AuthorTopic: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?  (Read 11066 times)

Offline Matriax

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What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

on: August 11, 2006, 04:07:28 pm
Hello,

Well i going to make gfx for a PDA/PocketPC and need make the graphics in 15bits.

How work on this?

I think work in 32bits mode and after put a filter to convert to 15bits...

But with 15bits the problem is:



If i make color choices after the color change a little etc... and well if possible the colours after the filter is equal or wrong...


Make the gfx in 32 and after a filter to 15 ¿or what i can make?

Offline ndchristie

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 04:30:01 pm
my suggestion: work in 8 bits (since youll never need more than that on a PDA) and then convert up if you *must* use a bizzar depth, since then you dont have any problem with losing colors (though you do watse space since you add over 100 unused colors)
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Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 04:32:08 pm
Promotion :P In Promotion you can set bitdepth for each channel from 2-8 so 5,5,5 = 15 bit and you can select if the range gets stretched to full 255 or gets capped.

Adarias: 8 bit colourdepth would give 256 colours total to choose from, with 3/3/2,  3/2/3 or 2/3/3 bits per channel (3/3/2 is what mophun has and it's horrible)

15 bit colourdepth is also what the GBC, GBA and the DS use.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 04:36:06 pm by ptoing »
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 05:31:20 pm
oh, that does sound like a very good tool.  could you post a link to where i could see more about it?  googling promotion doesnt work for obvious reasons :P
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Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #4 on: August 11, 2006, 05:39:40 pm
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #5 on: August 11, 2006, 05:58:55 pm
thanks :P
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Offline Matriax

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #6 on: August 11, 2006, 06:39:03 pm
I used promotion a long time ago... but prefer mspaint and psp, but well i think need practice with promotion.

Thanks ptoing for this i not know promotion had this option.

And when i put 5,5,5 etc... when i go to the palette and try choose colors, all tha colors will be 15bits ¿? say, only show the 15bits colors ¿?

I view with this the colour go to 8in8... for example:

red: 208
green: 208
blue: 208

the next grey is:

red: 212
green: 212
blue: 212

but if 8,8,8 and now is 5,5,5 dif=3,3,3=9 ¿? yes i knows im wrong and the program is correct but i not understand very well this. and for example with 15bits ¿how many colours are?

And in promotion i can convert a 32bit image to 15bit? i want make proofs and if the difference is no much i believe will make the gfx in 32 bit and after apply this filter, mspaint rulez XD, i know promotion is the best program for pixelart but well prefer mspaint.


EDIT: i PUT NEW PROJECT WITH 8,8,8 and when i copy a image of the clipboard to the program decrease to 255 always ¿why? i want the image in 32bits XDD
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 06:51:51 pm by Matriax »

Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #7 on: August 11, 2006, 07:18:46 pm
Promotion works with 24bit colour 8 bits per channel and it only has 8 bit colour indexes, meaning 256 possible colours 15 bit is 32000something colours to choose from. and when you work in whatever bitdepth promotion wont let you use colours outside that range.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline eghost

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #8 on: August 11, 2006, 07:27:45 pm
15 bit is 32768 colors all told...Sorry to nitpick...

Offline Matriax

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #9 on: August 11, 2006, 08:59:23 pm
Promotion works with 24bit colour 8 bits per channel and it only has 8 bit colour indexes, meaning 256 possible colours 15 bit is 32000something colours to choose from. and when you work in whatever bitdepth promotion wont let you use colours outside that range.

And why this ¿? i not understand why i can't copy a image with alots of colors(24,32..) and when put in promotion always decrease to 256(workin in 8,8,8)... imagine i would to retouch a photo or anything and when i copy to promotion que quality decrease to much..  ???

In promotion not is possible make gfx with a pallete more than 256 colours?  :o , well not know for my is very strange, prefer mspaint, i have a image to the clipboard and copy in mspaint with for example 56789 and can working on this.

And i make another proof and copy a image with 63colours with 8,8,8 and promotion change the palette is i mae "use current palette" and if choose "optimizez palette" put dithering in the image (with nearest color actived)

is possible this why i have a evaluation version and this is a restriction ¿?

Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #10 on: August 12, 2006, 12:41:57 am
promotion is made for pixelling and based on deluxepaint and there was no need for more than 256 colours (do you ever pixel with more than 256 colours). So that's why. There might or might not be more than 256 colour support in the future but afaik there are other things which have higher priority to be implemented than more colours at once.

PS: MSPaint is shite :P
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Matriax

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #11 on: August 12, 2006, 10:40:35 am
Ahhh.. thanks ptoing now understand all very well ;)

Quote
PS: MSPaint is shite
MsPaint for president!! XD

Offline Helm

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #12 on: August 12, 2006, 10:57:43 am
Quote
I used promotion a long time ago... but prefer mspaint and psp, but well i think need practice with promotion.

PSP is okay, but if you want to go pro, I suggest learning ProMotion. I've seen videos of you work, and regardless of how good the outcome is, you work notoriously slow, because you use mspaint/psp. When you familiarize yourself with the shortcuts in promo, you rarely need to take your pixelling pointer off of the art, and this makes you zany fast. I remember in a video where you put two pixels down... went to the toolbar and selected color picker... when back to the art (not to a palette) and selected a color... when back to the toolbar and selected the paint brush... when back to the art and layed down 3 more pixels..

you get my point.

Offline Matriax

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #13 on: August 12, 2006, 07:10:24 pm
Ejem... PSP not is PhotoShop... is PaintShopPro 7.0 XDDD i uuse PaintShopPro of the version 3.0 and is famimiliar to me and the 8,etc.. not like for this i use Mspaint for pixel-art etc.. and use PSP(PaintShopPro) to play with the palette, changue the palette, decrease colors, etc...

And yes helm i agree you in all, for to use mspaint etc.. im going fast but compared wit a pixel-art make in promotion is slow.

¿Any video of promotion? i search in "video google" and "youtube",etc.. and not find nothing and inet, i think a "video-tutorial" of pixel-arts make with promotion is very interesting for view the shortcuts or how work a "promotion people" in pixel-art for me will be more interesting and for more people(i believe). And need tutorial of promotion, i look in google "tutorial cosmigo promotion" and no view nothing... yes promotion have "help" but prefer a tutorial with examples etc...

I view promotion time ago but well only install open and close XD, and i view the help, and practice and is interesting the zoom with the wheel of the mouse, the "picker" with "," is more useful XD

I think i alternate mspaint and promotion.

And i like also promotion save all the "undos", in mspaint only the 3 last, and can redo undo all the pixels you put XD. This is fun!!! ex: you can make a pixel-art, undo all the gfx, presh shift+control+z while record with camtasia recorder and view how the gfx is drawing alone XD.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 07:12:35 pm by Matriax »

Offline Evil-Ville

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #14 on: August 12, 2006, 07:49:55 pm
I've been using Pro Motion for about two weeks (Thanks to ptoing) now and one thing that annoys me is that I haven't found a way to select and move stuff around. Is there any way to do this?

Edit: Sorry if this a bit off-topic.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 08:29:53 pm by Evil-Ville »

Offline Helm

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #15 on: August 13, 2006, 12:28:09 am
Evil-Ville there are stencil tools, they need a bit of a different mentality than layers, but the short of it is, yes, you can select and move stuff around.

Quote
I think i alternate mspaint and promotion.

There is absolutely nothing mspaint can do that promotion can't. Your preferences are your preferences, but if you're serious about this from a pro aspect, you can do all your work in pro mo and photoshop or photoshop clones for various extra effects.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #16 on: August 13, 2006, 02:52:58 am
well ive been using pro motion and i think that it is fantasitic, but im sticking with IDraw for my pixelwork.  i like the selector tool in that, its basically sex.  also, the ability to define hotkeys :P

sorry for being a little off topic
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Offline Mr.Modem

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #17 on: August 13, 2006, 08:22:27 am
Please, kill me if I'm wrong but I think you can define hotkeys in Pro Motion too.
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Offline Matriax

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #18 on: August 13, 2006, 10:48:25 am
No, helm you not understand me, i know with promotion you can make all etc... but i say alternate mspaint and promotion not for make things in one program and in other if not for practice little a little in promotion and finish use always promotion, i don`t know if you understand me.

For example if try make a pixel-art,now i make more fast in paint that with promotion, for this make things in mspaint and other in promotion for get practice. Promotion is new for me and im feel very lost with all, and need make pixel-arts and i go to presh all buttons in promotion to view the effect and learn and view the hotkeys etc.. for this alternate mspaint and promotion for no lost all the time try learn promotion etc.. i very slow learning the new programs, for this alternate.

But i hope in 1month etc.. use always promotion, thin with hotkeys, effects, AA etc.. is the best program for pixeling but well to make fast pixels need know all the hotkeys, etc.. and need practice.

(sorry for my bad english)

Offline Helm

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #19 on: August 13, 2006, 11:59:34 am
Yes I understand you. Just practise the program until you learn it. Then you'll see it's perfect for pixel art in almost all ways, and soon version 6 will add even more goodies.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #20 on: August 13, 2006, 03:01:49 pm
Please, kill me if I'm wrong but I think you can define hotkeys in Pro Motion too.

oh wow you can...i didnt see that tab before.  well thats just another point for pro motion :D
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Offline Feron

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #21 on: August 13, 2006, 04:45:37 pm
Is pro-motion available for mac - everyone says how good it is and i would like to try it - otherwise im stuck with photoshop.

Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #22 on: August 13, 2006, 05:13:16 pm
Is pro-motion available for mac - everyone says how good it is and i would like to try it - otherwise im stuck with photoshop.

No
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Offline Tremulant

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #23 on: August 13, 2006, 09:18:09 pm
...im sticking with IDraw for my pixelwork.

Sorry for being way off topic, but: I love you now, Adarias :D. IDraw is, indeed, sex.

Slightly more to the point, is there any particularly good argument for switching to PROmotion? I know many of the best around here use it, and as such I'm a bit curious. Current;y, I use IDraw, which has a number of features that make it very comfortable to use, but if promotion would offer any significant benefits, I'd be more than willing to go for it.

Offline Helm

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #24 on: August 14, 2006, 09:36:57 am
If you just download it and try it a bit you won't realize the full extent of the benefits. It requires actually learning the program pretty well before it hits you that this is a program made specifically for pixel art and thusly pretty much has all the features you'll be likely to need. Ptoing works it much better than me and it's very often that I go 'gee, I wish promo could do this' and he replies '...it does already, foo!'

Offline ptoing

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #25 on: August 14, 2006, 10:30:49 am
hehe.

But yeh, I can agree with Helm, when I first started using it in 2004 (I was using psp6 for pixels at that point), I was like wtf, this is weird, but i could see it had some nice features so I gave it a serious try and after a while it really grew on me. The [ ] to cycle through colours, easy changing of palettes where you instantly see how the new colour looks in realtime while you move sliders, ditherbrushes, it's animation features, the possibility of setting the bitdepth, effective grid and lockgrid settings, customizable shortcuts and much much more. I am using it for almost 2 years not almost every day and I think i can say I more or less know everything it can do (including knowledge of all important shortcuts). It definately makes you way way way faster. I would say the overall speed of pixelling with PM for me increased by about 5 times. And version 6 will definately make it even better :D
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #26 on: August 23, 2006, 10:18:29 am
Trust us...

Pro-motion is THE tool for low color pixel work...
Photoshop is THE tool for high end pixel work...

Doing low color work in Phostoshop is just wrong. - likewise - doing high color work in Promotion is WRONG (neigh impossible as it doesn't support it) - even if Jan (zimmerman) does get around to incorporating high bit ratios into promotion I doubt it'll better the potential of P'shop.

Based on DPaint - (THE tool of the 80's/90's) - speak to ANY old skool pixel artist like myself and they will sing it's praises - I jumped onto the Promotion Band wagon back in late '97/early '98 - and every iteration since then it's improved... it's the tool that's propped up the GBA art creation industry in the UK/Europe/US since it was released...


As far as the other pixel tools that you guys seem to like...
Paint Shop Pro is lame.
Graphics Gale has it's plus points but isn't a patch on Promotion
And MS PAINT!!! JEEZ!!! I can't begin to say how utterly dogshit that is as a pixel package...

Dunno about Idraw - never seen it... but I doubt it's as good as you say.

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Offline Xion

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Re: What is the best to work in 15bits ¿?

Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 06:52:09 pm
Dunno about Idraw - never seen it... but I doubt it's as good as you say.
Yes, your doubts are affirmative. I used to use it for RPG Maker sprites, and it has some nice features, but it's pretty much between MSPaint and GGale.