GR#211 - Zelda Style - Sprites&Tiles

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Sorry if these images are too big, I'm trying to give myself a large canvas to mess around in.
The game screen is 320x240 scrolling.

Here's someone's tile set which obviously needs help:


I want to add a smoother, more painterly style to the Zelda tiles in use here.
There are many other tile sets and sprites and I'm waiting for a copy of the full 256 palette which I will rework to remove all the wasted similar colours to free up some space.
For now I'm sticking mostly to the existing limited colours palette (only added 3 dark red/oranges) but there is still plenty of room to add/replace some colours.


Here's where I'm at now:

This started out by fixing the nasty stairs but I couldn't stand those unnatural looking railings and all the noisy texture so I've just started redoing the whole thing...

Firstly I've spent a few hours redoing the cave wall and doorway tiles (top).
I didn't intend for this texture of completely random chunks but thats what I've ended up with.
I hoped the bottom would look less like hanging down into the lava and more like rocks protuding upwards, hopefully I can fix it.

Secondly I've tried to smooth out the lava texture to be less noisy and repetitive by adding a flat red with patches of texture and points of interest such like bubbles (to be animated).

Now I'm moving onto the more challenging (for me) task of the ground tiles.
Right now I've made a mess and expirementing with textures and this is mainly where I'm after some advice/edits.
The bottom of the U is where I'm working now.
You can fall off all these ledges and I think I haven't clearly marked the edge of the play area yet.
I wonder what a professional would do here.
I'm thinking 2 separate colour ramps and textures, one sharp chunks of rock around the edge and one for patches of smoother rock with cracks or something.
I'm trying to do this now but I suck at it so any help is appreciated.
Also any tips on efficient tiling that still prevents too many straight lines and grid effect.

Thanks. 

UPDATE:
Maybe something along these lines (bottom mid section)?
Do you think I would be better off not trying to recycle these colours and just create new ramps?


UPDATE:
Gave up on the palette. Feels like I'm moving slowly in the right direction.
Don't know what to do about the colour of the flatter inner area of the ground.
It kind of looks like dirt but this seems wrong for somewhere so volcanic...

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Small update on the tiles.


More urgently though I need to redo these sprites which are an edit of some version of Zelda that the programmer did:


Here's a redesign for main character sprite:

Design is nothing exciting but I don't have much info to go on.
I added the typical gold trim to help him stand out against the green grass background but haven't tested how well this will work yet or if needs stronger outlining.
I think its my first attempt at a character like this so any tips are appreciated.
Played around with the feet for a bit but didn't really know what else to do without going bigger.
Also, he will probably be getting a few variants of clothing anyway such as armour, helmet, weapon and shield.

EDIT: Yes, stronger outlines...

[Arne]

For the rocky platforms, it might be interesting to use cold vs warm. A dark gray purple for the Top and the Sides could be lit up by the lava from below.

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For the rocky platforms, it might be interesting to use cold vs warm. A dark gray purple for the Top and the Sides could be lit up by the lava from below.

The thought had crossed my mind so yeah I'll have a go and see how it looks.
Originally I didn't want it to be too simple but now I'm starting to think a clean, colourful look would be nice.

I've been tweaking the main character.
He's now 2 pixels taller than original.

It was decided his shiny gold-trimmed tunic was too fancy for a farmer's boy so I've gone for a peasant look on  the first row, the one on the right being what I think looks best so far.
And as per row 2, the sprite will change once you get better gear or perhaps just at certain points in the story.

Appreciate any crits 

EDIT: Trying some different palette.
Not sure if this is working :-S

Just to clarify, this platform is "floating" above the lava and will have the odd support column of rock underneath it.
There'll be a separate version for the lower parts that sit in the lava.

EDIT: Bolder highlights re-using some colours already in lava palette:



EDIT: Bonus chest sprite from same palette as hero.

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Still pushing   


Smoothed out the texture and removed heavy contrast lines within highlight areas (thanks magic wand! ).
"First" pass pixel-level detailing.
I tried to hue bounce ramp for rocks.
How does the palette look? Any suggestions?

Did a tiling test which went surprisingly well and tweaked some tiles in response to glitchy edges.
Next I need to organise upper and lower levels with visible separation...

Not sure about chest (and probably all items) with an outline as above or without?

Increased hero's shield size by 1px and added hue-shift.
Thinking about doing a helmet soon but don't have any ideas yet...

EDIT: Here's a shot of another area I'm working on.
I actually started this before working on the cave.
The theme here is a palace of nature which has been over-run by plants etc and will pose various related challenges.

Floor vine still needs another pass over its leaves.
Sloppily c+p the floor tiles but seems to tile ok when done properly.
Bannister is out of place here but dumped it in anyway

Next I should probably add some broken floor tiles with dirt and grass, and some decals or leaves to drop around the place.

I've had a comment that I should add some green into the wall some how but I'm not sure how yet.


Suggestions appreciated as always 

[PypeBros]

It's really turning great. Just got the feeling that chest's perspective could be improved.

Imho, pillars on east/west walls do not work well in a room where you see on the same line vertical pillars leading to the lower level of the dungeon.

Not sure about chest (and probably all items) with an outline as above or without?

It works well as above,

a palace of nature which has been over-run by plants etc

^_^
I'd then suggest that you make the floor's tiling sparser, as if a layer of dust had covered it and only lets tiles detail appear here and there. It'll give you more room to show the invasive plants as obstacles to sub-divide the playground.

[Elrinth]

To me it feels like the ground is floating in the air. It feels disconnected from the lava and the ground doesn't look attached to anything right now. Am I the only one who gets this feeling?

I really love your latest graphics, just need some attachment of the ground into the lava. I think the outline colour on the bottom side is actually doing too much to separate it from the lava. Perhaps a more dark reddish instead of dark greyish?

Right now this is what I imagine it to be (kinda):


Here's some really sloppy edits:

Kinda waterish shadow:


With yellow lines which you already use on the spikey thingies which lie in the lava. Why not use that on the ground aswell?:

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To me it feels like the ground is floating in the air. It feels disconnected from the lava and the ground doesn't look attached to anything right now.

Great! Because it is the upper level above the lava, though not quite as high as in your 1st edit.
I went for boulder highlights for this reason so I'm glad its working.
In direct contradiction with the Zelda perspective (which I've grown to despise to be honest ), I'm going to add some support columns to illustrate this and try to keep the walls separated enough so this is not such a perspective problem.
I'm considering shadows but I'm mindful that lava is illuminating
I might end up restricting shadows to the few places where another platform is below, or at least where shadow is on lava I'll let some of those brighter oranges and yellows shine through the shadow in full with illuminated ring of light red around.

Soon I will do a lower level using similar technique to your 3rd edit to connect it to the lava (ripping off Vierbit's style from memory, though now I realise how bad my lava is in comparison  ).

You're second edit would be great for a reflective surface like ice or really calm water (as it could be in a cave with no wind).

[Decroded]

Imho, pillars on east/west walls do not work well in a room where you see on the same line vertical pillars leading to the lower level of the dungeon.

Hmmm...so too many pillars.
Any suggestions??
I'm really shit with this Zelda perspective 

a palace of nature which has been over-run by plants etc

^_^
I'd then suggest that you make the floor's tiling sparser, as if a layer of dust had covered it and only lets tiles detail appear here and there. It'll give you more room to show the invasive plants as obstacles to sub-divide the playground.

Thanks man thats a great suggestion.
Its so obvious yet it hadn't occured to me 
If I can do this right, it will add that extra dimension to the other planned variations of broken/uplifted tiles with patches of dirt being pushed out by vines.

[PypeBros]

Imho, pillars on east/west walls do not work well in a room where you see on the same line vertical pillars leading to the lower level of the dungeon.

Hmmm...so too many pillars.
Any suggestions??
I'm really shit with this Zelda perspective 

Well, I'd suggest something like the Temple of droplets (Z:MC) where the *corners* get the pillars to avoid such issue, and where exits have slightly slanted "vertical" (read 'from bottom to top') lines.

when they had to let something show through a hole in the ground, the 4 borders get roughly equivalent amount of darkness and depth was suggested by a small, dark view of what's below.
Deepwood shrine did feature straight pillars here and there, but no middle-hole together. They're only partly working, imho, and the sole reason why it's not annoying in-game is that the 240-pixels-wide GBA screen rarely allowed one to see all the corners of a room.