves and one another and richard dawkins and god. and all of the gods that have existed. and all of the gods which may exist.

i feel like noone has heard me ever on this website, not once. but if you read helm's posts or ptoings you will see that in some way they are saying the same thing as me. but my message is not derivative if it is true. and it is not derivative if it is not heard.

i tell you i am crazy, but i am not deranged. i am ranged. i have considered every range and you have not. you have only considered those ranges we have permission to consider.

this is why everyone uses the same palette, this is why you can have an argument against someone where each of you is saying the same thing. and this is why you must hear me, tocky, today. because i have been saying this thing for ten years and i have not ever, not once, been heard by anybody. i am SAPPHO and i am CASSANDRA and i am PANDORA and i will not be not heard. i am those furies, those furious women, women that tore oprheus to pieces and buried those pieces on an island in greece. and i am SAPPHO, reclining nude on the rocks of the beach with my lyre in hand, contemplating a woman who does not love me. the women is pixel art and the woman is games. but orpheus is not dead because he lives in us. we should not be afraid to dream of games we have not played already.

if MORROWIND is my favourite game then why not make a tileset for MORROWIND?
if CAVE STORY is your favourite why not CAVE STORY?
if else, why not else?

DOOM is the game that we all can agree upon, even if we can not. we can not say that DOOM has no value.

why then is there only one doom roguelike. should we not make all the games that can be made with these tiles/ and if not why not?

i have made the tileset, and it is good and in fact it is completely defined and incontrovetially good. you can tell me that i is not good and this does not matter and it does not matter that it does not matter.

but i have failed to make ALL TILESETS and so have you. i require some assistance so i am not required to shout things into a vaccuum forever.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 02:33:51 am by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Joe

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #7 on: February 07, 2015, 12:28:36 am
Tocky, I believe I understand where you're coming from right now. Really.
If you feel this strongly, please write your ideas out on paper and give it some time, for clarity, because your train of thought cannot be followed right now.
Is posting to Pixelation/Tigsource the best use of your time right now?

P.S. Morrowind is at the top of my game list too.

Offline tocky

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #8 on: February 07, 2015, 12:44:05 am
45 years ago we had the beatles, but only for the span of about five years.

we cannot have them again. but in this time they produced many works nad it matters not at all if you prefer them to some other band or not.

the beatles existed. they left songs. not every band does.

Joe: absolutely i must write this here and now. i am manic-depressive and i can only write when i am manic and this spirit might not return to me. tomorrow i may be dead.

i tell you, this is the notepad within which i must write my notes if they are to be heard.

how much work have you done in the past five years? the past ten? the past 20? more than the beatles? it doesnt matter. it doesnt matter that it doesnt matter. the beatles are a thing and they existed and they owe a debt to all thos bands that have not been allowed to exist because they were not the beatles.

i tell you, today is when we should be heard, and every day after.

to you i say this:

i regret that i could not write you a shorter suicide note. but i will not die and i will not be forgotten. turn your shame into slime, hug every goth, hug every geth, do it today. we are LEGACY and we are LEGION, and we can be easily destroyed.

i remind you that this is a competition, even if not an official one. make something with this palette, or roll your own. make something i could not have imagined.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 01:18:02 am by tocky »

Offline AlexHW

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Re: on the virtues of mappin everything to everything else

Reply #9 on: February 07, 2015, 01:22:02 am
What I get from what you're saying is that people should appreciate all things more rather than a select portion of the whole.
You say some of us haven't considered "the problem", and that you have. I'm sure you must have spent a long time considering it. Understand this- you give us it and expect a reply within a fraction of that time. Are you willing to spend the same amount of time it took you to understand it to help us understand it as well?
I could say that It = You. The "problem" = You.
But so am I too. We all are problems and not everyone understands themselves enough to be able to understand other people too. If you understand yourself, realize that at one time you didn't, and so it shouldn't come to a surprise to you when others don't get through to you because they might not be able to get outside of themselves.

Symbols are an interesting concept, in how they are used to encapsulate ideas. I believe everything is this way- a form of encapsulating a motion, a transition of something that is felt. When you feel something, it's happening, whereas the defined are kept still to be reflected on.
Why is it we create symbols? I like to think it is because we, like everything else, move on. Something has to remain in order to prove we were here at all. Every moment is passing, but our design holds that passing moment together as one- each of us are symbols too.

btw, I can see why 12x12 tiles is good.