AuthorTopic: Very new. Looking for some C+C  (Read 11272 times)

Offline pixelalex

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Very new. Looking for some C+C

on: May 07, 2014, 09:14:19 pm
Hey all!

I'm fairly new to the pixel art world.  I've made some simple things like 20x20 apples, trees, etc but this is my first real venture into detailed, 3d-shaded, pixel art.  I was just wondering if I'm completely off track here or if it looks alright.  Mostly ignore the weirdness in shapes and stuff.  I'm mostly looking for tips on shading and highlights.

I also apologize if the size is way off.. Most of the work is done on my phone and the app that I use exports at 480x480 for some odd reason... 



I can't see the image either (I'm sorry this wreaks so much of noob) but I've added the link in case you can't see the image...

Thanks,
Alex
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:41:04 pm by PixelPiledriver »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 11:31:49 pm

It's hard to give proper critique, because it's impossible to pinpoint what you expect from "your first venture into detailed 3d-shaded pixel art", means the style direction is unclear.

If you are going for realism there is one big problem. I don't know what you drew.
I presume it's a feline. But I can't say if it's a rabbit or a fox or maybe something fantasy like, which makes it hard to give valuable help.

If we ignore the weird shapes, we have to ignore the form and form is a by-product of shading properly, which is going in the exactly opposite of what you asked for.

Try to make clear what you want to draw and where your problems were or where you felt absolutely insecure.
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Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 11:42:02 pm
Sorry, you're right.

It's meant to be a small orange cat. By ignore the weird shapes, I mean ignore the fact that the cat has a strange nose and kind of an odd body because I want critique on the accuracy and implementation of the shading mostly.

I am not necessarily trying to make it 100% realistic just naturally shaded looking assuming that there is a light in front and above the foreface of the cat.

Sorry for being unclear!

Alex

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 12:24:20 am
Okay, a cat would have been the last thing I would have thought of.

The most accurate shading here won't help to see it as a cat, because the proportions and all main features which make a cat looking like a cat aren't there.
Even in stylized art the basic proportions are there or at least succesfully altered or exaggerated that you still get the message, that's because the main features are clearly distinguishable and don't leave space for confusion.

I mean it rather looks like you are trying to improve your basics (form shading), than you want to draw "exactly that cat"
THe subject you chose and what you want to improve don't really lines up.

A real cat looks like that:

look at the shape of the ears, the shape of the tail and the size of the paws and maybe also the length of the body. That are the things which actually stand out and you got them all wrong in your drawing.

For example of a stylized version take a look at Garfield:
the shape of the ears, the mouth, the tail and the paws look like a cat. The proportions are utterly different from a real cats, but with the details it's enough that we immediately think of a cat and nothing else.


If you are rather looking for how to shades basic forms like spheres, cubes and cylinders since you don't know how it works you maybe should draw some isolated ones of them first and move on to more complex stuff once you understood how it works. Basic still life objects, like apples, bottles, human made tools and stuff with clear forms is better suited for that than living creatures.

Your "cat" also has the problem that it's exactly drawn in sideview, which flattens it even more and makes it harder than a bottle drawn in 3d space.

Every animal (as almost everything you will draw) is composed out of multiple forms. On top of that for any living object the concepts of gesture, weight, flow and anatomy have to be added in order to produce a successful drawing. Through simplifying, changing proportion you can end up with a more cartoon like character, which however will also strongly benefit from all the techniques mentioned above and in great simplified art you can still see that the artists know a lot more than the actually drew. THey just give you the information you need.

If you break down the cat into a really basic approach and low detail you also have there lots of interconnecting basic forms.
Best thing I could find with a quick search to show you that there are multiple forms - just look at all the spheres tubes and cylinders:


By breaking down problems in smaller problems you will find out and understand basic principles which will help you with every drawing in the long run.


While an apple will be not a lot more than a sphere and most fruits will have 1 or 2 forms, look how complex those bottles can get and reconsider how complex an animal actually is which don't has a fixed form shape, but also moving parts which can all be placed differently in space.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 12:29:35 am by Cyangmou »
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Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 01:41:40 am
Thanks for the tips and the time spent responding! Definitely some helpful tips in your reply.

However, I really don't want to make any enemies in my first 3 posts but I can't help but feel like you're just being overly critical for the sake of being overly critical. I say that because I still don't have any c+c on the shading like I asked for and, honestly, other than the length of the body, the rear ear being a tad too tall, and the nose being a tad pointy, I don't really see the problem with at least the most general shaping of it or how Garfield is any more cat-like except for the jowels, maybe?

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 02:44:28 am
Quote
I can't help but feel like you're just being overly critical for the sake of being overly critical.
Don't feel.
Think.
Open your mind to what people say.
Even if it is not what you asked for.
There's nothing overly critical about his thoughts and they are meant to help you.
You've just pulled the thread and ended up with the sweater --> which can be overwhelming.
But all of the above is good advice and I encourage you to break it down into sections.

Here's a rough edit:


Use some reference.
Here's some images I grabbed off google to make my edit.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline PsylentKnight

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 03:07:37 am
Yes, you specifically asked for help with shading, but you need to focus on form first. I know that you're new here- but trust me, PPD and Cyan know what they're talking about. They're not just trying to be contrarians.

The typical workflow for any medium of art is form => shading => detail. Start with step one.

I do have to say though, that's not too bad for working on a phone.
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Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 04:05:33 am
I was heeding the advice for sure, PPD, I just felt that it was a tad harsh seeing as the shape is fairly close. In the
 appropriately-sized version that you posted, the issues are much more apparent, though. I'm used to seeing them at phone screen sizes and, for some reason, my app won't export at the appropriate sizes.

I definitely was genuinely grateful for the advice and apologize for making assumptions. Thank you all for the advice and thanks psylent, I'm rarely ever on a computer other than at work so I do a lot of practicing on my phone!

I haven't yet worked on the length but I've improved the image a little bit, I believe.

Offline Tijjer

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 12:00:24 pm
Some anatomy is off with the kitty and also I get a sense of unwanted banding.  I would also reduce the number of colors currently used.  Thats some of my thoughts on it  :)

Offline pixelalex

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Re: Very new. Looking for some C+C

Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 12:23:09 pm
Thanks Tijjer! Can you elaborate on the banding? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Thanks for your feedback!