AuthorTopic: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]  (Read 7252 times)

Offline Wanyo

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Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

on: May 27, 2013, 02:04:39 am
Hey everybody, I've been working on an album cover for a fine fellow on and off over the past month and now that I'm getting to putting some characters on it I feel like I could really take it a bit further and make it look even better especially when it comes to getting the characters standing out enough, it's definitely one of my weaker points. So I thought I'd bring it over to you wonderful folks and see how I can improve it so I can finish it up this week. Any thoughts are appreciated, but regardless thanks for giving it a look!  ;D

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Offline Pix3M

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 02:17:54 am
You could go with a composition that puts her in the foreground?

Also, not sure if you're theoretically aware of this but I know an approach that could help avoid bad composition. You just sketch down multiple ideas by blocking in your base colors i.e. using your fill color and not line. Then, you pick the strongest composition to refine into something finished.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 04:08:57 am by Pix3M »

Offline adcrusher524

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 03:51:34 am
Those clouds look really awesome. I love the poofy-ness they have!
What are you going for with the girl? It's a bit difficult to read, it looks like she has a black mask with leaves out the top. I would make her an edit, but I don't what you are trying to do. Is she dancing? What is she doing there? I'm assuming she is the machine girl. A little more info would be helpful.

I made a slight color edit and removed some jaggies as an example


The logo is good, but it is littered with jagged edges. If you don't know what jaggies are, this thread might help you out.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139322#139322
It's kind of a weird concept, I don't know how to put it in words so maybe the tutorial will help. I smoothed out just the bottom right hole in the gear, so there is an example you could look at. 

As for the color changes, I would give the white a slight blue tint since the sky is so blue and white is a very reflective color.

Offline Pix3M

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 04:16:44 am
Those clouds look really awesome. I love the poofy-ness they have!
What are you going for with the girl? It's a bit difficult to read, it looks like she has a black mask with leaves out the top. I would make her an edit, but I don't what you are trying to do. Is she dancing? What is she doing there? I'm assuming she is the machine girl. A little more info would be helpful.

I made a slight color edit and removed some jaggies as an example

The logo is good, but it is littered with jagged edges. If you don't know what jaggies are, this thread might help you out.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139322#139322
It's kind of a weird concept, I don't know how to put it in words so maybe the tutorial will help. I smoothed out just the bottom right hole in the gear, so there is an example you could look at. 

As for the color changes, I would give the white a slight blue tint since the sky is so blue and white is a very reflective color.


Don't forget to apply AA to completely remove the jags.  ;)

Offline Decroded

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 02:51:28 am
The cog is not instantly readable as a cog, more like some kind of pretzel shaped candy.
I feel its location also throws off the balance of the title. It could perhaps be larger and on the left as it seems odd to me for some reason to read the text first then see the cog afterwards.

The eyes have too much blue.
Her bicep is a little weird shaped.

+1 for bringing her closer to the camera. Even if it was into the next block (or closer) it would be better since the llama is the same height.
Its hard to make out her torso outline against the wall since colours are very similar.
Darker outline would help.

Her outfit reminded me of anime school girl, but the skirt is too long to suit the style.
This created a sort of conflict for me but maybe thats what you're going for   :-\

What is the thing around her neck?

The llama's scarf helps it stand out but the red dominates the main character's receding colours.

I feel the outward curve on the right side of her skirt makes her look like her knee is bent, which is not a good look  :lol:
Try sticking to an inward curve like on the left side.

Shoes with no socks...is that the look you're going for?
I'm no fashion expert but it seems like some high-tops or boots would be more fitting.

Tiny edit (rushed at work) with more intimidating mask and different ramp (cool to warm) for the green hair:

« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 04:25:33 am by Decroded »

Offline Tourist

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 03:19:47 am
I agree with the others so far. 

Move the title up some, so that the center of the title is about 1/3 down the frame. 

Bring the girl forward and make her larger.  She should extend beyond the white railing instead of being limited by it.  John William Godward would typically line up the break between background and sky with the collar of his figures (linked for size):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Godward_Idleness_1900.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Godward-In_the_Days_of_Sappho-1904.jpg

If you use a similar arrangement, the head and hands break up the horizontal line of the railing, and the arms lift up towards the title, which is the most important bit. 

You'll probably want to add near the left edge of the image as well, that part is looking a little empty.  Nothing really eye catching, perhaps some sort of framing element to prevent the eye from wandering off the left side of the page.

Hope this helps,
Tourist

Edit: Got the name wrong, it's John William Godward , not Edward Godward.  D'oh!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 03:42:55 am by Tourist »

Offline Decroded

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 12:59:27 pm
Interesting reference Tourist.
Its funny because I made this edit at work earlier and did alot of the things you mention including, initially because it felt empty, then arranged it there because I felt it was needed but I didn't know why lol.
Then realised it trained the eye toward the center character.  :lol:

Excuse the blurring I scaled in photoshop and didn't know how to turn it off  :-[


I felt SOMETHING was needed in the background besides clouds.
I'd probably go further and add some interesting things in the background.
For example find space for a wall that has some posters on it with in-jokes or personal references.
A plane and/or helicopter.
King kong goin nuts on top of a building?  :lol:

Everything is all in layers in a .psd file if you want to play around with the composition.
I'd link you now but my Dropbox didn't sync for some reason  :mean:

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 02:01:37 pm
Wow, thanks for all the C+C guys! Sorry I didn't swing back with a response yesterday, I got half caught up in gaming for the holiday and half Photoshop wanting to crash on me every ten minutes and it kinda burnt me out in the evening. (Anyone know how to fix the problem where your hotkeys stop working unless you restart PS?)

I should have clarified a little more on my goals and what the person I'm making this for wants. They make very nasty, dirty, dark techno kind of stuff (there might be a better name for that type of genre) and wanted an album cover that is the complete opposite of that, bright happy colors, sunshine, hugs and smiles.  ;D From there they wanted a handful of fighting game-esqe characters almost like a title screen or a splash poster with one character being the Machine Girl which has a dress, gimp mask, pigtails, and a pentagram either on the mask or shirt (I didn't think I could really get that much detail on a mask) and the others being some mix of standard fighter tropes and wackiness ala Marvel vs. Capcom. That said I'm sorry I should have talked a bit more about the goals of the project but I'm going to be handing a handful of additional characters other than just the Machine Girl though I definitely agree that she should be the focal point right after the name.

I think I was just mashing at it so long recently that I forgot some regular concepts like getting rid of the jaggies and working on a better composition before I plop a bunch of characters in there. So I took a shot at hitting the jaggies which I didn't realize would be such an issue til I realized the weird shapes I made with the style so it took a little longer than I would have liked/isn't exactly perfect, but I feel like I got a lot of the curves fixed up at least. I also brought in the blue tint like adcrusher suggested though I didn't go as far into the tinny blues.



Then I started with the anti aliasing but I'm not exactly sure if I like it that clean if that makes any sense? Or maybe I should just use it sparingly where the jaggies are still looking awkward only to keep a bit of those hard edges haphazard almost like a child drawing look. Partially AA'd version:



Got some free time at work edit:

I'm not really happy with how the Machine Girl came out, I was kinda testing out poses and stuff and I guess it didn't come out quite like I envisioned it. I really want her striking some sort of wacky pose though. I may go back to the drawing board with the design for her in general but I'm not sure yet. I have some ideas to make the shirt into more of a whole dress and combine it with more of the blue or I may go with more of the anime schoolgirl style like Decroded mentioned. The pigtail color doesn't feel all that good to me, I might switch it to a pink or a purple so it looks less like leaves coming out of her head like someone had mentioned. At one point it was basically just leaves coming out of her head then I moved some shading around and it still came out wrong. Tonight when I get home I'm going to take pen to her and see if I can get some skeletons for other characters together.

Decroded, I really like the idea of adding a bit more to the background, I was considering it but was worried about overdoing it but with your edit I see some simple buildings/skyline or something can definitely be beneficial. I may also go after your thicker looking grass, I definitely battled with the grass a bit and it's nice to see a fresh look on it. Also where'd you get that cool looking garbage can? :D

Looks like I got a lot of work ahead of me this week, I'll be back later on!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 06:41:48 pm by Wanyo »
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Offline jams0988

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 02:22:25 am
Quote
Her outfit reminded me of anime school girl, but the skirt is too long to suit the style.
This created a sort of conflict for me but maybe thats what you're going for
Actually, long school skirt + wooden sword + surgical mask is classic Japanese/anime shorthand for deliquent bully girls. If she's supposed to be a badass, the long skirt fits in a cool retro-y way, I think. The first thing I thought when I saw her long skirt and mask was "ah, a Japanese gangster girl," hahah! =)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukeban)

The first cog is a little hard for me to read. I read it as a cartoony anime skull at first! Maybe try having a few different sized gears connected together to make it more obvious what they are? The other thing is that judging by the size of the gear, it should be sticking out of the top of the logo quite a bit. It might be by stylistic choice that you made it disappear into the logo, but it makes it look like the gear isn't round. Again, a few smaller gears instead of the one large one might work well, too.

I like Decroded's edit moving her closer to the camera/making her larger. It doesn't feel like she's trapped by the railing anymore.

Overall, I really like the picture. Great color palette and background, and the Machine Girl has some character to her!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 03:35:28 am by jams0988 »

Offline Decroded

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 07:29:38 am
Jams, thanks for the info I never heard of Sukeban.
My cog is clearly a rush-job but it should be recognisable enough with some squarer line-work, tweaking size and colours etc.
It shouldn't take priority over the text though.

Wanyo, always provide as much information about what you are doing at the start.
Some of us have low-level psychic ability but its often not reliable and requires more time and energy :crazy:

Photoshop problem sounds painful.
As unpleasant as it may be, try uninstall the whole thing and install a newer version?
My CS5 runs solid with occasional Wacom driver crash that fixes itself after a few seconds anyway so no big disrutions.


Good to hear you want more happening in the background.
The contrasting themes makes for a great idea.
I hope they've given you enough time to develop this further.

My advice:
Forget about jaggies and focus on composition first.
Don't get into detail on anything in particular at this stage.
Sketch everything roughly on separate layers so you can move it all around.
Make pointers and notes about what is what if its too rough to see.
Rough out a few scenes and develop the best one/s.

Things like flowers, rainbows sunshine etc. help create initial happy feeling. Warmer colours and higher saturation makes the viewer see these first which is probably where you want to start this. You can tweak this later so it doesn't take priority over the main character.

You could add some more disturbing images in the background for contrasting themes.
Using tools such as less contrast and saturation to lower their visual priorty, the eye will naturally read these things AFTER the foreground items. This adds a dimension that keeps the viewer entertained for much longer and you don't need to stress about visual clutter.
Think of ideas to make the background interesting. For example you have permission to have my avatar eating something he probably just found in the trash can haha :crazy:
Cute kids doing something naughty.
Barely visible sign for an adult book store in the background.
These kind of images seem to fit the idea for me but obviously you need to clear these ideas with the band.
A brick wall in mid-ground covered with old posters is classic arcade fighting game stuff, a cheap and easy way out to add some additional references, messages or shout-outs.
Look at this image by Fool for example, there's alot going on so you can look at it for ages:


For the main character as jams said, increase the length of the skirt as it just looks weird being neither short nor long right now.
Look at references and use key identifiers such as the red neck ties to make her recognisable.
Bringing her forward you should be able to squeeze a little pentagram on there if you want. Perhaps you could draw the lines across the entire mask rather than a small one on her forehead.
I got bored so made this example though obviously you can improve it, curve the lines around the forms of the mask, add a mouth grill or whatever:


Offline Wanyo

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 04:27:35 am
Well I was hoping to have more time to work on this before today but...life happens I guess? On the bright side/down side I didn't have my regular day job today so I put some serious time into roughing out some character ideas and shapes and messing with a few ideas(don't mind the crazy colors, just used large contrasts to get a lot of the shapes together). I also started messing around with background ideas, kinda wanted to get some water in there because a nice body of water always makes me happy. I have some more fun ideas for the BG like planes, boats, whatever crazy stuff pops into my mind.



I still might make Machine Girl a little larger even but I'm much happier with this pose than the crazy half "praise the sun" I had going on before.

Jams: I never knew about the Sukeban symbol, that's awesome that I was accidentally halfway there. I was definitely on the right path then, haha! I definitely prefer the longer skirt regaurdless, it just feels more tough/badass to me.

I definitely plan on doing something still with the gear, it's the most feedback I've gotten that it's hard to read at first glance. (though ironically everyone still calls it a gear when referring to it being hard to read) It's a bit odd but I'm a bit attached to making it weird & cartoony. I might have to try the multi-gear approach, I kinda like how it fits into the lower corner too, but I'm thinking it's too large in general and I'm hoping bringing the size down will help with the balance of it.

Decroded: I'm a bit worried about my time constraints, I think I need to get it done this week for him to launch his album but I'm definitely going to cram as much extra stuff in as I can, like you said I need to fully flesh out the important parts first.

I like the idea for the mask too, I'm going to have to give that a shot.

And for my Photoshop issue, re-installing it is on the list of things to do, but too many deadlines this week when it's just a minor annoyance in the grand scheme of things.

I think I post these things when I'm way too sleep deprived, though that seems to be the name of the game with taking on too many projects at once. Sorry always for everything not being 100% coherent or not having enough information.
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Offline Wanyo

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 04:41:50 pm
I realized I forgot to come back across this topic with what I came up with to fill the piece all out. Things still aren't finalized on his end so maybe with some luck I can come back across this and give it a few more runs of changes. Thanks again everybody for the help! <3

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Offline Decroded

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 10:53:43 pm
I still dont like how background characters compete with primary subject for visual priority, play with hues and saturation and contrast perhaps.
also too many poses leading the eye out of the sides instead of creating a rebounding focal point.

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 01:18:42 am
Hmm yes I see what you're saying, I was thinking more like a wave pushing the view out from the center but in the end I think it makes it more confusing for the eyes. The client wanted things really intense and vibrant but I think I took it a little too far and it hurt the comp too like you ere saying.
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Offline Decroded

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 03:19:28 am
Several ways to create intensity such as movement and repetition.
 Im amature in this area but u its worth doing a bit of reading about composition (sorry on my phone so no references handy) and how you can control the priority of one or more focal points.
Ive only glanced through material so I went for simple diagnal lines that point directly into the centre in my edit.
this perspective adds some grandure and intensity too to have all these lines radiating from her.
from there I would have added a few key things happening in the background, some kind of catastrophe or something.
plan out a scene and compose the elements around the place instead of dumping a bunch of similar sized and too-evenly spaced characters all into the same depth range as ur primary subject.
mixing the depths your elements allows u to use atmospheric perspective and shifts in lighting as well as size to control priority and ultimately lead the eye around the garden path and back to where it started if u want to...

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Machine Girl Album Cover [WIP][C+C]

Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 04:16:59 pm
Two things I have to mention here

first it don't really looks like a group-image. The characters feel totally unrelated to each other, they don't interact and are all seperated from each other so all of them have nearly the same visual priority. you could cluster some of them together to achieve a smaller area of detail which makes the composition a lot easier to grasp.

Second thing is that I feel all of them are standing on a bridge like the one in the bg (blue arrow), the composition lines (red) which i drew in should usually hit a point at the horizon line, which means that the whole thing feels (at least to me) really off in terms off perspective

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