subpixel animation feedback

[Wes]

so i'm ready for my next big LEVEL UP in terms of pixel art and i really wanna nail subpixel animation.

here are two fairly basic animations/sprites that I made today in which I tried to do some stuff.





i'm fairly proud of them for the most part (especially the druid-necromander guy). i feel like i'm starting to get this down but i figured that it couldn't hurt to share and ask for some feedback 

for improvement reference, this is an older animation that i made last year. the perspective is different but it was one of my first attempts at using subpixeling and i don't think that i even did enough for it to make a difference (and where it is noticeable, i dont like it)

[Lanarky]

The animations looks really smooth! I really like the blue haired one, it has a really clean animation that gives the illusion of more frames, especially the feet. 

I like the the top one, but I noticed the hood might be a little jumpy above the face, so I made a small, quick edit:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3yr5b0DS_wxd2VkN0o0YnE0ZEE/edit?usp=drive_web

I tried smoothing the downward motion, and I was able to make it so the rim hood didn't become thicker on the upward motion.

Keep up the good work!

[Wes]

sweet man thanks a lot.

great call on the hood. it was the one part that was really giving me a hard time. much appreciated the edit man.

[Lanarky]

No problem.

[Conzeit]

when I think subpixel I mostly think Metal Slug. a lot of ilde animations there have much of that going on there.

much of the appeal is how stuff sort of morphs between frames. if I were to try to master that I'd do it with a reaaaaally slow breathing animation with lots of subtle changes where stuff is almost not moving except it looks like it is.

[jams0988]

Be careful with over-doing it. Too much can make your sprites look noisy and blobby, in my opinion. Like you just down-res'd higher resolution sprites using dirty tools. Your blur haired guy is looking pretty good, but the necrodruid is starting to look a little noisy, I think. The generic "subpixel animation is awesome!" tutorial shows the dangers of sub-pixeling best, ironically:

Sure, that small sprite is holding a lot of information, but is it really a good look?
I've seen some nice examples of sub-pixel animation, though. But I can't find any of them right now! And the only one I can think of off the top of my head is one of the member's avatars here. The guy with the orange slime/poring-like creature. I haven't seen him around in awhile, though...

[Conzeit]

yeah above all it needs to be purposeful, it'd be good for sloow squashing or weight shifting

[Wes]

thanks guys. so here's the latest animation i'm working on:



not complete. (apologies for the huge blank space around it. i had other stuff on the sheet for reference). looking for feedback before i go further with this one.

[Ymedron]

Quick feedback -
The subpixeling is good for the anticipation, but the strike itself is powerless and sluggish.
Reduce the number of frames during the strike. It might be a good idea to add in afterimages, stretched frames or some other "speedy movement" effects.

In the anticipation have the leg already raised to its full height and then stomped during the attack to reduce extraneous flailing. Furthermore, the body could then bend back to exaggerate the anticipation and give the leg more room to rise and come down. The difference in distance also helps add a sense of speed I think.
The free arm looks odd raising to the back, its motion feels more appropriate for swinging rather than stabbing.

Stabbing from under your arm feels like it would need two arms anyway. Overhand it benefits from gravity as it swings in a downward arc, but underhand it doesn't have the same impact.

[astraldata]

yours and mine respectively:


I only did 1 thing in this animation -- I removed the frame where his leg is lifted before the stomp.

The problem wasn't his leg lifting, but the spacing between the tip of the spear during the stab -- it wasn't correct physics-wise because it slowed down before the end of the stab, which caused the sluggish feeling mentioned above. Technically you could keep the leg lift by putting it on some of the anticipation frames before the spear is jutted forward -- IF your intent was to have the spear appear heavy that is, which means you'd need a few more recovery frames after the spear juts.

[Conzeit]

OK I'm gonna have to reiterate what already said with more emphasis.

again, look at metal slug to understand
Look at this one.
http://laurelyn.folio.free.fr/Pixi/Steam/METAL%20SLUG/Anims/fio/028.gif
see how the eyes are placed diagonally to her mouth at the middle of the animation? that shows they were willing to break the model a bit to make things lively, this is why squashy cartoony styles are good for this.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111129203504/metalslug/images/e/e0/Darkmetalslug.gif
This is a fucking tank, it's made out of solid plates of metal and yet it wobbles around a whole lot, this is the kind of style that works with subpixel animation.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081231133745/metalslug/images/c/c9/Mv280b.gif
metal too. look how it twists around, that's the point. See the rocket launchers changing shading? that's the other thing that goes GREAT with subpixel and the other thing besides off model wobbling that makes it shine. make it a chance to show that you're constantly thinking of the light source in every little movement.

it is a great opportunity to tweak the shading, so it works great with shiny things with hilights and speculars.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081231135142/metalslug/images/2/20/Sarubia.gif
Look at the way this wobbles BETWEEN shooting. look at the little cranes in the treads. See how all sorts of little highlights and shadows move around? that's most of the appeal of subpixel animation, giving a greater sense of volume and realism by showing how even the slightest movements changes the way an object is hit by it's lightsource.

NOW, I'm not saying go and do a bunch of wobbly off model stuff for no reason whatsoever, that's why I mention PURPOSE. subpixel has absolutely no place in the middle of an attack, you're supposed to be speeding up there not slowing down.  you could use it at the beggining to build up or at the end for the follow trough, for a showy pose that you want to freeze time for.

a cartoony movement with slow squash/stretch, slow weight shifting or a showy freeze time pose, a shiny object rotating and changing shading, an ilde animation with with a lot of wobbling or vibration are all good times to do it.

I'm gonna be honest here, I think this is one of those things that we made out to be a technique when we were starting pixelation but really it's barely so. Mostly it's just about tweaking things a LITTLE bit without even changing the silouethe of a sprite and make it seem like they moved, hence the emphasis on changing shading. You know how often you drag and drop a face from one place to another to animate it? this is a fancy name for changing one or two things on the hair to not be cheap and just leave it exactly like it was. rotating stuff, too.

check the hood of this chick I drew. those pixels that change a little bit.

the hair and hands on this one. how the front part of the hair hanging on her back puffs out first and then the back part. all the rotation in her hands.

To be honest most of the time subpixel animation is really of no use at all. if you're trying to put badges on your belt to be a better animator you probably dont need it for a long time because your style really doesnt lend towards it. You tend to do very in model stuff and also you tend to do stuff with celshading so really it's not gonna shine very much in your animation. maybe with hair/capes/shiny stuff rotating but not much.

Right now I think you're better off learning more about anticipation and follow trough, that is the very soul of anime and you could do with knowing how to pace your animations better (who wouldnt, really? :p). Look at your favorite anime. Look at Sean Leslie Ward of Hyper Light Drifter

Sorry if this seems a little harsh but with the last sprite I thought your application of this was actively making things worse, you clearly have a hang of what this is and roughly how to do it but I think your application is not very purposeful, until you get that part it wont really be something that draws people into your animations

[jams0988]

Wes, I think you should pick up a stick and act out some spear attacks. Your drawings are nice, but the timing and pose here make no sense - who takes three seconds to stab with a spear?! And who stabs with one hand? And lifts their feet? All your power comes from your hips and your legs. Just try throwing a punch like that and see how unnatural and weak it feels.

Anyway...yeah. I'd try a different pose altogether - this one doesn't look very convincing. And a spear jab should be very fast, especially if you're going to use it in a game. Speed blurs won't hide the fact that he's moving slower than most people move underwater. Like conceit says, you should get the basic timing down before trying to add on the bells and whistles. If there's no time to animate his hair blowing around during a spear attack, then so be it. People are going to notice how sluggish his attack looks before they notice how cool his hair looks, hahah!

Edit: Luckily, animation problems are a lot easier to fix than drawing problems:

Just spend five minutes in Graphics Gale deleting frames you don't need, changing the timing on the others, and adding a few speed lines and reaction frames, and presto - Your animation's got a bit more punch now! A stupid animation tip from me: when you're trying to decide on timing for your animation, make sound effects with your mouth. When I imagine a quick spear stab, I think "tsh!" like a cut-off cymbal. Just change your animation until it fits the sound effect you've decided on. It's pretty intuitive that way! Also, act out your animation yourself. Take note of how long the action takes in total, and then decide on what percentage of that total time each sub-action is going to take (winding up, swinging). The ratio of time between keyframes is probably more important than the total time of the animtion, since you can just speed up or slow down your animation in the end.

I guess I take back what I said about the pose, too. Even though it's probably unrealistic, it looks pretty good with better timing. Maybe you could have him twist his feet instead of lifting up the back one, though. I'd try it, but I'm not nearly as good at drawing as you are, sadly.
Actually, I'm really jealous of your drawing skill. Your guy is looking very, very on-model, as Conceit said. My character is constantly changing shapes. I have so much practice to do! X'D