AuthorTopic: Very new. Looking for some C+C  (Read 11274 times)

Offline Tijjer

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 02:16:35 pm
Thanks Tijjer! Can you elaborate on the banding? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Thanks for your feedback!

Here are some examples of banding that I mean: http://www.pixel.schlet.net/ after reading that it should be obvious of where the banding is to you.

Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 03:26:28 pm
That was a great article, thanks Tijjer!  I am still having a little issue understanding though.  I think I just need a few details for the "AHA" moment.  Is the banding the portions basically where just 2 sets of single pixels line up (or several sets of single pixels line up) without obscuring the shape that the bands create?

In ASCII:
CCCC
AAAA
BBBB

vs

ACAA
AAAA
BBAB

In an image:


Is the above an alright example?  This is 2 copies of the 2 circles just to allow me to circle where I think the problem is.  The red circled bit is the bit that I understand to be banding while the other one I understand to be slightly better.  Am I making any sense?  Sorry, I'm having trouble figuring out how to voice this. 

And, if my understanding is correct, then I see a LOT of banding in my cat.  I don't have much of an art background so I'm just kind of doodling until something looks alright and don't really understand a lot of the concepts.  I'm enjoying learning them though using pixel art.  My hand is not very steady when it comes to freehand so pixel art is great because it allows me to adjust parts where I messed up!





Left vs right as well?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 04:42:11 pm by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Tijjer

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 04:13:10 pm
I'm still trying to understand some of it myself, but perhaps some of our experts could shed some more light on the subject?  :y:

Offline JoeCreates

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 04:44:47 pm
Regarding the shading, I definitely agree when others have said you should focus on the form first (otherwise the shading is pointless). However, I thought I'd try to highlight one of the shading issues the image seems to be suffering from, and that is that you seem to be considering a two dimensional light source and shape, instead of three dimensional. It's evident that you want your light to be coming from up and left, so around the top left outlines you have added highlights, and on the lower right you have added shadows. However, considering only the 2D shape in this way leads the image to look embossed, rather than three dimensional.

To illustrate:



Above, the left circle has been embossed by the technique I described. The right circle as been shaded considering where the light might hit it as a 3D sphere, the light being up, to the left, and slightly in front of it.

It might help to practice just shading some simple 3D shapes before trying something more complex like a cat. When you are confident doing 3D shapes, you could try imagining the cat as a set of connected 3D shapes to figure out where the highlights and shadows should be.

Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #14 on: May 08, 2014, 05:50:35 pm
I found a tutorial when searching for more information on banding in pixel art and that helped a good bit.  It's here: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299 but, while I didn't note anything in the rules against posting links to other forums, I'll gladly take this link down if there's an issue with my doing so.

Joe, your tips were very helpful as well.  After this thread, I'm definitely starting again from square one.  Learning some more theory as well.  I've got a 4 color monochrome color palette and I'm going to start by making simple stuff again. 

Thanks all!

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #15 on: May 08, 2014, 06:47:42 pm
Don't try and draw what you think a cat looks like.
Look at an actual reference and draw what a cat looks like.

The thing that stands out the most apart from the wobbly shape, are the eyes which seems to be viewed from the front which gives the appearance of eyes being attached like on a fish or bird.
As for the shading, work with more roundness, right now it looks like a cat shaped in cookiedough. I'm not saying this as an insult, I just want to give you an idea of how it's perceived.
Because your brain will say "this is what a cat looks like" but depending on which side of the brain you ask, you'll get different results. The left side of the brain always wants to think of things as flat, even if they're viewed from an angle. The left side also works more with symbols and predefined images rather than what things actually look like.

Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #16 on: May 08, 2014, 07:46:27 pm
Don't try and draw what you think a cat looks like.
Look at an actual reference and draw what a cat looks like.

This is an awesome way of saying this.  I've never understood why people needed references before as I can usually picture just about anything as it's said.  I now understand.  I can picture it but that picture doesn't necessarily offer the CORRECT image.

The thing that stands out the most apart from the wobbly shape, are the eyes which seems to be viewed from the front which gives the appearance of eyes being attached like on a fish or bird.

I was having trouble with the eyes because of the pixel limitations.  One issue that I was having was that I knew I needed to add a reflection but I couldn't figure out how to place it with the eye being only 10ish pixels.  I'm understanding now, due to some reading I've been doing, that perhaps it would've been better done with a grey spot instead of a white spot.  However, I understand that that isn't the issue you're talking about and that the shape is way off, I'm just stating another issue that I could fix with it.

As for the shading, work with more roundness, right now it looks like a cat shaped in cookiedough. I'm not saying this as an insult, I just want to give you an idea of how it's perceived.
Because your brain will say "this is what a cat looks like" but depending on which side of the brain you ask, you'll get different results. The left side of the brain always wants to think of things as flat, even if they're viewed from an angle. The left side also works more with symbols and predefined images rather than what things actually look like.

I totally get that!  I'm having that issue right now actually.  I'm trying to draw an apple from reference http://www.wilsonsfruit.com.au/media/uploads/reddel.jpg there and I'm having trouble guessing where to even start.  I know that you're supposed to break it down to basic shapes but, to me, it's a few basic shapes and if I put them in the way that I'm seeing it, it turns out completely 2 dimensional.  (This is how I'm seeing it right now: )

HOWEVER, after looking at it for a while, I may have figured out a better direction to go in.  Maybe someone can tell me if I'm headed the right way? (Here:)

Lastly, I know it's just a simple, tiny sphere (And I see a slight flatness on the sides) but I was hoping I could get some feedback on this:  
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 07:48:25 pm by pixelalex »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 08:49:08 pm
lil too much AA on the sphere. sometimes you don't need dithering and AA, crisp edges and smooth blocks of color can look really satisfying

Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #18 on: May 09, 2014, 01:35:01 am
I notice that too fizzick. It almost looks jagged.

WIP: am I even on the right track with this? it's not modelled after the above apple but a different one.

Offline jams0988

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #19 on: May 09, 2014, 01:45:02 am
Quote
I say that because I still don't have any c+c on the shading like I asked for
If your form is all incorrect, no amount of shading is going to help you. Shading is based on form. If your cat looks like an alien, there are no magical shading tricks we can give you to make it look like a cat. As for your apples - I'd imagine an apple as basically an oval, and then take a look at where the apple deviates from that, and go from there. I would pick up a pencil and paper if I were you - if you can't draw an apple using the most intuitive medium possible (a pencil), you're not going to do yourself any favors by trying to draw one that's only 16x16 pixels wide. You might get a decent looking pixel apple sooner or later, but it'll be by luck, and you won't be able to draw a larger one later.

If you want to learn to draw, then I'd focus on pencil and paper for now. Your pixel art will come a lot easier to you once you have the basics down. I'd recommend looking through this guy's channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K-EStL9yjQ
Some good tutorials there. Your skill will see a big jump if you go through his videos and draw along with him. Good luck! \o/
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 02:00:39 am by jams0988 »